acco40

Allow me to post a few rambling thoughts. Can the SM block the boy's pursuit of Eagle? Yes (It appears that he has.) May be block the boy's pursuit of Eagle? No. It violates BSA policy. Same goes for merit badges by the way. (Shades of the smoking thread?). It scares me when someone implies that he would expect more out of a 17 yr. old shooting for Eagle than a 13 yr. old doing the same. Maturity is not a requirement for ANY Boy Scout rank. From personal experience, my son earned his Life rank at 12 years and four months. Our troop is very young and he was able to hold position of PL (six months), ASPL (six months) and den chief (1 yr.) {Note: The DC position overlapped his PL and ASPL positions.} I did not council on any MBs or approve any of his requirements. He is self motivated for Scouts (I wish I could say the same thing for school). Unfortunately, he suffers from the opinion of some that because his father is SM (me) he had an easy road to Life. In reality, I did not become SM until after he earned his Life rank. In reality, the requirements for Life are not that hard. He has had ample exposure to service projects, has attended almost every outing, served in leadership positions, etc. Now, do I expect him to make Eagle any time soon? No. From the way I see it, the Eagle requirements are light years ahead of the Life requirements. Being elected Patrol Leader and the associated responsibilities for that position is an order of magnitude easier than creating, developing and managing an Eagle project. He plans to coninue earning MBs and enjoying his activities in Scouts. Besides, he has to wait for Dad to ramp up the SM learning curve having never approved or worked with the boys on an Eagle Scout project.

Here are some of my thoughts (which are not universally accepted to say the least). I think the younger the den, the OLDER the den chief should be. Twelve year old den chiefs (haveing completed at least a full year of Boy Scouts and obtained 1st Class) can work great with fourth or fifth grade Webelos Cub Scouts but tend to struggle with Tigers and Wolfs (Wolves?). It takes more maturity to work with first graders than it does to work with fifth graders. So, if I were assigning den chiefs, I would assign the most mature (usually the oldest) to the younger den and the least mature to the older dens. Den chiefs can be a great asset for a pre-opening type environment. Regardless of when the den meetings start, one Cub Scout is always first to arrive and one is always last to arrive. What should occur in this 5 - 10 minute time frame? Let the den chief figure it out. Magic tricks, games, competitions, etc. can be very helpful and I always gave my DCs 100% responsibility for this. Idle hands are the devils workshop so keep the boys busy! I always let the DCs handle anything to do with knots, camping and first aid which permeate almost every Cub Scout rank. Let your den chief kow what you plan to accomplish during your den meeting, well in advance (1-2 days) and ask him to comment on how he can help out. Try to stay away from dual roles. Make sure the boys know when the den chief is in charge and when you (den leader) are in charge. If the activitiy is a craft, simply letting the den chief participate in the craft gives the younger boys something to emulate (his is usually the most creative and possibly the best constructed). The Cub Scout leader handbook gives some great ideas on how to utilize DCs. Make sure you and your den chief have been recently trained!

Watching the Tonight show last evening and Leno made a reference to Kim Jong Il's seldom heard brother Mental Lee Il. Sorry, but I thought KoreaScouter may like the comment. Check out: www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/8058/

Sparkie, I think you missed my question. Yes, the Tiger diamond "replaced" the Webelos diamond, wrt to real estate on the shirt pocket. My question is, in the future when the Webelos diamond no longer exists and the youth in question begins the Cub Scout program as a fourth grader and the tan shirt is mandatory (trust me, it will be in the future). When he earns his Bobcat badge, should he sew it on only to remove it once his Webelos badge is earned?(This message has been edited by acco40)

The funny thing is, when the boys cross over to Boy Scouts, a blank shirt is much more preferable to the one with Cub Scout "stuff" on it. Question: I'm aware of the Tiger diamond badge, oval and diamond Webelos (NOT WEBELO!!!) badge and the implications of both. However, what if a fourth grader joins Cub Scouts for the first time (in 2005 let's say so the diamond Webelos badge is now an outdated relic). He still needs to earn his Bobcat "badge." Will there still be a Bobcat badge? If so, where will it be worn. In the mid-60s when the boys could earn Wolf, Bear and Lion diamond shaped badges was not the Bobcat badge just a pin (similar to the parent's pin we issue now)? What was the fourth badge in the quad, was it Bobcat or did the Webelos program have a badge at this time? I can't remember myself. I think it was Wolf, Bear, Lion and Webelos? Anyone know for sure? Thanks.

