Jameson76

Hammock stacking is definitely a thing, especially when some do not bring a rain fly, if you stack, less rain flys.... Great place to nap during campouts, I am not a fan of all night, like to move around too much. On outings our troop is about 90% sleeping in hammocks, they pitch tents to store gear. Most like they are level, no rocks or limbs in their backs, and unlike the leaders, they don't have to get up 3 times during the night for the call of nature.

The numbers are from the Census Bureau Noted in this article - https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-than-60-of-u-s-kids-live-with-two-biological-parents/

Just a quick fact check - actually it's about 58% Each year the Census Bureau captures a snapshot of the living arrangements of U.S. children through its Current Population Survey. The 2014 results were released by the Bureau last week, and the portrait they present of the family lives of 73.7 million American kids is certainly a variegated one. Yet despite all the talk about the growing irrelevance of marriage, 43 million children, a 58-percent majority, were living with both their birth mother and biological father in a traditional married-couple family

Philmont extended the "sign-up" lottery a couple of times. Are they not filling up as in past years? Also had several communications on 2018 availability

Well...if we go by current National Policy change methodology...just sort of do what you want with the shoulder loops, if it may in their opinion increase revenue or add members, no doubt it will be quickly codified.

And a very timely Brady Bunch episode...literally ripped from today's headlines http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0531140/

Agree and that was my take when I read the (now famous) 10/11 announcement. Follow up clarifications, talks, question sessions continually mention families and not just when talking about Cubs. There are many many family oriented activities and groups out there. An organization that hopes to be all things to all people, ends up being little or nothing to anyone. On our outings if we can teeter on the edge of Lord of the Flies (not to include the fire scene, rolling large rocks on kids, or burning up an island) then so much the better, There is mayhem there are disagreements, there are scouts solving their issues. There is unplanned time where they get to see what is actually around the bend from the campsite.

I would respectfully say no. The BSA is for participants in patrols doing the program. It is (currently) many many things. A social family organization it is not nor was it ever intended to be. Remember, Scouting is program that using the patrol method and boys leading is designed and hoped to have failure as part of the outcome. If they burn a meal, forget some equipment, sleep cold, get wet, etc etc; that will reinforce that their decisions, or lack of decisions have consequences. Yes we as leaders provide a basic safety net. Before cold weather camping you may make sure essential equipment is on-hand. Go to summer camp and forget something, hopefully you will adapt and overcome. Meet with a MB counselor at a meeting but do not have paperwork or partial from camp, see you later. Come to a BOR and do not have everything completed or maybe completed but not signed off, you will need to reschedule. Our troop is 100+ scouts, we do 13 outdoor events each year, 2 weeklong summer camps, and high adventure for older scouts each year. The Greenbar (we are old school) plans the outings and calendar each year. NEVER have they even mentioned a family campout. They plan the meetings at the greenbar, the adults confirm they are aware of the dates for the meetings, there is preliminary conversation about outing (or outings) coming up and what skills may be relevant, then adults go to another room and scouts plan. They used to come get us when they were done, now they text. Families are important, but not to the program and siblings and parents on outings and at meetings are not helpful. Parents are welcome at meetings to observe and maybe talk with the active leaders. We have had some do skills presentations in the past. We welcome all leaders on the outings, but once you come you are a leader and not a parent.

That boat has left the dock already. Local councils can attempt to distance themselves, but they cannot embrace the idea (Local SE meetings last spring) while trying to minimize the fundamental change to the organization when it comes time to ask for financial support. Many of the changes seem to be motivated solely by finances. Thus it would seem that finances may be the only thing that local and perhaps national BSA professional leadership will listen to that may drive policy changes. The dilemma is does one continue to provide financial support at an increasing level each year? If so then one would be complicit in supporting national leadership in fundamental changes one may not support Current National BSA leadership has not taken to heart the basic tenant of campsites with regard to the overall BSA program, leave the site better than you found it. Will not participating in FOS hurt local councils, likely. Will it affect near term the impact on currently operating troops, likely no. Honestly when was the last time you saw your DE? Will this impact some of the other possible efforts of local councils, perhaps. These are the cards they chose to play, live with the consequences.

On the FOS, one of our leaders was asked to give at a high level, their response (I will paraphrase) It appears that many of the BSA's decisions have been made for financial reasons, if I continue or expand my support I would be implicitly supporting those decisions I may not agree with. My support will be to the local troop and if a specific Scout or program oriented need is identified Most of us in the troop have that same opinion, and we are the highest FOS troop in the district. (well, up until the 2018 program I guess)

He talked for 30 minutes, not sure about answering anything. The CSE is really a politician, we've got questions and he's got anecdotes and stories.

Cub scout campouts...tents the size of houses, enough gear to lay siege to a castle, cars literally parked everywhere, people arriving constantly, people departing constantly...do not miss those Agree that the constant mention of "family" is concerning. What does it really mean, what next will change.

