acco40

Hunt, not to be argumentative but you made a value judgment on the rules, YP and uniform. Not that I don't agree but can you see where BW is coming from? There is a danger about letting individuals using their judgment in this way - some lack good judgment! The alternative could be worse! Something that stuck with me from my PTC training was not to try and rank or prioritize certain parts of Scouting. For example, the eight methods - one in not more important than another. They all should be given equal weight. Not something that most believe (uniform on par with the ideals?) but something that the program "believes." For my own personal example - I recently gave a Scout his SM conference and the Scout requested his BOR to the advancement chair (for Tenderfoot). The advancement chair scheduled the BOR but that evening could only round up two committee members. I was unaware and was told by the Scout and the advancement chair that he had "passed" his BOR. Only later did I learn that only two members sat on the BOR (3 - 6 required). I privately told the advancement chair of my displeasure but took no action. Was any real harm done? Those are the real world "ethics in action" (to borrow an old BSA phrase) situation that we as Scouter encounter all the time.

I second what the "Beave" stated. Just remember, your son is going as a member of a troop - his contingent troop. Contingent troops DO NOT earn quality unit so that patch should be absent. Just to stir the pot - the Jamboree web site (www.jamboreestuff.org) uses the outlawed "Class A" term to describe uniforms. Tsk, tsk. What would Mr. White say?

Sorry duplicate post.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I do think that Scouting can be a positive influence on boys lives. I just don't think that surveys show much more than circumstantial evidence. That said, lack of proof doesn't mean a cause and effect relationship is not there, it just means there is simply no proof. What kind of parent(s) signs up their young one for Cub Scouts? Some just do it because their little one begged them and offer no real support. These children may drop out quickly after a year or two and may not continue on with boy Scouts. Other parents signed up their kids because they had some knowledge of the program and feel their values are in alignment with the program.. Those who had knowledge of the program, became involved, offered encouragement, volunteered, etc. have kids who stay with the program longer term. Now what really provided the benefit to these children? The BSA program itself? Their parents values and attitudes? In all likelihood, both but also very difficult to prove.

Ah yes, Mr. Twain who stated, "It is agreed, in this country, that if a man can arrange his religion so that it perfectly satisfies his conscience, it is not incumbent on him to care whether the arrangement is satisfactory to anyone else or not."

That study is just like so many medical studies that I, as an engineer, have trouble with. It shows no cause and effect, just observations. "Studies have shown that those in the USA who take a multi-vitamin pill on a daily basis are 50% more likely to be in the top 50% of income of the population." Medical conclusion - taking a multi-vitamin pill make one rich.

OA paraphernalia (oh, that has a strange connotation for those of us who grew up in the 60/70s) is not any different that other BSA items. To wear ones uniform, one should be a member of the BSA. To wear ones OA "stuff", one should be a member of the OA. Similar to the BSA, one is not a member of the OA unless the membership fee is paid. Now to digress. I'm a member of my alumni association (Go Mizzou!). I had the option of becoming a life member by paying an exorbitant fee and not having to pay every year. I took it. I wish the BSA and the OA would have a similar option. So instead of paying $10/year or so one could pay something like $250 to become a lifetime member. The net effect would benefit the BSA/OA if they just invested the $250, sort of like an endowment, and used the interest to pay for year to year operating expenses and I would not have to be bothered with forms every year. Besides, being "boy run", my OA membership usually gets "snafued" every year with lost forms, bad record keeping, etc. Just a thought.

I liked the identity theft commercials with voice overs. Secretly, those controversial Paris Hilton "hot" burger commercials are not to shabby either.

The complete list of all training courses can be found right next to the "all the knowledge you need" reference book in your local library.

A troop outing every month (a given). Patrol outings highly encouraged. Troop meetings held outside as often as possible (small winter hike, rock climbing wall, rocket launches, cook-offs, etc.) Trying (but not succeeding) - hold some of our COHs outside. One thing that saddens me is that I'd like to see more troop meetings held in the local city park (only about 1/2 mile from our CO meeting room). The younger boys love it but some of the older boys are mortified to be seen in "public" in their Scouting uniforms (field or activity).(This message has been edited by acco40)

The first car I ever had was brand new. I however was not - 23 years old and recently graduated from college. Growing up, I witnessed my parents cars repossessed, utilities turned off, no phone service, etc. But you know what, I'm better off because of it. I was lucky in that I lived in the poorest house in the neighborhood but it was a typical middle class neighborhood. I received grants and scholarships to go to school and bummed many a ride off friends. Working numerous jobs every summer was a great lesson in learning what I did NOT want to do for a career. Now, I make a comfortable salary, have a stay at home wife, three kids, two cars, house in the suburbs, etc. My kids have never been without and that is good. Worrying about finances should not be on the list for children. Will they get a new car from Dad? No. Do they expect one? Well, the oldest will turn 15 in August so I have not crossed that bridge just yet. What are considered necessities these days? Internet access? Cable or satellite TV? Microwave oven? Two cars? Cell phones? MP3 players? "Select" sports team memberships? The list goes on and on. It is very difficult for todays youth and adults for that matter, to envision entertainment without beaucoup $$. Some of the best times that I remember were playing cards and board games with my family growing up and later on with other couples before kids. Boy do I sound old!(This message has been edited by acco40)

MBCs. The approval from the District/Council is annual - not perpetual.

