acco40

Unfortunately in this red vs. blue state that our nation has become, even something that should be apolitical has become politicized. The author, if you read closely, does support the troops (I hope that all of our family members in harm's way return alive). He may misinterpret what the "yellow ribbon" symbolizes or maybe I do. For me, I have no bumper stickers, bracelets, etc. I choose to support in other ways - give $$ to AmVets, support BSA, vote, etc. Once again mankind has discovered that war is hell.

Is there a minimum effort expected? Yes, none. That is minimum effort is NOT expected. A Scout is expected to give his best effort on an Eagle project. "Best effort" and "minimal effort" are mutually exclusive.

Having a boy in Scouts who doesn't really want to be there for whatever reasons but is because his parents are deteremined that he make Eagle is a recipe for disaster. See if you can find out if that is the case. If so, you need to either convice his parents to back-off or convince the boy to step up. Good luck.

I've got a novel idea. Why not ask the Scout, during the BOR, if he feels he is "neat in appearance" and let him make the value judgement? My older son does things to try and please me. My younger son does things to try and "get my goat." Guess who is my favorite? Well, my younger son takes after me and my older son his mother. I guess that is why I married my wife! :-) Wearing an earing in and of itself is harmless. Wearing it for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of Mr. X at a BOR is not Scout like. Trying to figure out why a Scout is wearing an earing is dangerous territory that we should not waste our time in exploring.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Eamonn, do you have any information on the Scouting program championed by William Randolph Hearst that competed with what was to become the BSA for the "scout" term?

Exactly Eagledad - why not let the counselor counsel?

No amount of body shaping can change the material. My shirt collars all pill up and my legs don't like the synthetic material of the pants/shorts. I'd like to wear my neckerchief over the collar (yes, I know the collar should be rolled under) but the troop should be uniform and the majority like the under the collar look. Anyone have any experience with the cotton pants or shirt? I can order them but our local scout shop does not carry them. The Philmont shorts (made by Columbia?) are very popular with the staff and youth. I thought they were better made and were much cheaper. I have no idea where or by whom they were made. Iknow they are sold in the Philmont trading post but are only considered "quasi-official."

Someone from your son's troop should have the 2005 requirements book (Advancement Chair comes to mind). The rank and MB requirements may change every year and it is best that someone keep on top of it. If you son wants to earn a MB - tell the Scoutmaster who would then give your son contact information for a MB councilor(s). Your son would then call the counselor and let the counselor decide if it would be a good idea for your son to obtain the BSA MB pamphlet. My guess is that it would be a good idea. Not only troops, but your local library may be a good source too for the MB "books." Getting the requirements is easy and may be obtained on-line. Getting all the necessary information is a slightly more difficult task and the MB counselor should guide you on that task.

fgoodwin - I may be misinterpreting your statement: "Usually, all you see is the purple knot (and most boys, especially Cubs, don't even have that)." but the Cub Scouts may earn their religious award and wear the purple knot that represents that medal.

OGE, just to get this a little "off-topic" your comment about football players with MS and blind wrestlers, etc. I think a school MAY discriminate, to an extent, based on a physical disability. For instance, a kid on the high school football team MAY be the best QB (best arm, feet, decisions, etc.) but because of a past history of having his clock cleaned (i.e. concussions) he may be banned from playing in future games. By the way, I attended a Pinewood Derby as an FOS presenter/unit commissioner last weekend and talked with another guest - the elementary school principal. His school (oops, the school with which he serves as principal) is NOT the CO but about 98% of the Cub Scouts attend that school. He allows Cub Scout recruitment (and he alone, he doesn't consult the teachers) in the classroom if done "right" - i.e. brief and informative. We even hold the Scout Night at the school. The relationship is very good between the school and the unit.

First, remember there is the BSA and there is Scouting. One is local (America) and one is global. I'll take your questions at face value and assume you meant the BS of America only. Yes, the BSA used to be headquartered in the northeast. In 1911, the first Boy Scout national office was opened in New York (7 employees). In 1927 National office moved to 2 Park Avenue in New York. 1954 National office moves to New Jersey. In 1979 the National Headquarters moved to Irving, Texas (and I think it was partly because a fire destroyed the New Jersey offices?) As for policy changes or interpretations, the Scout Oath and Law include "morally straight" and "clean." It was only recently that the phase morally straight was interpreted as heterosexual. Same with clean. It can be argued that the issue was raised because of the current (last 10 years or less) legislation going on. The BSA DOES change with the times (regardless of the timeless values phrase). I think they will change on the homosexual issue before they change their religious stance (just a guess). To give a perspective on different BSA thoughts see below: 1930 The first woman was registered in the BSA in the New York Area Council as a Den Mother in March. 1972 Silver Fawn award discontinued (sort of a "female" Silver Beaver) 1973 Women allowed to become Cubmasters 1976 BSA allows women to attend Wood Badge 1976 Den Mother title dropped (yes men were den mothers, literature changed to den leaders) 1977 BSA's National Executive Board decides to admit women as leaders OTHER than Scoutmasters or Assistants, as WEBELOS Den Leaders or Assistants, or as Friends and Counselors to Lone Scouts. 1978 Revised God and Country program announced 1988 OA Chiefs decide to allow female Explorers and Exploring leaders to serve as Order of the Arrow members. 1989 BSA National Executive Board removed the "female exclusion" from Scouting totally, starting with the fall of 1989. (After winning a Supreme Court decision in favor of the policy excluding females.)