It will be up to local Cub Scout Packs, parents and chartered partners to choose whether to include boys and girls in family packs or only serve boys or girls; we anticipate a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level. Using logic, if there is a family pack and there will be a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level (CSE words) then there will / could be family troops If there is a family pack and there will be a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level (CSE words) then there will / could be family troops It will be up to local Cub Scout Packs, parents and chartered partners to choose whether to include boys and girls in family packs or only serve boys or girls; we anticipate a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level. Using logic, if there is a family pack and there will be a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level (CSE words) then there will / could be family troops

This is the statement. Not out of context, the whole sentence: It will be up to local Cub Scout Packs, parents and chartered partners to choose whether to include boys and girls in family packs or only serve boys or girls; we anticipate a similar structure at the Boy Scouts level. Clearly the intention (similar) is to have "family" and / or co-ed troops This was the statement on 10/20 (a clarifying statement from the Big 3 junta) While our curriculum is relevant both to boys and girls, our commitment to single-gender offerings remains the same. Our decision does not make our programs co-ed. It is apparently going to be co-ed. There will be separate but equal troops no doubt AND (my editorial license) parents and chartered partners to choose whether to include boys and girls in family troops Challenge will be that right now we go to market (basically) with 2 versions CUB and SCOUTS. Soon there will be: (one would presume) 1)CUBS - Boys 2) CUBS - Girls 3) CUBS - Boys and Girls (separate dens) 4) CUBS - Family packs 5) SCOUTS - Boys 6) SCOUTS - Girls 7) SCOUTS - Boys and Girls (separate patrols ??) 8) SCOUTS - Family troops Good luck to the huddles masses yearning to joining Scouts finding the unit in the derivation they desire

Good Lord - time to move on Siblings / Kids staying with parents / Kid with the soccer ball needs to be dealt with Yes Yes Yes - Same feedback we have had. There was a really great parent we approached to be active in outings, he advised son had asked him to not be as they wanted their space. We did have a place for him behind the scenes. He went to camp with us for the week (we take 55 - 60 each time to two different camps each summer) I honestly did not see him speak to his son at all except on Saturday when we loaded up and headed home

We looked at Summit and while it was interesting, for what is offered there, I can do it for 1/2 the cost locally (we live in a state with mountains, etc). As has been noted, more experience and less actual high adventure You do have a good catch on the legacy portion. Part of the beauty of Philmont (other than the actual beauty) is that it looks very similar and the trek is very similar to what was done 40 - 50 years ago or longer. I went as a youth, then went 10 years later as an Explorer post advisor (all of this in the 70' and 80'). Then I went 3 years ago with my son and current troop. Except for the better equipment available, it was really the same experience. Most of the scouts we send today all come down with IWTGBTP syndrome. Maybe in 20 - 30 years if it survives the Summit will have some of that, but now, do not see it and no real attraction. Though I might want to swing by and see what $500MM buys in a camp property.

The TPG's (Trading Post Girls) are all part of the marketing plan...a plan to extract as much cash from campers as possible

Assuming $100 profit from each attendee and with the Jamboree in 2021, would need 1,360,000 to attend. That is doable

Just for fun also note that in 2012 National Council issues debt to finance the development of the Summit, $175 MILLION in 10 Year tax exempt bonds. There is a balloon payment of $136 MILLION in 2022. Guess National will start admitting emotional support animals...for the right fee

If you wonder where the cash went or is in fact going, look at page 35 of the Annual Report (2016). There is Note 5 which details Land, Building, and Equipment. High Adventure bases (Philmont / Sea Base / Northern Tier) less accumulated depreciation of $28 million are on the books for $53 million Summit less accumulated deprecation of $30 million is on the books for...wait for it....$364 million dollars. Yes Summit is on the books for almost 7 TIMES the value of the other 3 High Adventure bases. I find that concerning. If BSA dumped that kind of cash and infrastructure there, just the debt service is ridiculous.

Good Lord the amount of cash dumped into the Summit is likely never to be known. You know they are selling day passes and locals passes to the Summit for non Scouts to generate up some cash, right? It is literally trying to do everything for everyone, sort of Disneyesque. And it it hemorrhaging cash daily. As we speak of surveys and market research, what crystal ball told them there was untapped and unfulfilled need for a high adventure base in WV?

