Eagle94-A1

Seeing it done now. Camp got sold, but in the agreement Scouts can use it 5 times a year for the next 3 years. HOWEVER since the new owners are not maintaining the property, Scouters would have 1 Saturday prior to an event to come in and get everything ready. The last time an event was held there with no ranger onsite, it took volunteers about 2 months going into and out of the camp at our own times to get it ready to meet NCAP standards. One event was already cancelled this year, and the fall events may be cancelled if the conditions are stil in place.

I know one council in TX was using a camp that was owned by a trust. The SE was able to convince the trust to transfer the deed to the council outright, which they did. Within 6 months, the camp was sold. In another council, the PTB waited until certain donors passed away before securing permission from the sole survivor to sell the camp.

If your pros are doing some of this still, you are lucky. Last time I saw a pro involved with training was 12 years ago, and he was assisting me because I needed a 2nd trainer for a break out session. Last time I saw a pro at a district program event, besides roundtable, was 8 years ago. Usually when they get involved, they screw things up. I had camporee dumped into my lap with 3 months notice because of DE interference causing the person to quit.. I quit running events because the DE screwed up the supply order so badly, I ad to get supplies locally and more expensive, going over budget because of them. Since most pros have little to no experience, they really do not know what they are doing. Now I saw a DE attempt to implement a program, they created the event after the Cub Scout packs stopped meeting for the summer and with 3 weeks notice. In the middle of summer with troops going to summer camp, she tried to recruit volunteers. When no one signed up, they blamed the volunteers. That was last summer. As for supervising and supporting units, they do not in my area. Much different now than when I was a DE. I do not see value for my pros.

Sometimes you will have to ignore it. Unit I grew up in and stuck around with while in college did have some new parents question my involvement since I hade aged out. Scouters and existing Scouts in the troop knew me, and had no problems. But new folks would sometimes have concerns. Once you have kids, you will understand. Two units checked all my references in the councils I had been in, and my work history to verify I worked for BSA. One did their own background check on me. The Hardest time getting trust was not a unit, but becoming a DE. The district i was assigned to had a high turnover rate, and previous pros had little to no experience with the BSA. Plus lots of problems on the professional side in the council. Long story short, it took 6-8 months of doing attending just about everything: pinewood derby, OA events, camporee, training events, and summer camp before I gained the trust of my volunteers. AND IT WAS WORTH! I made lots of friends, some of who me I am friends with today. Because folks knew I would do whatever to took to help Scouts, and the Scouters out, they helped me when I had challenges. I left the profession and the area, only to come back to the area as a volunteer. So do not get discouraged if you have to gain folks' trust. After all they have the same goal as you: protecting the Scouts and providing a great program to them Good luck.

Having been in your shoes here are some ideas. 1. Find out if your church, civic group, etc has a unit you can be part of. did that in 2 councils i moved to and knew no one. 2. Serve on a district level. I was an OA associate chapter advisor in two councils as well. Aslo served on training staff. 3. Show up to a unit. I did that once. Yes people were skeptical, but after talking scouting and giving references, it worked out. 4. do not give up good luck EDITED yes where ya at. I need help too.

National printed one of those a few editions back. Biggest challenge is that National keeps changing requirements, like some folks change clothes. 5 changes to Second Class requirements since 2016? That is a change ever 18 months or so If national doesn't have control, they will not do it. Look at the template for council websites. You had some really great volunteer web designers doing local council and OA lodge webpages. And national quashed them. One web designer I know worked for a Fortune 500 company's webpage, and that council and lodge's webpages were excellent. Not anymore since National mandated specific templates.

Yes, uniforms and books subsidize National, and councils. Since they are a source of revenue, I have included them in the value national gives us. My oldest bought a pair of pants that was worn maybe 6 times to meetings, and they ripped within 2 months of purchasing. I still wear ODL shorts, pants, and shirts from 1994. There is a reason why ODL shirts with all kinds of glue go almost as much as a new shirt today.

And more and more folks will not be able to afford Scouting, including those who most need it. In my neck of the woods, arrogant professionals have alienated volunteers and donors. A lot of folks have been burnt by pros. And every time national fees increase, that is less income for FOS. That is an understatement. And all it takes is one arrogant professional to tick off UW folks. My old boss made some rather rude, obnoxious comments about the local UW president that got back to them. Long story short, we lost all UW funding except designations. No., families do not get value. I would argue that the quality of service National provides has proportionally decreased as prices increase. Books and uniforms fall apart, training materials are leaving out so much, and concerns from the field are ignored. As for council, The office staff have provided more support to the unit than the pros. Heck I cannot tell you the last time I saw a professional at a district event, besides roundtable, or a council event in my district. Not trying to be a negative Nellie, but I am at wit's end.

