walk in the woods

FrankScout. I don't doubt that's true. I am an admittedly small sample size. That said, 6 buses out to Jambo, 6 buses back, 3 failures along the way for our contingent. They won't be on my short list if I ever need to charter another bus for something .

Thanks for the info. So are you using the PC then as your only method to prep water or will you be filtering first?

Dan, thanks for the great feedback. I hadn't heard that the issues at the bmx track were at the same point on the track. That would be a point of concern though. I did have one of the staffers from the A basecamp medical tell me they were seeing more issues from the skateboard park than the bmx track.

I think if you also controlled for the risk appetite of the parents that let their kid attend Jambo and the risk appetite of the kids willing to strike out across the country to attend a Jambo and that .2%/year might be a little low .

Well, maybe based on this discussion, I was privileged to witness honor in action this past weekend. A young man in my troop is working on his Eagle project. He is a baseball player at the HS and his project is coordinating the rebuild of the dugouts at the HS baseball field. Saturday was the work day to lay the blocks for the dugouts. He invited the troop and the baseball team. At 7am when the masons were ready to start laying block the troop was there and a venturer from the young man's Jambo Crew was also there (after an hour drive). We laid block for about 2 hours when the baseball team showed up with the coaches. The team and the coaches putzed around the infield for a while doing anything but hauling blocks. We all ate lunch at noon, then the baseball team and coaches dispersed. I had a couple of adults comment on the work ethic of the scouts helping out their fellow scout. Is that honor? It certainly looked the part to me. Not that I'm proud or anything of my boys .

I recently had a brief (techonology-driven) "conversation" with a friend I served with all those years ago. He posted a picture or something musing about leadership. Now my friend rose to the highest enlisted rank in the Navy and served 20+ years. He's a deputy sheriff now in his home county. We decided the basis for good leadership is to "show up and give a damn." Obviously there's more too it than that but hopefully your young man that rose to crew chief has some of that work ethic instilled in him. Sounds like it to me.

I think Honor has to be more than just trustworthiness. I think you can be trustworthy (i.e. do what you say you are going to do) without being honorable (e.g. to be revered for the quality of your overall character). When we say "On my Honor..." were not just giving our word, we're pledging our entire character to the oath. I've been struggling to think of an example. This one is poor but starts toward the point. A trustworthy man, if he found a wallet in the street, would turn it over to the police or maybe attempt to contact the owner, all without taking any advantage of the situation. If the owner was never found and he got the wallet back, he might keep the money for some personal gain. An honorable man would go the extra mile to ensure the owner was found. He'd hound the police if he ended up turning the wallet over to them. If in the end the owner was never located he'd donate the proceeds to a charity. That doesn't quite hit the nail on the head for me but it's close.

So, I have understood that most of the biologicals in water die after about 165 degrees F. Boiling just insures the entire column is at or above that temp. Is there something I'm missing that would require the extra few degrees from a pressure cooker? Or are you thinking the extra heat would drive out any volitale chemicals? Not criticizing, just curious if I've missed something.

Thanks for the feedback. I think in regards to the world changing or scouting changing the answer is both. I wonder sometimes if what we are reaping today was sowed in the me-first mentality of the 60s and 70s. It is my personal opinion that our society has shifted from one based on the common good to one based on the individual good. That leads us down the path toward an excessive individualism instead of a collective belonging. No don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating some socialist agenda. I'm all for personal responsibility and individualism. I just believe that people who really are responsible and quality individuals can intentionally subjugate their wants to the collective needs. Again, my person opinion, the scouts are suffering here from the same issues that currently effect the American Legion and every other membership-based service organization I'm aware of. As the older members die off, there are no younger members to step up to take their place. Joining an organization where the individual needs are subjugated to the common good requires a selflessness that is sorely lacking in today's society. I wonder sometimes if the all-volunteer military will be able to survive the cultural mindset change. FWIW, I'm just a guy trying to get along so I won't be posting any scholarly articles to defend my opinions, they are just my observations. To your original question, could scouts benefit from a more militaristic mind-set, probably. But, that only works if the good of the unit comes before the good of the individual. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

And exactly why were you disappointed there wasn't something big go wrong? You were looking for catastrophic problems because.....?

I'm not sure the risk/reward works for me but that's me. There is a troop at the summer camp we've attended that shows up in a church bus with a van pulling their trailer. They bring 30 or 40 kids every year. It sure looks easier than having to wrangle 8 or 10 drivers to make that happen for them. They travel 5 or 6 hours to the camp so I can't imagine many folks being willing to drive to drop and then drive to pick up. As far as charter services go, our bus to Jambo broke down both ways. Transmission problem on the way out (vacuum line) and blown tire on the way back. The other buses in the contingent rescued us or we'd have spent the night in Indiana. Knowing the maintenance record of a bus might be better than trusting a company concerned about profit and gross margin. Just sayin.

So Stosh, just for clarification, what end-game do you have in mind? Are you suggesting we should re-institute drill, h2h combat training, PT, etc. Or are you just thinking we need to relax our attitude about camo pants? FWIW, I observed a number of scouts at the Brownsea Island display at Jambo. The lifesaving drill, whale harpoon game and the stave-combat stations were all very popular with the scouts. Survival skills sure but clearly a military bias as well. That said I'm sure marching and drilling wouldn't be terribly popular. I'm also struggling a little bit to think about how we'd incorporate citizenship training without the military edge of some of our program. The flag ceremonies, flag retirements, saluting, color guards, etc. are a huge part of that Aim. If we moved away from the military edge would citizenship training suffer or would it become more of a progressive looking program? FWIW, I'm a Navy vet, 81 - 87. I appreciate the work President Reagan did to change the perceptions of America's Armed Forces after the problems of the 70s. I'm also the son of a vet (USAF 56 - 60) and an Eagle Scout. My Scoutmaster was a WWII vet and landed in France on D-Day. I stand when the flag goes by because of them and those that continue to serve. Being a scout reinforced citizenship for me. I'm not sure many scouts today have the same influence I enjoyed as a youth. Anyway, I'm curious to know what end-game you have in mind.