Our council camps have various "mix & fix" type events where individuals and groups volunteer to supply their time and efforts and sometimes materials to construct, do repairs, etc. to the various buildings, equipment and such at camp. One of the most generous and useful organizations are the local trade unions who volunteer their time and expertise. They usually bring along their beer too! To my knowledge a good time was had by all, much needed work was accomplished, and community bonds were strengthened. The union members were not working with youth and no formal youth activities were ongoing in the vicinity but it was on council property.

A Scout is cheerful, a scout if friendly, a scout is courteous - all characteristics / values that can be taught by "games." Now, why ban group computation Eagledad? I know that many have a math phobia but that is going to an extreme! Doesn't that fall under "mentally awake?" {Type with tongue firmly planted in cheek.}

The easy way to see that your council means age/school year instead of true rank, is that Webelos I and Webelos II are not ranks. There is a Webelos rank only. Another way is to listen to sctmom and Bob White!

eisley, May I be so bold to ask what part of Missouri you grew up in? Just to rile up Irving, do you know the difference between a Missouri boot and a Texas boot? On a Missouri boot, the BS in on the outside. Go Tigers!

A friend of mine at work (Eagle, West Point Grad) did a similar project when stationed (his father) at an Army base in the south. A Civil War memorial on base had fallen into disrepair and he managed and participated in clearing vegetation, made minor repairs, did surrounding area clean-up, and the troop keeps perpetual maintenance of the sight now. I'm guessing that that project was done in the early to mid 70's.

Forms should be carried at your council office. Look at: http://www.usscouts.org/awards/scoutertraining1.html For the Boys Scout Leader's Training Award: Training 1.Complete Boy Scout Fast Start training 2.Complete Basic Leader Training for your position. Tenure Complete a total of 2 years as a registered adult Boy Scout leader. Performance Do five of the following: 1.Participate in a support role for five overnight campouts. 2.Help with two annual unit and/or district Friends of Scouting enrollments. 3.Serve on the staff of a council or district training event. 4.Participate in a supplemental training course beyond basic training (local council or national-level experience). 5.Participate actively in three troop parents' nights or courts of honor. 6.Help supervise or support a troop money-earning project. 7.Serve as a merit badge counselor for at least five Scouts. 8.Successfully complete Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge. 9.Successfully fulfill requirements of a troop committee function from the Troop Committee Guidebook. 10.Assist actively with a Webelos den for 6 months. 11.Participate in six Boy Scout roundtables. 12.Help organize or reorganize a Boy Scout troop.

I'm very close to completing my ticket (Go Bears!). I've passively attended two bead presentation ceremonies. One was during our troop court of honor. The boys COH somehow became the SMs Wood Badge ceremony which totally overshadowed the event. The other ceremony was during the closing campfire of my SLF course. Both occured before I really knew much about Wood Badge. My Wood Badge patrol consisted of me and five others from a different district. They all told me that most of their WB ceremonies happened at their monthly Roundtable. I've attended my districts roundtable for the past five years or so and have not seen one WB presentation there. Sorry for rambling on but I just wanted a few suggestions and toughts about the WB ceremony. Any thoughts?

I don't like mandatory community service, draft, etc. I don't want to discuss those issues here. Den Chiefs do get credit (leadership) for rank advancement. Maybe the BSA could also attribute some "service" hours (or maybe it is within the SM's power) to den chief responsibilities. Not necessarily a one for one but maybe something like an hour of service for "set" of three den meetings and one pack meeting. I know many feel that a den chief should be light years ahead ofthe cubs in age but one advantage of having a den chief only two years older or so is that they still enjoy many of the den activities. My 12 year old den chiefs still enjoyed some of the crafts, skits, etc. that we did in our den meetings. Having two den chiefs (my idea) gave them a peer to interact with during the meetings and made them much more receptive to the idea of becoming a den chief too.

