acco40

My son and I are off to summer camp this coming weekend and after seven days of summer camp he immediately goes to one week of JLTC (he will get to spend one night in his own bed). My number one concern for him is functioning on sleep depravation. JLTC has a rigorous program from 7:00 AM (wake-up at 6:00) and it goes to 11:00 PM every evening. He won't get much sleep in summer camp either. At this time of the year (summer soltise) and living "up north" we get way to much daylight in my opinion this time of year. I guess it compensates for our dark winters. We went to our JLTC orientation this weekend and he seems excited after some initial reservations. He is a great kid but somewhat shy amongst his somewhat older peers (he will turn 13 in August).

I claim no knowledge of Native American / Indian etiquette/sensibilities but I do know that from a legal perspective, non-native Americans should not use Eagle "parts" for ceremonial purposes. What is wrong with dyed turkey feathers? The way I look at it, instead of using the "national bird" why not use the national bird (non-scavenger) that Ben Franklin wanted to represent the USA?(This message has been edited by acco40)

You are probably correct but I know I've seen OA sashes at Eagle events, troop COHs, etc.

Scouting is a year round program (regardless in most Packs meet in the summer or not) and the thought process is (ad BW and others pointed out) to expose Tigers (and other new Scouts) the joys of camping and it is also a sign of successful Packs to have the leadership in place in the fall. It is better than stumbling around for leaders in September.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Full uniform with all awards (including merit badges) to all COH, and "award type" events. This would include such items as service stars and even medals. Think of when the military wears their dress uniform. That is when a Scout should wear all his "stuff." (It is impractical I know, but medals and the knots that symbolize the earning of the medals should not be worn in tandem). For Scout Sunday, parades (Memorial Day, Veterans Day, etc.) I could go either way but tend to lean toward full field uniform and leaving the sashes, medals, and pins at home (but not for Veterans). Not sure what you mean by a family night so I won't comment. P.S. OA members need to decide which sash to wear, both should not be worn together.

I go along with the "if it does not jeopardize health and safety", let the boys learn from their mistakes. Too many adult leaders worry about what type of reflection the boys mistakes on them will have. My biggest concern is answering the parents questions and comments when I continually hear things like they are only 12 (or 13, or 14, etc.) you can't expect them to plan their own meals, set-up their own tents, have the initiative to take a shower, ... My answer is usually yes I can! When the boys know there is always going to be an adult there to "bail them out" or worse, override their decisions, they tend to get lazy or disinterested. The profound idea that actions (including lack of planning, preparation, etc.) has consequences seems to be lost on many in todays society. If they are not allowed to fail in the protected insular arena of Scouting, heaven forbid when they get their first taste of failure in the real world!(This message has been edited by acco40)

If one reads the the Scoutmaster Handbook with an open mind, you can tell that it uses the term "Scoutmaster" to refer to SAs and SMs sometimes and to SMs only sometimes (note to National - be more clear!). Similar to giving SM conferences, each Troop has their own way of doing things. As a SM, I have no problem letting SAs give SM conferences or SM minutes. In fact, I prefer the SAs to give SM conferences to my sons. Otherwise, it becomes more of a Dad conference!

Adults ARE free to work on merit badges and any other of the requirements for rank. I do it all the time. The only difference from the BSA's perspective is that adults don't "earn" a badge. The best way to really learn the requirements of a merit badge; become a counselor for that badge. You have to ask yourself, what are the goals of the adults? My goal is to help the boys have good citizenship, physical fitness and develop character (where have I heard that before?). Earning a merit badge for myself does not do a whole lot toward those goals.

I may or may not be right (on many issues) but I hope you didn't mean to downgrade Cub Scouts with the phase "just a Pack." Cub Scouts is a different program, but no more or no less important than Boy Scouts.

I've got some new PC news, nobody is "tapped out" anymore. It violates youth protection! Cub Scouting has waffled on being pro-camping (currently) to being camping is for Boy Scouts not Cub Scouts (a few years ago) so with the camping requirements for OA, not to many Cub Scouters were eligible and since one of the primary functions of OA is to promote camping IN THE UNIT and the troop committee (not the pack committee) submits candidates for OA, it is highly unlikely that a Cub Scouter, not officially affiliated with a troop, would be the best individual to promote camping in the troop. Some forget that OA has a purpose above honoring individuals.

Thanks, JoePro. Some good info!

Am I the only one who reads Bob White's original post as "when" (at what point) and not "what" for the items given? It is my understanding that he is asking when the SM gives input and not about what the input should be. If so, I would give input on all topics, either positive reinforcement or by inserting questions (to make sure they thought of all the ramifications of their decisions). I would try to abstain from "giving answers" or providing cirtical comments. That is usually easier said than done!(This message has been edited by acco40)

We are actually going to camp on the Battlefield. I was told that they only allow Scouts and not the general public to do that. Thanks for the information.

