walk in the woods

OK, so a minor hijack but along the same lines. My son's Court of Honor is next month. Do I go as Dad or Scoutmaster? I've asked him but haven't gotten a response yet. I'm leaning towards Dad because that's my favorite role.

I think I'd skip the medal with "civilian" wear. However, a NESA Eagle lapel pin would probably be appropriate.

I ask my MC's to consider uniforms for Boards of Review and especially Eagle Boards of Review. I just think it reinforces the uniform for the scout. But, it's not a hill I choose to die on. For the OP, I'd go with one CM uni as has been suggested unless I had the money for the second uni. Not a fan of Velcro.

People have different set points for reference. My reference/set point for bad food came in the mid-80s on an aircraft carrier in the Pursian Gulf. There was no bad food at the Jamboree . Separately, the maps and distances between locales was published months in advance. There was a required video to watch when you registered that talked about the terrain and IIRC specifically talked about the ridge at the staff camps. IMHO, nobody has reason to say they were surprised by the terrain. Worst case, people who cared could get free topo maps from google maps to check out the terrain themselves.

My grandma used to tell me I could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar . The answer to why are cub scouts and venturing crews picking up the scout oath and law is that it is consistent with the mission of the BSA which is to install the values of the Scout Oath and Law in the participants. It's many things but hardly stupid. FWIW, I don't believe there is an organization called the Girl Scouts of America. There is an organization called the Girl Scouts of the USA; they are a totally separate organization than the BSA. The only thing they share are the name scouts and America.

BD, we did Dippin' Dots (the ice cream of the future) for a few years around Independence Day events. Our small town volume wasn't enough to make the risk worth the reward. That said, what we did have sold well. It was a little expensive ($4 - $5/pouch and we made $1 - $2 per sale) and you need electricity to keep the freezer's running. If you can do volume (500 - 1000 units/day) it might be worth your while to explore. We did water and canned soda at the same time. It was shameless.

I figure that even for the Eagle-driven kids I get at least a few years to plant the seeds of servant leadership, personal development, etc. What they see as a check box today (As a first class scout complete 6 service hours.....) might grow into something bigger down the line. Regardless of what happens when they are 18, we never really get to see the results of our work until the "boys" are much older.

When I have set up these o-courses, I've basically given the boys a topo map to a local forest preserve with a set of points marked on the map that they have to visit. They have to figure out where they currently are located on the map, orient, and then pick the best trails to reach the individual points. I normally have some sort of stake at each point with a quiz question, skill requirement or game token they have to collect to prove they were there. I use the gpsxchange.com website to get topos without trail markings. Anyway, while I think your idea makes for a great outing, I'm still not convinced it meets the spirit of the requirement for teaching outdoor skills. Maybe there is a local orienteering club who could give you some ideas for more challenging hikes.

GPSr's don't kill people, just the fools running them . Especially the road GPSrs. Side note, was in northern MI (lower peninsula) this summer with an older GPS in the car. Ran into some unexpected road construction. Consulted my handy road atlas and constructed a new route. About a mile after we headed out on that route my GPS was perfectly happy to steer me onto an unimproved US Forest Service road, complete with sign saying this road is not maintained.

It's a recipe for burnout. My pack was/is about the same size. I was the CC for a number of years and filled in as CM a few times in voids. IMHO, nobody can do both for long and do both well. If you do work both positions, will your parents step up to run the Blue&Gold or Pinewood Derby or refreshments for a pack meeting?

Well, this will get me in trouble but here goes. If your COR has this policy, and you are informing new members of it directly and in advance of joining, then shame on the new leaders who refuse to attend mass. If they are going to balk at the requirement then the honorable thing for them to do would be to find a different unit to join even if that meant driving to a different town. . What would the alternative be for your troop if you didn't mandate attendance? Would your unit leave camp on Saturday night so that the Catholic scouts could attend services in the home parish? BSA membership shouldn't be a driving force of your unit or COR core values. You will and have undoubtedly lost scouts to the policy. So what. The issue for your unit to decide is if mass attendance is a core value. If it is, then keep doing what you are doing. I suspect the folks that balk don't stay in the unit long anyway.

Your OA candidates are required to do their ordeal in their own lodge. If the lodge only offers to run ordeals at summer camp then you have to do it there. Now, our lodge runs ordeals at our fall and spring fellowships as well as summer camp. For summer camp we also allow for candidates to come to camp just for the ordeal. The OA can't force your unit to go to camp anywhere, but, they do control where and how they hold the ordeal. Remember, the OA Lodge's reason for being is to promote camping AND provide service to your council.

The Navy Seals were at Jambo. I think the precedent is already set. If he's willing to fill out the app to be a MB counselor I'd say go for it.

Yeah, well, pluses and minuses to everything I suppose. Are you in an area where you can take advantage of outside outfitters for HA experiences? What sort of resources are available to exploit? I think the chances of being everything to everybody is probably slim and likely to result in only mediocre program for everybody. Our council camp is adamantly campsite cooking. There are troops who attend because of that and those that refuse to attend because of it. That's the way it is. If your camp focuses on high adventure to much you'll lose scouts wanting to work on advancement. If your camp focuses on advancement too much you'll lose scouts that want a HA program. Finding a balance results in people complaining camp was too vanilla or too hard or too easy or whatever. I guess the question is what does your summer camp want to be known for? I do like the levels of skill idea. It's similar to what was done at Jambo in the adventure areas.