Out of Hope College, that conservative evangelical Republican bastion of thought came the following: http://www.freep.com/news/religion/hope24e_20050524.htm

I agree with BW. That is why I dislike holding a SM conference during a troop meeting. At a troop meeting I am usually pulled in many directions and can't give my full, uninterrupted attention to the Scout. Also, many times the boys bunch up their requests to right before a COH and I get multiple requests on a specific night which does not bode well. My preference is on an outing. It is usually in a relaxed setting and I do not have time pressures. I have also given my share of conferences at my house. Now, the parents preference is to hold them during a troop meeting. That way, they save more time. Sadly, they see the SM conference as just another ticket punch to get Johnny another step toward Eagle.

What does your son want to do? The "since hes of age" statement troubles me. Does he attend because he is under 18 or because he wants to? The goal of Boy Scouts (i.e. aims) is not to make Eagle rank. That may be a byproduct of the goal. If you son wants a leadership position, he should pursue it like any other Scout. "Needing" a leadership position a false statement. All youth in a troop should have a leadership position (responsible for something). He may not need a POR for rank advancement but that is an entirely different story.

The Pack Award (Ribbon) is for the Pack. Having a Pack activity each month and having at least a 50% participation level is required. Den Participation Ribbon - for den who participated (at least 50% of their boys participated in an event each month). Individual Pins - who attended an activity each month. (i.e. all three pertains to the three months)

Girl Scouts don't need a PFD to fish on the dock! Boy Scouts don't need a certified lifeguard to fish on the docks.

scoutldr wrote, "The adult role in OA is to serve as "adult supervision" for Lodge and Chapter events, and to serve as advisors to youth officers and committee chairs, in addition to providing strong-back labor and transportation for work days, ordeals, etc. In my opinion, an adult in OA who does not serve in one of these capacities, and merely walks around with a coffee cup or comes to meetings just to socialize in the back of the room is really just in the way." For me, as an adult Scouter whose primary role in Scouting is that of Scoutmaster, my main role in the Order of the Arrow is to support the OA program within my troop. I do this by helping the youth leadership of our troop develop a top notch year round camping program. I strive to set a positive example to the youth membership by acting as an exemplary participant in the Order. On a lesser note, I also provide transportation to the monthly OA meetings to the youth of our troop when I attend our district roundtable. As an OA member, don't forget that our primary responsibility is to our troop and that we must help the youth to continue to work on the Scout spirit, service to Scouting and their camping abilities that helped them be chosen as OA candidates in the first place.

And like politicians, the BSA looks at their constituents. Now how do you think the largest constituent bases in the BSA views homosexuality? That my friend, is what influences the BSA policy. Money talks, BS walks.

According to the SM handbook (I'm paraphrasing) the Scouts "leaders" may sign off on requirements. Now, the SM is usually the gate keeper for who qualifies as a leader. His PL? The SPL or ASPL? Any SA? The SM? Committee members? I've had non-registered adults, such as teachers, come in and work on requirements with the boys (e.g. 1st Class req. 5 Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) your constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen.) and allowd them to sign off on that specific requirement. No blanket rule states that committee members may not sign off.

To answer the original question ... Sophomoric behavior on the part of the boys would be reduced. Like the UK, Scouts Canada is 100% co-ed with the Girl Guides available for females. Our troop (BSA) has attended Canadian Jamborees and the presence of the girls is not an issue. I've had many discussions with their leaders and the only drawback is that for outings, which require a leader of each sex as a minimum, they sometimes have trouble getting a female adult leader to participate. Guess what people. The world IS co-ed.

WARNING WARNING WARNING Another engineering joke. The Polish consulate sponsored a vacation for their compatriots back home to visit the USA. They all went to Las Vegas for a week and took a side trip to the Grand Canyon. After arriving in Vegas, ten of them got into a sight seeing plane and headed off to see the Grand Canyon. Once overhead the pilot got on the intercom and stated, "if you look out the left side, you can see the beautiful painted rocks of the Grand Canyon reflecting the sunlight. All passengers moved over to look out the the left windows. Due to the cg shift the pilot made a slight correction with his ailerons - no big deal. A few minutes later the pilot again came on the intercom, "If you look out on the right side you can see the Hoover Dam." The passengers all went over and looked out the window. The plane spun hopelessly out of control? Why? Ans: Too Poles in the right half plane. Question: If a redneck husband and wife get divorced are they still considered brother and sister? Darth Vader always knew what his son was going to get for Christmas. Puzzled by this, Luke finally asked his father how he knew. Darth Vader's response, "Luke, I feel your presents."

Scouts should not choose their MB counselors. The SM should provide the Scout with the name and contact information of a MB counselor.

I'm a UC. I've attended committee meetings, Pack meetings, offered suggestions when asked, helped with join scouting nights, conducted FOS presentations, charter presentations, helped with rechartering, helped with communications, picked up stuff at the trading post, roundtable and acted as a delivery service, etc. Some units welcome the help some see it as interference. My communication is primarily through the unit leader or primary contact. I am a "friend to the unit" and make myself available for consultation. Some take advantage of it, some do not. I'm sure that in the the ones where the unit leader or primary contact does not see a need for my involvement the other leaders will get the perception that they have a commissioner on paper only. Many myths exist about commissioners. I see my task as trying to help out the unit as my primary goal and reporting back to the council on the unit health as a secondary goal. As BW stated, a good unit doesn't need a UC as much as a struggling unit.

Just returned from the 16th DIBC (Dorchester International Brotherhood Camporee). Scouts Canada is 100% co-ed and I can firmly state that a "uniform" works both ways.