Scouting is an institution formed composed of fallible humans. IMO, Scouting has many, many wonderful virtues for both the adults and youth who participate in it. Now, let's say that Scouting has a "rule" that we don't agree with 100%. Many on this forum have said that one can't pick and choose which Scouting tenets one wants to obey and which ones they won't. Remember when Bob White posted that a Commissioner should not be a Unit leader? Who is to say that tenet is any more or less important that the homosexual policy? I have not seen any weighting system applied. My contention is that I won't ever agree 100% with everything "national" comes up with but I will try to live with it and change (within the system) things I don't perceive as kosher. Scouting has changed (female leaders for example) and will continue to change. I think that that is great. No institution has reached perfection just yet. Also, please remember that US Scouting (BSA), Canadian Scouting (Scouts Canada), and all of the other world organizations of Scouting have many differences from each other. A question for the professionals. Given BSA's current policy, if another world Scouting organization allows avowed homosexual youth or leaders, may we in good conscience attend a Camp-o-ree that they attend?

Our troop is going to camp out at Gettysburg late this summer. Any words of wisdom from those who have attended previously? Thanks in advance.

I tend to agree with many of the posters. To foster the patrol method and patrol identity, activities AS A PATROL should occur. A council MB event is an activity, but not necessarily a patrol or troop activity. Also, the number of boys from a troop or patrol who attend should not matter in counting it as a patrol/troop activity. In our troop, we designated an orienteering activity (sponsored by another unit) as a troop activity. Only two boys attended. I counted that as a troop activity for the boys.

Sounds interesting. Keep us informed. Feel free to send me a private message if you get more details.

I tend to agree with limitation (better yet ban) on phone calls home but it becomes difficult for me to enforce (as SM) when all of my ASMs bring cell phones and talk to family & business repeatedly during the day and the families who follow their sons up to camp and happen to appear on a daily basis in the boys camp site. As usual, handling the boys is the easy part. The parents, that is another story.

Let's hope the Brits don't decide to bring the Jamestown folks "home." wink, wink

Can? I don't know. Depends on their qualifications. May? Yes. There are no rules against it.

Rockers - symbol of a rocking chair but we like to believe in the rock 'n roll motif. As with others, we don't compete, we lead by example (at least that is our intent). We've met some resistance to patrol identity (the boys like to do most everything as a troop) so the adults formed a patrol and made a flag, do our yell and grace before every meal, cook and clean as a patrol, etc. We never compete (skill sessions, competitions, etc.) against the youth unless they are specific in asking us to compete in Ultimate Frisbee or some other endeavor. We are a fairly young troop (wrt boys age) so they need a patrol as a role model IMO.(This message has been edited by acco40)

83 registered leaders and by your count and others 12 scouts (old) and now 45 scouts on average? Something doesn't smell right. Your troop must have very many "inactive" registered leaders.

When I was a den leader, I had the boys elect a denner and asst. denner. The "term of office" was one month. The next month a new asst. denner was elected by the boys and the former asst. denner became denner. They did not arrive early. They led the pledge of allegiance, were the focal point at the pack meeting, became my #1 'boy" helper, etc. With a den of eight, there were no real task for the asst. denner, they just stood in for an absent denner. Now, I also had a Den Chief who was responsible for pre-meeting activities (all the boys don't arrive at the same time), helping out with games and occupying the boys attention when I had to interface with the parents and would even lead some of the meetings. Make sure you award the denners with the gold shoulder cords!

Unless you have first hand information on what occured (i.e. you saw what happened) I would not rush to judgement. Explain expected behavior to all involved, give the opportunity to each scout to "fess up" and ask the troop as a whole what should be done (not to individuals but as a troop) to prevent the possible occurance of this behavior in the future. The worst thing that could happen would be to falsely accuse any of the boys. However, if you have your suspicions, keep a wary eye on the parties and make sure you nip any type if behavior in the bud. In my troop, the older boys like to do some types of horseplay. They don't seem to mind but when the younger scouts witness it nad then try their own version in their peer group, it seems to get out of bounds because they don't seem to be able to judge the boundaries as well as the older boys. Because of this, I try to discourage this type of behavior for all. Sometimes I even succeed!

At a compout last year the SPL and the rest of the boys did not want to pull out the troop and U.S. Flag out of the trailer and set them up. It was their decision (although I did not agree with it) so the adults let it stand. When it came time for the pledge we all faced east which I believe is the proper protocol when no flag is present. I prefer this method as opposed to using the flag emblem on our shoulder. Comments?