At least you have a list of approved camps, even if limited to council owned. Some councils do not have any list of approved camps because some high level volunteers feel "Cubs don't need to camp." So packs are using the OA's Where to Go Camping book as their list of approved camps since it is a council publication. Yes, but some councils do restrict their Cubs to only their own camps. I know of one council that has great Cub programs at the camp, but once they reach Scout age, tend to go elsewhere because they are bored at going to that camp.

Actually some of us predicted this was the reason for the rule change. Actually what your council, and many others I might add, were doing was not allowed by national. However that rule was never enforced. Probably because it made money for the local councils, i.e. pay for the training, pay to rent the range, pay to rent the equipment, buying the ammo and targets, etc. Now it appears national is coming down like a hammer on councils.

Just remember, Venturing has been around 24 years, and folks still call them venture Scouts instead of Venturers, and venture crews instead of Venturing Crews. Girls troops have only been around 4 years.

We are in the same boat, have 3 Packs and 7 in my old district's territory. And 1 is a female troop. In the 7 counties of the current district, that is the only female troop in existence.

Regarding national, I have seen National ignore volunteers, and not only the unit serving Scouters, but big, national level ones. Anyone remember the national Philmont Committee finding out about the mortgage AFTER the fact, the Cub Scout 411 Committee that had the program they created changes about 18 month into it without any input, or the national Sea Scout commodore, finding out that national was looking at dropping Sea Scouting's age limit to 18 when parts of the CHURCHILL REPORT got leaked? What is national good for? Training has been dumbed down. Current uniforms are made of crappy material to the point that vintage uniforms with tons of glue on them go for almost a new shirt, and a vintage shirt without glue can cost as much as a new shirt. My oldest had a pair of new pants split with less than 2 months of wear on them. I am still wearing ODL pants and short that are over 20 years old. And they had lots of wear as I spent 6 summers on camp staff, and worked for BSA for a total of 5 years. My Gen 1 Switchbacks look older than my ODL pants due to the fading. My council sold 2 camps purely for the money. One camp was subsidizing the other two camp until they shut down the camp for 9 months. When the ranger died, Volunteers stepped up to the plate and took care of one camp. Heck the council moved all the equipment at the camp, including folks personal equipment that they left at the camp so they would not have to transport it back and forth, while it was still in use. As for the camp they are trying to build up, there are so many issues with it, that, many folks will not go to it, including former staffers. And when folks try to fix matters, they get run off. When my troop did summer camp in 2020 and we created our own program. Scouts had an absolute blast, but will not do another one because of the lack of MBs offered. Sadly one of my adults agrees with them. When I proposed doing a HA week on the AT to cut down on summer camp costs, even though that is something the Scouts wanted to do, the lack of MBs was the driving point. And my CC said it would be fun, but a waste of a summer. Sadly the focus on advancement and Eagle is causing folks to forget the fun and adventure.

Understatement of the year. There are so many rules, regulations, and hoops that have to be gone through, that folks are becoming disgusted. Look at the new rule on Cub Scout pack camping limiting to 1 night on their own, yet can do multiple if a district/council function. No rational was given for this, even when multiple people and on multiple websites, and even councils, have asked why the new rule is being implemented. The rule that limits 18-20 year olds in regards to what they can do, yet also demands that they follow all YP guidelines nonetheless, is a major concern for me as I have lost extremely knowledgeable and experienced Eagles because they do not see any value in continuing as Scouters and having to give up friends. In some cases they would not be able to associate with school mates and family members because of the new YP rules. In my long history with Scouts, Those 18-20 year olds are better Scouters with more knowledge, skills, abilities, and expereince than 98% of the new crossed over Cub Scout leaders. Heck I had Eagles under and over 18 help teach ITOLS back in the day. One of the not so positive national changes is the increase in fees, and allowing councils to match, them. And don't tell me Scouting is cheaper than Sports. I know that. My kids are involved in Scouts Because we cannot afford sports. Scouting is slowly becoming out of reach for folks. Add council fees, and it is ridiculous. And before you mention fundraising, we do it and 2/3 of the troop is on some type of assistance. The price is slowly becoming cost prohibitive to the folks that most need it.

