desertrat77

Excellent!

"You play like you practice." Though you are less likely to need a certain item in town, the scouts should get in the habit of packing it anyway. Even if it isn't used, the extra weight will aid with conditioning. I've found my tarp to very handy to sit on during lunch in the park. Or a nap. I've noticed a trend lately, urban or rural: if it's raining, life stops and everyone is huddled under something. Immobile. Life goes on and so do hikes. Don the poncho and keep hiking. Exception: lightning.

This has the feel of waiting for another shoe to fall....

Excellent points. I think the reason is twofold. Things have gone from bad to worse. Also, I think the management style at Irving TX isn't very efficient on any given day, and even less so in a crisis.

@Eagle1993, I concur.

@TheLatinScot, Clarification: my uniform isn't frumpy. Far from it. Longtime scout and scouter, 30 years active duty military, former JROTC instructor. I know how to wear a uniform. I'm well aware of the psychology behind uniforming. I'm referring to how others view it, ie, the general public and other scout/scouters. The geegaws and such: there are too many authorized patches and extraneous stuff that can be put on the uniform. Not to mention the array of clutter that is put on the uniform that isn't authorized but folks do it anyway. This may appeal to some folks, particu

"But, scouts first need a program of experiences to develop an opinion, then they can express their pride." The longer someone is part of the organization, they'll become immune to legitimate flaws and deflect any criticisms of the organization. Some scouts may follow your philosophy. But not many. Take a look at big crowds of scouts and scouters in 2019. Lots of half measures and foot dragging. The uniform is not a mystical thing handed down to us "by the gods." It's the result of human endeavor and if they missed the mark, so be it. While I never criticize the BSA uniform

Barry, that was quite inspirational. I think you described "institutionalization" to the letter

I agree with @dkurtenbach As retired military, my observations about uniforms: - People will eagerly wear a uniform they are proud of - People will readily comply with uniform regulations that make sense and are not a bunch of "thou shalt nots" Granted, the military must wear the "uniform of the day" or suffer consequences. But looking back over three decades, there were certain unpopular uniforms that folks tried every which way not to wear if they were the UOD. The BSA uniform is an overpriced, frumpy, dumpy looking thing, designed by a committee of hand-selected g

As a former JROTC instructor, I'm all for this. There are scouts that will thrive in a unit like this. And more than ever, the military needs young men and women who are mentally and physically able to serve.

I'm getting to that point. My Venture daughter is off to college. Now that the leaders/outdoorsy types are all in college or moved away, the crew we are associated with doesn't want to do anything more adventurous than stare at their cell phones during meetings (if they show up at all). I'm also working at the district level but finding it less and less fulfilling. In addition to the raised fees, the deal breaker for me is National's quest to transform the entire BSA into one big Tiger Cub den. I'll always be grateful to the BSA for what I've experienced as a scout and scouter,

@hertfordnc, welcome to scouter.com!

Richard, on the other side of the coin, scoutmasters in the '20s didn't have to wade through a morass of poorly written publications from National, as is the case in 2019. Also, they didn't have to contend with constant/needless changes, program dilution, hand-wringing and micromanagement from National. Indeed, times were simpler.

Your council meeting matches my experiences as well: the BSA refuses to acknowledge its abysmal administrative practices and IT systems.

I agree Matt, the scouts would have really benefited. Alas, adventures like these are routinely quashed by hand-wringing adults who tend to view all scouts as cubs, regardless of age or capability.

@qwazse, I'm tracking with you. Hadn't thought of the situation in that light. I figured the Mustangs would get a small sample of Philmont and then count down the days till they could come back as a crew member. Or become a staff member. Given the dynamics you've mentioned, plus the unwelcoming tone that seems prevalent in the BSA today, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them leave the confines of the BSA for other trails.

As mentioned earlier, the camping HQ side of Philmont hosted over 24,000 trek participants. Here's a link and a quick sample of the summer of 2019: " The most popular spot for Crews to pick up meals in the Backcountry was Baldy Town, which distributed nearly 60,000 meal bags to 12,335 Participants." That was Baldy Town alone! "Grand Central Station" comes to mind. More data at https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/philmont-by-the-numbers/ While I don't have the PTC data, I've heard that the family adventure numbers were quite low. So I ask again: how are a dozen or so

@walk in the woods, your points are sound. Tooth Ridge trail, one way, is enough to tucker out a 7 year old, much less boulder up the Tooth and then take Tooth Ridge trail back. It can physically and mentally zap an older kid or parent as well. Anecdotally, I understand the family adventure numbers were quite low this summer. Much lower than hoped for. On the trek side of Philmont, over 24K advisors and crew members participated in a trek, 12 day, 7 day, cavalcade, etc. If there is a slight silver lining, I think the odds of a trekker having his/her adventure diminished are small

If scouters have concerns about family scouting, that's one thing. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I was in a small council where I saw it work, a full decade before it was officially authorized. But everyone understood the boundaries and I didn't see where it detracted from the overall scouting experience. But not every place is like that. And parenting "styles" have changed a great deal over time, and not for the better. I'm the last person who would willingly serve as an advocate for National's watering down of the outdoor program. But the PTC Mustangs are not part of the

Serious question: what could these kids possibly do that would detract from a trekker's experience? Aren't we trying to encourage more youth to embrace outdoor adventure? Restricting these kids to popsicle stick arts/crafts in base camp isn't going to keep them engaged. Plus Philmont is a big place. Letting them spend 24 hours in the backcountry at a staff camp isn't going to hurt anyone.

But this isn't family camping. It's a group of 11 - 13 year olds on an overnight campout at a Philmont staff camp. If I recall correctly, PTC staffers, rangers or ranger-types, accompany them. Mom/dad are back at the PTC.

So the youth in the picture pass your crew on the trail. Or spend the night in the neighboring campsite. What are the potential negative impacts on your Philmont experience? Edited to add: Mustangs are 11 - 13, and if memory serves, they are accompanied on their overnight by PTC staffers, not mom and dad.

These "tents" are on the PTC campus, not on the camping headquarters side of the ranch. Rest assured, trek participants are still residing in standard issue BSA wall tents with cots when they are in base camp, trailbound and homebound. No electricity or other amenities. PTC and CHQ are two entirely different worlds.

If not the actual cost of the uniform, it's the quality one receives for the dollar spent. Real or perceived, many view the BSA uniform as ill fitting, poorly styled, poor quality, and low value for the dollar spent.

@Samuel, many moons ago, I recall scouts could sew MBs on the front and back. Once the sash is full, I'm not sure. I've seen photos of hybrid sashes, two or perhaps more tailored together. I don't think there is a right answer given the rarity of the situation. Truly unchartered territory....