When considered for employment, you owe your potential employer an upfront assessment on how your religious beliefs may effect your work effectiveness. Your potential employer owes you the potential impact your employment may have on your religious observances. For example, I work in the defense industry (private company) and the US Government is notorious for releasing RFPs (requests for proposals) in late November, mid December and wanting a response by early January. The Government works hard, gets their work done rught before the holidays and then releases it. Companies that have any hope for a winning proposal are forced to expect from their key employees 15+ hour days throughout the holiday season to complete the tasks on time. Ain't capitalism grand?(This message has been edited by acco40)

Don't no if it is official BSA policy, but we put the Troop Guide (with his approval) in the patrol that he is guiding.

"Makes for a quick, but ineffective meeting." Is this really what you meant to post? I believe some are confusing Pack leadership meetings and Pack Committee meetings. Den leaders, CM, ADL etc. are not committee members and do not need to attend committee meetings. They are pack leaders and should attend Pack Leadership meetings. Also, such positions as Treasurer, Public Relations, Registrar, Secretary, etc. should be registered Scouters in my book. They alway were in Packs that I was affilitated with. I believe the Cubmaster role is much understood. He/she does not "run the program." He/she does plan the Pack and den programs with input and help from the den leaders. The CM's biggest task is to emcee the pack meetings. It is my experience that most underestimate the responsibilities of the CC and overestimate the responsibilities of the CM. FYI: Every Pack is Under the Supervision of A Pack Committee Committee Consists of a Minimum of Three Qualified U.S. Citizens* of Good Character & 21 years or older Members Selected by the Chartered Organization and Registered as Adult Leaders of BSA Committee Functions: Ensure That the Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts Receive a Year-Round Quality Program Make Recommendations to the Chartered Organization for Final Approval of Pack Leadership Recruit the Cubmaster and One or More Assistant Cubmasters Committee Chair responsibilities: Cubmasters Chief Adviser Maintain Close Relationship with Chartered Organization Supervise Pack Committee Operation Assign Duties to, and Training Committee Members Conduct Annual Pack Program Planning Conference Approve Bills Before Payment by Pack Treasurer Ask the Committee to Assist with Recommendations For Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster(s), Den Leader Coaches, Webelos Den Leaders and Den Leaders, as needed Supervise Finances and Equipment Help Stimulate the Interest of Parents Through Proper Programming * Requirement for US citizenship can be waived. Please note that Cub Scouts is a year round program and does not hibernate in the summer! (This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)

I was once married to a Committee Chair (sounds like the title of a book, and no my marriage did not end, she ended her tour of duty as CC). I was a den leader. Sometimes she could not attend the Committee meeting and would have me bring the agenda that she made. I would present the agenda but would not exactly chair the meeting in my eyes, but maybe it looked like I did in others eyes. Anyway, I definitely never assigned tasks, made decisions, etc. The Cubmaster, Asst. Cubmaster, Den Leaders, Asst. Den Leaders ARE NOT memebers of the Pack Committee (similarly in Troop for SM and ASMs) but are members of the Pack leadership. I like the idea of having an Asst. CC for both Packs & Troops but have been unsuccessful convincing others of their worth.

Not to get into a battle, but the Patrol Leader position can be thought of as a troop position as well as a patrol position. It is a patrol position for obvious reasons. It can be considered a troop position because he is a member of the PLC. As a SM can assign/approve of leadership, he/she may also NOT approve of a position (for example PL) if they felt the position was not carried out properly. In the troop vs. patrol debate, when such positions as QM, Scribe, etc. are listed, they refer to Troop QM, Troop Scribe as opposed to patrol scribe. And yes, once again, all of the information is in the BSA literature!