My problem has been recently crossed over Cub Scouts from packs that did not properly use the transition program having a hard time understanding that the Scouts are in charge. Sometimes it takes time and counseling, but they usually get it and enjoy it. My BIGGEST (major emphasis) problems problems have been the parents of recently crossed over Cub Scouts. As far back as when I was a Scout, we had issues with parents not understanding the concept and interfering, including those who should have known better One case was the Eagle Scout and an experienced ASM telling me that they do not think the Patrol Method works and that the adults need to take charge and run things. These two were overheard by several Scouts telling their Scout he does not need to listen ot htem, only the adults.They eventually went to a troop just like that. Worst case was a group of parents who, despite being "trained" would ignore it and take over command of the Scouts. Those parents nearly killed the troop, and caused 2 families to leave. At least in the USA, our kids are so regimented, i.e. activities planned and scheduled by parents, strict extracurricular practices led by coaches, etc, that extremely few kids have any free-time and can think for themselves. Not scouting related, but when I was in charge of a job shadowing program at my former job, I could not tell you how many how many parents, including parents of college age students, filled out and scheduled shadowing for their child, without the child even knowing what to do. At my current job, I had parents organize their child's college schedules without understanding the process. In one case the plan by the mother would have resulted in no financial aid, and would have taken the student twice as long to complete the degree. In another instance, when COVID limited the number of people in our facilities, I had one mother screaming at me because she could not come in to tell us her daughter's schedule. She also did not know the process. We worked with the student, got everything set up properly for the student, and when she shows mom after leave, we get yelled at for screwing up her daughter's schedule. This is a college student and their mother.

I know someone who submitted multiple applications over a 5 year period, but was never registered. Council lost every single one of the applications, including the 3 hand delivered ones. When I finally pushed the issue at council for the 6th submission, they were registered for less than 3 months. Some SNAFU in IA 2.0 / SCOUTBOOK. caused every MBC to be unregistered in my council. They said the heck with Scouting after that. So yes, I knew an unregistered leader with YPT.

(sarcasm on) What's Venturing? (sarcasm off) Seriously I know in my area, you do not here about Venturing.. Some predicted that with the introduction of Girls into Scout Troops, venturing would slowly die off. Seems like the case. As for Sea Scouts, in my area they are growing. Then again Sea Scouting has traditionally been the red-headed step-child of Scouting, so it is much, MUCH more volunteer driven and led. Heck one long time SE didn''t even know what a Sea Scout was! Trust me, I know first hand that no Cubs will slowing kill Scouts. My troop has had no feeder pack for 10 years now. We are down to 6 actice Scouts, and will lose 1 soon to college.

Not all camps sold were "marginal." I know of one camp that until council shut it down for 9 months, was subsidizing the other 2 camps the council owned. Why sell it you ask? The camp was prime real estate, despite what the court appointed appraiser listed, and the PTB wanted the money. That camp paid the council's share of the lawsuit, and then some. And of course all the equipment that the OA and others had donated over the years was taken away while the camp was still in use. Heck the council took equipment that did not belong to them, stuff that volunteers owned and were using to maintain the camp since the council stopped maintaining it before the sale, despite it still being used. As for the other "marginal" camp sold, they had more attendance at that camp than the "primary" camp that they are keeping. Improvements were being made by the volunteers up to a week before the sale. The reason why folks at the unit level in my area have been opposed in the past was not because of camp sales, but rather customer service. As someone who volunteered at the council level of a Metro council, coming to a to work in a rural council that was larger geographically, but a much, much smaller population, there were challenges that my volunteers and I faced, that I would never have imagined. Customer service is a problem, and sadly over the years it has slowly gotten worse. Now folks in my area are begging for a merger. Customer service cannot get any worse.

Actually it is the reverse. Many shops are actually "council distributorships" meaning they are council owned and they have council employees running things. National shops actually rent space from the council and national pays the workers.

(sarcasm on) My council should be rolling in the dough. They sold one camp for over 10x the court appraised value, and that paid more their share of the settlement. (sarcasm off) Unfortunately councils will pass on their costs to the Scouts, making it more prohibitive for some folks. And some council are in denial about mergers. I am a rumor-monger for bringing that up at a public meeting. Funny thing is, so far all my "rumors" are turning out to be true. For that I am thankful to everyone here. I get more accurate and timely info here than in my council. Heck I found out about the 2017 membership survey here, and my SE was not going to do anything about it until others started posting it on social media.

If the answers go against their thinking, they will ignore the results. Look at Instapalms are the best example of National ignoring the volunteers polled.

Actually in one set of court documents, National plans to reduce the number of councils by 2/3s.

Folks, Dopes anyone know anything about the "special pathway to Eagle Scout for those whose journey was interrupted during their time in Scouting?" I have a Scouter who is a CSA survivor, and quit after being assaulted. He was not involved in the lawsuit as he did not beleive BSA was liable and his assailant has been dead a while now.

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes I am screaming in Joy at ya! I want justice for victims.

I will believe it when I see it.