Or this, http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/07/31/207319883/want-to-be-a-morning-person-take-a-few-tips-from-campers?ft=1&f=1001.

Never been to Disney World I take it .

I'll echo Qwazse in a sense that if you can't find God in the woods you ain't looking. From a more secular perspective, connecting boys to the woods is my attempt to give them an appreciation for the wild places. And the opportunity to keep them wild rather than civilize them. I believe too many folks see places without cell connections as wrongs to be righted rather than special plays to be revered.

No need to wonder BD, it's been coming for a while I fear.

Then you must have missed the memo. It was scheduled for community service from the get go. The entire MOPDOS was coordinated with the Citizens Conservation Corp of West Virginia. I have to say it was a good experience for my Troop. They are all from the western suburbs of Chicago. It was good for them to see just how things work in rural and poor areas. I think it worked towards character development just fine.

I find the adult line hopping curious. I'd be interested to know where it happed as the only place adults were allowed to participate was in the Summit Center. The outlying activity areas were youth only. Early in the first week all the canopy tour lines were limited to curriculum ticket holders both in the action area and in the Summit Center. The zip lines in the center were jammed as much due to lightning and weather as anything.

It reminded me of being in the Navy . You learn how to get relative clean very quickly!

I'll echo the comments about the waste. We were told the quantities were determined by a dietician staff to meet the caloric needs of 40 people in that environment. I'm not sure how many calories they were planning for scouts to consume but certainly more than 2000 per day. Most meals we had leftovers. We staged the non-perishables in one of our pods to supplement any meals scouts struggled with. Breakfasts: I thought the hot breakfasts were fairly satisfying. Pancakes, bacon, sausage, eggs, etc. We got one of those every other day. The cold breakfasts were less satisfying but plenty filling. We always had milk left over and juice. Lunches: The boys complained about getting "snacks" for lunch. The lunches were quite similar to the Philmont meals we received at SummitCorp in 2011. A couple of Philmont trek vets confirmed they were similar. Usually one simple protein and numerous starches/sugars in every meal along with some drink mixes. Too high in sodium for my taste but basically a calorie dump to get the scouts through until dinner. Dinner: I found most all of the dinners palatable and filling. Certainly the processed factor is there but given the logistics I'm not sure how we'd have done much differently. The meals were easy to prepare and clean up from because of the use of the steam tables and pre-cooked foods. We had a few scouts spending money on pizza and fries in the summit center saying they were hungry. But, we also had leftovers. So, I'm not sure how much of their hunger was lack of food driven and how much was seeking comfort food. One other thought. After the complaining about the food when we stopped for meals on the road the boys all ran to McD's or similar. I'm not sure if it's an indictment on youth or society in general but clearly the choice of my 36 charges.

Well, there are a couple of polygamist law suits working through the courts. They are picking up and using the same rhetoric as the gay-marriage movement. Now that DOMA is dead, that definition is left to the states. If what people do in their private bedrooms is private, and of no regard to the state, should they not be entitled to all the rights, privileges and responsibilities as heterosexual and homosexual couples? Why should family be defined as two adults and children? Why not three adults and children? As long as it's consensual and all.....

The one thing is the curriculum event, besides the Trek and the MODPOS, and the Sunday staff day off, the rest of the time is free-form. Activities are at the scout's selection.

Two thumbs way up for the single committee part, I'm also becoming more interested in the AHG model of one troop with the various age levels. I'm coming around on the Boy Scouts = MIddle School part with a forced migration to Venturing. If you're going to do that though I'd make Star - Eagle part of the venturing program.

Agreed. I've lost kids to 4H and had parents refuse to let their son join the troop without dropping 4H. One or the other, not both. Baseball used to be a spring sport in HS but now it's winter gym, spring practice, spring games, summer ball, fall ball. Same for golf, basketball, etc. Jr. High sports are close behind. Come to the HS coach's clinic or you won't play when you get here. FFA is big here, they start recruiting in Jr. High from the 4H crowd. But with spring/fall fundraisers, planting, harvest, annual convention, oratory/debate contests, and working the home farm, it's a full time commitment.

Not to be in defense but I will. The extra fee for the whitewater rafting and the technical climbing were announced in December or January. It was in the webinar notes posted on the bsajamboree website as well. It's unfortunate if your council didn't get the information out. We can assume whatever reason we want but the one I was given was the upcharge was used to pay the outfitters actually providing the service and rather than upcharge every participant, they upcharged those taking advantage of the activity. As for the clothing, your SM was using the criteria we were also given. BSA socks, shorts/pants, belt, scout t-shirt, scout hat as the activity uniform. Add the field uniform for the full "class-a." It hasn't been a secret in our council for many months. We even did coupons for the scout shop that ran from early November through mid-April to offset costs and build in time to spead the costs. If your contingent hasn't been communicating well that's unfortunate. I have to say though I've been emailing parents for months and I'm still taking the same questions and complaints and I'm about done.