FWIW, I thought the BSA leadership spent a fair amount of time promoting Venturing at every gathering at Jambo. The Venturing President was on stage with the OA National Chief. They made sure to welcome Scouts, Scouters and Venturers with every announcement. I don't recall if it was Perry, Brock or Stephensen that said something to the effect of Welcome Venturers, we built this place for you.

One has to be a registered member of the BSA to be a dues paying member of the Order. Venturers can maintain their OA membership, they just can't be elected from that unit. Like Venturing, the OA considers a member a youth until they hit 21 years old. It gets really complicated when you have a 19 YO ASM who suddenly turns into a 19 YO Youth at the OA Fellowship. My understanding is at the last NOAC they had bunking arrangements based on three age ranges (less than 18, 18 to 21 and greater than or equal to 21) then also by gender.

An interesting supposition, but, our last several lodge chiefs and lodge officers have been very capable HS and older young men. Venturing age but stayed in Boy Scouts. They came up through the ranks as Boy Scouts and served their lodge with distinction. Our last lodge chief was elected section chief. The venture crews in our area can't camp with the most experienced boy scouts. Maybe that's not true for your crew, I hope it's not. Even National, after the Summit Shakedown in 2012, noted in their after action report that we can't assume Venturers know how to camp. Co-ed membership, maybe that's a benefit, maybe not. Most of the time I witness co-ed scouting events I see otherwise capable young men turned into distracted idiots . Venturing has such a wide set of options I think you might have trouble saying they have more high adventure experience. Again, in my district there are several troops that run HA programs every year, BWCA, Glacier Backpacking, etc. The crews in my district, not so much. Even if Venturing is about High Adventure, the OA isn't. The OA is about Service. So, I'll repeat my question. How is allowing Venturing elections going to support the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?

I am so totally with you on the horizontal display of the flag. Gak. I also prefer the U.S. Flag out in front when marching with multiple flags but I think it's permissible to still have it march on the right. I'd have to dig out my docs .

Well, FWIW, the OA was designed and is an honor society of Boy Scout campers. One of the goals is to use the program as a way to keep older Boy Scouts engaged with their Troop and their Council camps. Let's review the perfect world strategy here. A young man joins a troop at age 11. He spends a year or so working on T21 requirements, probably spends his second year at summer camp before he becomes eligible to stand for a fall or spring election. Maybe he gets elected, probably not, spends a third year at summer camp mentoring younger scouts. Stands for election again gets elected by his peers. Now there is a hook to keep him coming back to his summer camp. Instead of being focused on advancement, he gets to be focused on cool older-scout stuff. Building ceremonial fires, being a ceremonialist, working on camp projects, being the generally cool HS kids that the older kids look up to. So, we know you support electing venturers, but that's not good enough to illicit a change. If you want to see things change then explain how electing venturers to the OA is going to supporting the mission of the OA and improve my lodge?

Yeah, I have a different read on the tea leaves there young grasshopper . I suspect by incorporating the oath, law, etc. the BSA is actually setting the program up to turn the Boy Scouts into the middle-school program of scouting (focusing on the T21 requirements, citizenship, service, etc.) and Venturing (including Sea Scouts) into the HS program (focused on experiential learning/High Adventure, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised when the new recognition system comes out to see it include a pillar that basically incorporates Star/Life/Eagle along side the other awards for those former Boy Scouts that want to finish that line. In doing so they'll end the need for the Varsity program and make it easier to also support Sea Scouts by including them as an option for 14 year olds to join.

That's cool.

Well, I suppose one of the things the military has is the UCMJ. Screw up, go see the old man, give back some money, stripes, etc. Spend a few days on bread and water in the brig. In the armed forces you sign the contract, take the oath, and there are consequences. In scouting we don't inflict consequences very often. Since we don't require a uniform to participate, people don't respect the uniform. Since we don't require attendance at meetings/events to participate (aside from 10 events to advance) people make it a lower priority than sports, band, etc. that do require participation to get a grade. Scoutmasters who refuse to sign a scout spirit/SM conference for lack of participation get crucified as a gatekeeper. I could be full of it though. More than a few have accused me of that. .

Hmmmm, WV National Guard training exercise, helicopters flying at all hours of the day, clearly this guy is onto something!

I generally agree with qwazse's answer. Family camping for our units is less program structured and more fellowship structured. Family camping isn't limited to Cub Scouts though. It's an option for all the program levels, at least according to the definitions in the GTSS. FWIW: "Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply." Pack Overnighters are structured Cub Scout events. Not sure I agree with 00Eagle that Pack Overnighter's generally require 1:1 youth to parent attendance. The GTSS says " In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult." At one point my council issued guidance that the ratio of cubs:responsible adult should be no more than 3:1 or something like that. Can't find it right now though so maybe they rethought that publication. That's my $0.02 or so. Sorry to be quoting the book and all.

I have to admit I enjoyed seeing the international scouts at Jambo walking around in their t-shirts and neckers. It kind of grew on me.