Eagle94-A1

Actually I was referring to the Scout in question resisting advice and counseling and not my son. As for my my son resisting advice to appointing him APL, there is advice, counseling, and mentoring, versus coaching and dictating what you will do. I'll give you an example of the difference. Adults asking the PLC to come up with ways to fix the patrol problem is counseling, mentoring advising. Adults telling the PLC and Scout their terms of office is now 4 months,and instead of electing the SPL they will be electing the ASPL who will move up to SPL automatically is dictating. If my son wa asked to consider the Scout, that is one thing. But if it becomes you will appoint him APL, that is dictating.

Considering A) the announcement to change the election cycle from 6 months to 4 months surprised all of the youth and B) they also moved up the election a month so that the incoming PLC can go through "training" ( Not ILST but something an ASM is coming up with, don't ask not happy about it), several Scouts who had not considered running decided to run. Heck Middle Son was going to run unopposed, when someone said they would run at the last minute. But from his actions, from the way my son was describing it, he was more than a little miffed. And it wasn't just at my son, but his entire patrol.

@The Latin Scot I would compare the relationship between the Scout as APL and my son as PL to Monty and Ike. Monty tried to take over, tell Ike what to do, take credit for stuff Ike did until Ike one day had enough and reminded him that he was SHAEF and in charge. My son is pretty laid back, but one day did tell him he's the PL and they were doing things the way he said., @Gwaihir, I don't know about last night yet, but I know previous elections he was "upset" that neither his older son, nor this Scout has been elected to a POR. Older son has had the opportunity, but really doesn't seem to want the responsibility. In the past he was for term limits to "prevent the same people from getting elected over and over," and was one of the proponents of electing ASPL who moves to SPL. He was also for electing APL to move into PL, until I reminded him APL doesn't count for a POR and could actually hurt some Scouts, such as his son. That changed his mind about electing APL to move to the PL. He tried helping him previously when he was last PL, and the Scout was his APL, but the Scout didn't want his help. My son is at the stage of his Scouting career that he no longer needs a POR, but he is too young to be an JASM. But when no one else was able or interested in running against the Scout, he jumped in. He had major concerns about the Scout being PL. and @OldScout448, He dealt with it on his own once before. And things didn't improve. And the way the Scout was acting last nite, he has concerns about the Scout affecting the rest of the patrol. Plus there is the dad issue he is worried about. This is the same ASM who started to publically jump his case about doing things differently than what the troop has done when he was a Scout, but are not how things are suppose to be and I had to jump in. So because of the ASM dad, he wants to chat with the SM.

After last nite, I don't think my son is interested in helping him anymore to be honest. This wasn't the first time something like this happened. They took martial arts together years ago, and something the Scout did then broke the friendship up and they went their separate ways. 5 years later, he joins the troop and their friendship apparently was renewed. I think my son was planning to make him his APL again, he was my son's APL the last time he was PL, but refusing to shake his hand and the way he acted afterwards changed his mind.

What about 2020 or thereafter? And that is a serious question too. Let's face it BSA made the decision to go coed before the town halls were even announced. They had literature in the works and published in July 2017 that used gender neutral language. And Surbaugh's experience has been in Exploring/Venturing. As a former pro, I can tell you that being an Exploring/Venturing exec is a very limiting field for promotions.