For none of these ranks does it say how far away from home, etc the camp should be. If they meet the requirement, then sure For Tenderfoot the requirments Camping and Outdoor Ethics 1a. Present yourself to your leader, prepared for an overnight camping trip. Show the personal and camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it. 1b. Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop[1] campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch. 1c. Tell how you practiced the Outdoor Code on a campout or outing Cooking 2a. On the campout, assist in preparing one of the meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup. 2b. While on a campout, demonstrate an appropriate method of safely cleaning items used to prepare, serve, and eat a meal. 2c. Explain the importance of eating together as a patrol For Second Class Camping and Outdoor Ethics 1a. Since joining Boy Scouts, participate in five separate troop/patrol[1] activities, at least three of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least two must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol[1] meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee. 1a. On Aug 1, 2017, this requirement will become: Since joining Boy Scouts, participate in five separate troop/patrol activities, at least three of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least two must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee. 1b. Explain the seven principles of Leave No Trace and tell how you practiced them on a campout or outing. This outing must be different from the one used for "Tenderfoot requirement 1c". 1c. On one of these campouts, select a location for your patrol site and recommend it to your patrol leader, senior patrol leader, or troop[1] guide. Explain what factors you should consider when choosing a patrol site and where to pitch a tent. Cooking and Tools 2a. Explain when it is appropriate to use a fire for cooking or other purposes and when it would not be appropriate to do so. 2b. Use the tools listed in Tenderfoot requirement 3d to prepare tinder, kindling, and fuel wood for a cooking fire. 2c. At an approved outdoor location and time, use the tinder, kindling, and fuel wood from "Second Class requirement 2b" to demonstrate how to build a fire. Unless prohibited by local fire restrictions, light the fire. After allowing the flames to burn safely for at least two minutes, safely extinguish the flames with minimal impact to the fire site. 2e. On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch, selecting foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model. Explain the importance of good nutrition. Demonstrate how to transport, store, and prepare the foods you selected. For First Class Camping and Outdoor Ethics 1a. Since joining Boy Scouts, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol[1] activities, at least six of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least three must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee. 1a. On Aug 1, 2017, this requirement will become: Since joining Boy Scouts, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities, at least six of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least three must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee. 1b. Explain each of the principles of Tread Lightly! and tell how you practiced them on a campout or outing. This outing must be different from the ones used for Tenderfoot requirement 1c and Second Class requirement 1b. Cooking 2a. Help plan a menu for one of the above campouts that includes at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner, and that requires cooking at least two of the meals. Tell how the menu includes the foods from MyPlate or the current USDA nutritional model and how it meets nutritional needs for the planned activity or campout. 2b. Using the menu planned in First Class requirement 2a, make a list showing a budget and the food amounts needed to feed three or more boys. Secure the ingredients. 2c. Show which pans, utensils, and other gear will be needed to cook and serve these meals. 2d. Demonstrate the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products. Show how to properly dispose of camp garbage, cans, plastic containers, and other rubbish. 2e. On one campout, serve as cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in First Class requirement 2a. Supervise the cleanup.

This is from the 10/11 announcement Families today are busier and more diverse than ever. Most are dual-earners and there are more single-parent households than ever before [1], making convenient programs that serve the whole family more appealing. Additionally, many groups currently underserved by Scouting, including the Hispanic and Asian communities, prefer to participate in activities as a family. Recent surveys [2] of parents not involved with Scouting showed high interest in getting their daughters signed up for programs like Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, with 90 percent expressing interest in a program like Cub Scouts and 87 percent expressing interest in a program like Boy Scouts. Later the BIG 3 re-affirmed we were not going Coed So the big deal is families and convenience etc etc. One stop shopping, all these millions of people itching to join if only..... For Cubs - Let's assume the family has 2 kids Tim in 4th grade and Tina in 2nd grade. Going on the current plan of NOT COED but assuming the pack has Male and Female dens, poor old mom will only have 1 meeting per month that will be coordinated. The Den meetings will likely be at separate times. They would be on the same campouts, but that is maybe 2 activities per year. Also I guess they could be at day camp together, not 100% sure. She still has to schlep around to different meeting locations and times. When Tim is in 5th grade and Webelos typically those (now patrols/dens) might camp as a den, so I guess Tina and family could come, not 100% sure Then Tim crosses over and he would be in a Male troop and Tina would still be in cubs. Current scouting is not really a family event. In a couple of years Tina could join a girls troop, but not sure if there meeting night, events, etc would coordinate with Tim's troop. Again, they could be at separate outings on opposite weekends. Do not see how this will be easier on the under served family than current setup.

But that is the fun of tubing, the aloft part as you skip them off the wake and watch them fly off skimming over the lake. Good times

Yep I see that now Tow sports seems to indicate YES Tow Sports All participants in towed activity afloat (waterskiing, wakeboarding, kneeboarding, tubing, etc.) must have successfully completed the BSA swimmer classification test and must wear a life jacket with an impact rating consistent with the activity. Supervision must include both a skilled boat driver currently trained in Safety Afloat and a separate observer. Participants should observe the Water-Skiers Safety Code and the Boat Drivers Safety Code found in Aquatics Supervision, No. 34346. Use only floats specifically designed for towing that provide secure handholds for each rider. Yet (Thank you search function) Unauthorized and Restricted Activities 15. Parasailing, or any activity in which a person is carried aloft by a parachute, parasail, kite, or other device towed by a motorboat, including a tube, or by any other means, is unauthorized. As Tow sports is on page 20 (Good lord 105 pages of G2SS) I stopped reading there and tubing will continue