SM's perspective - I want my best/brightest to become my troop's PLs, Troop Guides, Instructors, JASMs, ASPL(s) and SPL. For boys who have "potential" and no internal troop position to fill, how about serving as a den chief? Den Leaders perspective - I want your best/brightest most mature Scout for MY den. Scouts perspective - Would I rather be a leader of the boys in my troop or of "little" cubs (AND have to attend more meetings and take instruction from a den leader again). As a father, I have had my son act as den chief (he just earned his service award). As an SM, I've recommended three boys from the troop for den chief training (they all were trained). As a Webelos Den Leader, I've "employed" two den chiefs. From my experience: Troops do not "owe" Packs a den chief. If a den is lucky enough to receive a den chief, use them properly. They are used to being boy led in the troop. They do not want to revert back to having a den leader telling them what to do. Give them responsibility and then stand back and let them try to accomplish their task(s). Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. The hardest person for a den chief to interact with is his younger brother! The den chief experience, if paired with the proper den leader can be a wonderful experience for the Cubs and the DC. I highly recommend the program. I had my den chiefs accompany my boys on our summer camp (Webelos Woodlands, four nights, five days) and they thrived in their element.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Some boys behave better when their parents ARE NOT present. Some act better when they are. If you have not had a chance to have a den activity with their parents not present, you may want to give that a shot. As a den leader, I welcomed all parents to stay. However, I requested that any parent who stayed help out. If they were not willing to help out I politely escorted them to the door. Casual observers usually chit-chatted with other parents and they were as disruptive as the boys.

What some "wish", a la Youngblood, and what are BSA regulations sometimes are much different. As SMs, we have to be sure we do not fall in the trap of making the BSA what we want in our (our?, try the boys) troop and follow BSA rules. I am amazed at the long hair, pierced body parts, tatoo, maturity, and on and on discussions with respect to rank advancement. None of those issues have anything to do with rank advancement! We should be encouraging boys who return to Scouting, not discouraging them.

Our troop went to Chicago last year and stayed at the Quality Inn. It gets tricky staying at a Hotel because you can't have adults/youth share a room (unless family) and most Hotels don't want minors to share a room with no adult supervision. We had the majority stay with a family (parent) memeber but we did have our four most senior boys share a room. Although not cheap, considering it was in the prime of downtown Chicago, the $80/night or so cost was a bargain. Mass transit is great in Chicago so the bus, subway, and elevated train can get you almost anywhere. The kids enjoyed it too.

I knowingly broke the G2SS rules! Mea culpa! Two weeks ago I held my last den meeting. The Webelos Scouts in my den had already earned their Arrow of Light. The den meeting that evening was to be held in the church "great hall" to do a final run through of the skit the boys were going to provide to the Pack at the Blue and Gold Banquet that weekend. I had my two sons (one 10 year old Webelos, the other a Life Scout and Den Chief) and was waiting for the other parents to come by with their boys. The other parents came by and one by one they dropped off their son and said they could not stay. My Asst. Webelos leader was not there yet and I fully expected her to stay so I said it would not be a problem to the parents (my first mistake). Well, after all of the other boys had been dropped off and parents left, my Asst. WDL arrived, dropped of her son and said she could not stay either. I somewhat jokingly told her that I would be violating every rule in the book if she left me alone with all of the boys. She laughed and began to leave. I seriously asked her to stay and she said she could not. Suffering a serious lapse in judgement, I just stood there dumbfounded and watched her leave. The boys practiced their skit, played some games, had a great time and an hour later the parents arrived picked up their sons and that weekend enjoyed the AOL, crossover and skit tremendously. Later, I found out that all of the parents of the den (besides me) were getting together to make final preparations for an award for yours truly and that is why they all got together. But I must say, I did not appreciate being put in that situation. Granted, it was at a church that had other adults present but not in the room I was in.

Can't add a requirement and last time I looked, hair color was not an Eagle requirement. acco40 - a folliclely (sp?) challenged redhead

Alcohol in moderation ... Bad, bad idea. What constitutes moderation? One beer impairs physical acuity, response times, etc. Not by much, but at what level is enough enough. What ifan adult had three beers and said, I'm fine, I'll have another. It would make it very difficult to regulate. THe easy answer is NO ALCOHOL around the youth. Last week, a bunch of us adult scouters came over to my house and we all drank a few beers as we prepared the final touches on the B&G ceremonies, made AOL arrows, etc. No youth were present. As SM, I have way to many responsibilities on a camp-out to even consider drinking beer or even a glass of wine. I'll admit it was difficult at first, I always associated camping with a few beers but I now fully endorse a complete alcohol ban. I would hate to be put into a position of trying to tell a fellow adult scuter that he / she had "had enough."