After I posted about the troop elections and how good it felt, Oldest relayed to me an incident with one of the Scouts who did not get elected. Long story short, The Scout ran for SPL, ASPL, and PL against my son, and lost all three elections. Now I noticed he was quite red in the face, and looked like his eyes were bloodshot after the elections and at the end of the meeting. He has a history of crying, and I thought that was the case. Apparently that was not the case. Son told me he was extremely ticked off, made some smartaleck comments, refused to shake my son's hand when he offered it, ignored the entire patrol, and gave my son some negative vibes the rest of the meeting that made him uncomfortable to the point that he is going to talk to the SM about the situation next week. He has not picked his APL yet, but Son told me he was encouraged to think about having this Scout as his APL. Son didn't respond to that encouragement, but told me and his mother that after the way the Scout treated him and the patrol after the election, if he is forced to have the Scout as his APL, he will quit the troop. And that action is not something he has considered seriously with all the previous issues he and I have had with the troop. I discussed the matter briefly with Oldest. Reminded him that the Scout is now at a point in his Scouting career where he needs a POR for advancement, and APL will not count. So if he is encouraged to make the Scout his APL, that would be a valid, and tactful way of appointing who he wants. Plus I think the conversation with the SM will help too. In all honesty, my son ran for PL because he did not think the Scout would be a good PL. He is bossy, knows it all, smart alecky, and has not been dependable in the past. And I know many Scouts do agree with my son's assessment of the Scout because he has never held elected office before. In the past I have tried to talk to him,and it is like talking to a brick wall. He only listens to his dad who is also an ASM.

Ok I'm bragging one of my Scouts, one I've had since Tigers was elected SPL tonite. He's overcome some personal challenges, and I think convinced his peers that despite those challenges, he can get the job done. Another one of my Scouts who I have known for a long time ran for ASPL and lost. Listening to him speak and talk about how he has made mistakes, grew from them, and changed since first joining really hit home for me. He had the grace to concede the loss, and took it very well. He lost to another Scout who has faced some severe personal challenges, and needs Scouting now more than ever. Seeing him step up to the plate was heartwarming. But the best came last. Both my sons in the troop were running for PL of their respective patrols, and won. Further the Younger of the completed his First Class BOR, and can now go on the trip he's been wanting to do for a year now, the AT. Seeing these kids grow, mature, and complete goals is why I love Scouting.

1/2 of my book went for a swim on a canoe trip. Thankfully I had the 1/2 with my advancement records, and I made a copy of those "just in case." Turned out I needed those copies.

Upon reflection, go to the SM and/or CC. I was thinking of the situation my oldest was in a few months back where one of the ASMs was "commenting" on his performance as SPL in front of several Scouts and adults.1) Praise in public and criticize in private and 2) what was being commented on may be what the troop has done but is not how things are suppose to be done. Thankfully SM was there and broke up the "conversation" between the ASM and my son, and between the two of us. Thinking about it, CM seems to be jealous that your son was thought highly enough by his peers to be PL and not his son.I'm in the same situation. The ASM above is jealous that my oldest has been elected to both PL and SPL 2 times each now, but his sons have not held elected office yet. Keeps commenting about how his oldest will be the first Eagle he knows of to never hold SPL. And it is going to get interesting tonite. His younger son is running for SPL, ASPL, and PL. He was running unopposed for PL, and about to be automatically named PL, when my son jumped in the race because he feels the Scout is not ready for the job. Knowing the ASM, he's ticked.

As Calico and David said, this is a completely different issue now. Definitely need a polite and civil chat with the CM. If things still don't work out then SM/CC need to get involved. I had to deal with parents resenting one set of Scouts because their sons have not been elected. I'm polite and courteous. But do not mess with my sons.

When did the Brotherhood Hike become mandatory? Back when I received Brotherhood, it didn't exist. Sometime in the late 1990s or early 2000s it became an option or a recommendation. If I had to take a guess, they took it our in 2015 when the new Brotherhood Ceremony came out.

We have a very similar problem. CM is out of line. He is NOT registered with the troop, and has no authority over the Scouts. If there is no SPL, then the PL needs to got to the SM and discuss the matter with him. SM and CC need to have a discussion with the CM and nip the problems, i.e. CM's son camping with him, jumping on the PL's case when the son is not doing his fair share of the work, etc NOW or they will get worse.

That's because National is changing the rules, and it appears that it is to accommodate the girls. Since August 1, 1989, there has not been a gender requirement for any registered volunteer position, whether working with Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, Cub Scouts, Varsity Scouts, or Venturers. For those coed groups you needed any female over 21. They did not need to be registered however. Now you need a the CM or ACM to be female AND a female DL or ADL for each girl den. But no such requirement exists for fro a MAle CM or ACM and Male DL or ADL for a male den.