Sprinkle it with ground up little blue pills. ;-)

Cub parents, when your son crosses over to Boy Scouts, most like to remove any remnant of their Cub Scout stuff ASAP. Now, don't sew, tack or iron anything on your sons shirt. Webelos and for sure all Boy Scouts should do that themselves.(This message has been edited by acco40)

OGE, your statement begs the question - for a Scout with ADD/ADHD, who is the medication for, the Scout or the Troop?

At a Scouting function, it is always appropriate for a Scouter and a Scout to wear their uniform. For myself, I have a "Panamanian General" shirt that I may wear for certain occasions that has service stars, all of my "knots", Wood Badge beads, temporary patch, Jambo patch, etc. and one that simply has the "essentials" - council strip, unit number, position patch, etc. I would wear that one to my son's Eagle COH.

Welcome aboard. There are quite a few frequent posters to this forum and after a little monitoring you'll be able to see the hot buttons and get a feel for the personalities of most. As Eamonn wrote, certain topics are sure to get a heated response - religion, ACLU, uniform, etc. but trust us Bears, you can't go wrong there!

Trevorum, I respectfully disagree. In my area of suburbia a Cub Scout has about ten troops to choose from in a ten mile radius from his house. More units is NOT the answer. Better units is the answer. Some struggle to achieve critical mass (in my opinion a minimum of 36 Scouts - four patrols of eight, SPL, ASPL, QM and Scribe as a minimum. I've had a problem that I have Webelos Scouts who want to join our troop but the parents view it as more "commitment" that they don't want. Since the parents hold the keys ...

Lost Lake Scout Reservation - $200/$215 for early/normal registration. (Clinton Valley Council) Fee includes food (Sunday dinner, 3 squares MTWThF and Sat. breakfast), and everything else. There are no special fees for aquatic activities, climbing tower, canoeing, etc. The only "extra" fees are for supplies for specific merit badge courses (crafts and shooting sports for shotgun shells). Leaders $40 with 1 free per every 10 scouts approximately. Overall, I think it is a great bargain.

I don't want to sound anal but read my previous post - partially repeated below. They are not "guidelines" they are the rules. Granted, exceptions may be made in extreme cases but for most, the rules apply. IT WAS NEVER REQUIREMENTS based (ala Boy Scouts). The Tiger Cub program is for first-grade (or age 7) boys. The Wolf program is for boys who have completed first grade (or are age 8). The Bear rank is for boys who have completed second grade (or are age 9). The Webelos program is for boys who have completed third grade (or are age 10).

Fundraising may be done for materials, supplies, etc. This may include traditional stuff like lumber, nails, etc. but also feeding the workers, transportation expenses, etc. What the BSA does not want is Eagle projects that raise money for the sake of the Eagle project alone. For example, while worthy, a proposed Eagle project may be to donate $1,000,000.00 to the tsunami relief fund. The Life Scout could draw up a plan and show great leadership and organizational skills in managing such a project but a project such as this should not be approved. This is what is meant by your phrase "fundraising is only allowable for the materials."

Great post NJ. I agree 100%. Why such venom against an organization that is trying to make sure the law is upheld? If one is not in agreement with this, one's efforts should not be directed against the ACLU but in changing the law.

CM-Fred - seriously, what percentage of den leaders understand the den chief program? Second, if a SM has a super bang-up kid in the troop who is a great leader and then another kid who he feels has great "potential" but needs more "seasoning" who do you think he is going to recommend for SPL and who for a DC position?

Cub Scouts is both age based and grade based. Recent rule changes have made it slightly more age based, especially for Webelos/AOL, but IT WAS NEVER REQUIREMENTS based (ala Boy Scouts). The Tiger Cub program is for first-grade (or age 7) boys. The Wolf program is for boys who have completed first grade (or are age 8). The Bear rank is for boys who have completed second grade (or are age 9). The Webelos program is for boys who have completed third grade (or are age 10). So, if your 6 year old son is not yet 8 and has not completed the first grade, he is not supposed to be in the "Wolf" program regardless if he he earned his Tiger rank or not. Now, one may argue if he retakes 1st grade a second time if he has completed it or not - I don't know the answer to that.

How about this, at one time I was the SM for my older son's troop and a den leader for my younger son's Cub Scout den. My older son was the den chief for that den too! Talk about adult association limitations ... Yes, it is difficult for children to see mom or dad as SM or DL and not just mom or dad. One thing that I used was dual den chiefs. The older boys had a peer and it also prevented theden chief from having to work directly with his brother! Years later my younger son was a den chief for a Webelos den with no "nepotism" involved. As the Kentucky Eagle stated - the ability of the den leader (who is used to an adult-run system) to effectively empower and use the den chief is critical. My younger son's den chief didn't really give him any duties except for an occasional "tell them about Boy Scouts" request. The WDL did not have the Boy Scout background and a willingness to let him lead. Many DLs don't really understand the program. Many SMs don't either!

With patrol outings and initiative, 1st Class can EASILY be obtained in a few months. Both of my sons earned 1st Class before having nine months in the program. They also attended every troop meeting, went on every troop and patrol outing and all without the slightest "push" on my part. Now, their mother on the other hand ... Too many get in the trap that the troop should start checking off requirements for the boys. Last night we had a teacher (approvedby me, the SM) come to the meeting and talk about their Constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen. Adiscussion ensued. Not one Scout came to me after the meeting to get that requirement (1st Class req. 5) signed off because I'm sure 99% were not aware of the requirement. That shows a lack of initiative on their part and that requirement is currently not completed IMO. Kids today get way too much spoon fed to them.