Found the video where National says there are no changes for all boy dens. 5:40 mark is the slide. screen capture below the link.

While not mentioned in the video, it is in the PowerPoint that went out back in December/January. I posted a screen capture of the slide stating that a registered female DL or ADL will be required for an all girl den, but a male DL or ADL is not required for an all boy den. In fact someone on FB asked why a male DL or ADL is not required for an all boy den prior to comments being shut off. If I can find the link tot he other thread with the screen capture, I'll post.

According to all the stuff provided to EA packs, the answer "NO." That is why I keep saying BSA has begun a double standard. Id doesn't matter if no males are with the boys, but a female MUST be with the girls. Why i am also concerend about "Linked Troops" meeting and camping together, no female no meeting or camping

Every bottle, whether Gatorade or Nalgene must be properly clean and sanitized in order to be reused.

Have not seen the new YPT2 training, but if it using the policies that the EA Cub Scout dens are following, and as reported by others who met with a national level person and asked about this, then YES, meetings with girls present will also require a registered female over 21 in attendance. Why I do not like the double standard that 2 females can work with all male dens, but not two males.

With the exception on 18-20 year old ASMs, who can only register as ASM or Unit Scouter Reserve, they need to camp. We have a troop locally that has 2 adults with health issues, and they go on camp outs. They may stay in a camper, but they are there.

Nalgene is out of my budget. But my middle son has one he won. Aluminum is OK. Had a canteen for years out of aluminum. But it is heavy. Reusing Gatorade et al bottles is enviromentally friendly, cheap, and comes with a drink

I have recycled Gatorade and Powerade bottles for years. Moved up to reusing Life Wtr bottles because A) 2 of their bottles will fit in a single pocket on my pack and B) my filer can attach to the bottle.

https://www.scoutshop.org/totin-chip-pocket-certificate-single-34397.html $0.19 each What I find hilarious is that it is now a restricted item requiring paperwork

I agree taking out a knife and damaging an expensive piece of electronics would be overkill. But I have seen people do it nonetheless. That is the parents' choice. But cutting a corner of a $0.19 card that can be easily replaced when re-earned is a completely different story IMHO 1) Thank you for your sevice. 2) we will have to agree to disagree. I cannot see you can compare cutting corners to true hazing.

Considering I know who wrote that comment on the blog and heard him talk about it, I can tell you it was made to show how BSA policies and literature is constantly changing, contradictory and confusing. One BSA official document, Bryan's Blog, is NOT stating that the practice of cutting corners of TOTIN" CHIP ( emphasis) is being denied. And many Packs use those policies in absence of specific Cub Scout ones, or to help Webelos transition to Boy Scouts. But then a change is made in another BSA document, 2017 BALOO Syllabus, stating that you cannot cut corners on Whittling Chip. As a former trainer, I can see where all these constant changes can cause confusion, especially for former Cub Scout leaders who are now Boy Scouters and are still following Cub Scout policies and not Boy Scout policies. I just checked out the current ITOLS syllabus, and no prohibition on cutting corners is in there. Regarding cutting corners as a form of hazing, please explain to me how talking to a Scout about a minor infraction and cutting a corner to serve as a reminder to do better is hazing? I admit singing for lost items is pushing it IMHO, but anyone who has been a pledge for a fraternity/sorority knows what hazing truly is. Anyone who has been to a service academy, or been through boot camp knows what hazing truly is. Cutting corners is not hazing.

It probably will.. But I forgot to mention the other reason for not switching, which is also the #1 reason, their friends. They do not want to leave them behind, even though they both have friends in that troop. They know it's on the table, but both want to try and change the troop from the inside. Last night's announcement got the middle son to run for PL, and after some consideration, oldest is running for PL again.