blw2

i see this as being extremely unit dependent some troops may want their scouts to bunk up together some troops may provide troop tents some troops tailgate camp next to a trailer, others do more backpacking or canoe type camping and it depends a good bit on local climates too....hot areas, cooler areas, etc.... Personally, I think a good 2 man to 3 man tent is a good choice for a young scout. Not an expensive one for the first go I bought my son as a gift an Alps Mountaineering Merimac 3, as an example. It has worked out well I think. Not too expensive. he has room to share, but it's not too big, well ventilated for our climate. You can get descent enough tents from walmart or almost anywhere...even Big Lots.... for that first tent. I would have gone a different route for him if the troop was more of a non-tailgate camping troop.....something lighter and more backpackable....

speaking of camp staff...not attending Scouters.... I think I remember seeing an RV or two at our Camp Shands, parked in the back corner of a "staff only" area near the shooting ranges and near a bathroom. This was several years ago at some Cub Scout thing...not at a summer camp. ...so maybe.....but I'm not aware of any sort of program" or promotion... Seems like a great idea to me though. As an RV'er myself I could totally imagine a retired full time RV'er and ex-scouter, willing to take a few weeks or more to work with scouts or support a camp in return for a free place to park.... I can totally see myself doing that if I were retired and my kids were grown..... teach a merit badge class or two, do a service project or two, hang out in a nice scout reservation for a few weeks....

I should have added earlier, that I'm fairly sure (but can't recall an exact case) that we have had times where a board was delayed because the scout was not in full uniform at the meeting. It's not like the meeting started, just that the SM or someone would have just told him that he can't go for a BOR like that, let's do it next week.... No, that's not the case. Typical set-up is 3 or sometimes 4 board members seated behind a table. SM or ASM escorts scout front and center, and is introduced. For young scouts, the CC or Adv chair will usually give them a little coaching schpeel about standing up straight, being formal and respectful, etc... try to make them understand that they can be relaxed, but they should remain formal.... not in so many words, but that is the gist then ask them if they can recite the oath, law, outdoor code then the questioning begins... exactly my thoughts as well. It wouldn't be sittin' around with feet propped up, munchin' on smores... but comfortable and relaxed for the less than ideal indoor setting, if it were up to me, I'd have the scout stand for the oath, etc.... then everyone would be seated, no table forming a symbolic wall, unless maybe if we were all just sitting around a table I believe this practice was started as the troop norm long before the current folks were involved..... but they disagree with the idea of more relaxed settings. They think it should be like a job interview.... to which i say I never had a job interview where I stood the whole time.... no matter, they don't get it.... regardless....while I don't agree with the practice, don't let this picture I've painted make it seem like the scouts are standing at attention getting dressed down military style.... It's approaching that in concept but it's not that rigid. Not that bad.

this whole "uniform for BOR" thing is interesting to me. Our CC and generally our troop "culture" is full uniform for BOR. I sat on once where we sat and waiting for the scout, who was scrambling to borrow another scout's belt (and maybe necker and socks) I was very uncomfortable with the idea that "we" were making this scout jump through those silly hoops, and while I didn't make a federal case of it I believe that I sad so to the board while we were waiting.... I would have much rather have just run the board, and maybe steered a few questions his way about the uniform he's wearing..... just to provoke some thought and discussion. We do some other things too that I don't really care for, such as making the scout stand the whole time... hummm, come to think of it I think that may have been one of the last boards I did and it was a while ago.

this is how the camp we went to was.... something like 4PM start.... but considering the scouts had to find their way back to camp first, and then perhaps a few duties there, maybe throw in some "homework" from "school".... then it was just about time to get the uniform on for dinner I know that it's not about me or for me.... but even as an adult with really "nothing" to do i never dipped so much as a toe in the lake all week.... and I really wanted to get on that blob thing they had down there too!

I tend to agree with most everything above....except the clean underwear bit.... I'd qualify this one point...it depends! A lot of people brag on these programs, and i fully can imagine that some can be great for some My son went to his 1st summer camp last year, and signed up for the camp's 1st year program. He's not going to summer camp this year, much to my dismay.....he had no interest. that pretty much sums it up. He had been a cub tiger through webelos, and was an early crossover into the troop & had been very active in the troop for many months prior so a whole lot of what they had covered he'd already done through webelos akela weekends, cuborees, den meetings, troop campouts, troop trainings, etc... so that program might have been great for a brand new scout that had never been exposed to they gave him a very limited selection of elective MB classes he could take along with the program.... most of which were not very exciting (for him anyway) his day was filled with mostly classroom work. Might have been in an open air pavilion, but it was still lecturing and classroom the camp offered very little free time for things like open swim, patrol level or troop level activities, or just hanging with friends, etc... I went along on the trip as a scouter for the troop. As I roamed the camp through the days.... I saw a whole lot of bored to tears scouts sitting in pavilions listening to lectures. Wasn't all bad though....some crafting where a few scouts looked interested and some action at places such as down at the waterfront or in "wilderness survival". Personally, I feel like 1 -maybe as many as 3 MB classes would be a good target (as long as there was plenty of freetime available for the scouts to choose on a whim.... let's go swimming...or let's try the climbing wall.... or ....) ....but that's just me, not him. Everyone is different.

That's a good one, makes the cub uniform look snazzy in my opinion...hope he wears it proudly my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I believe that patch is also considered temporary, but I do remember for sure that it needed to be re-earned each year...at least it did a few years back. so it's not like it needs to be sewn on solidly

thanks I think I'll try on a pair next time I come across them So looking at their web site .....you are suggesting the classic, and not the Cloud or Volv? I bought a pair of chaco water shoes, outcross I believe... I like them well enough but bought them a bit too small in a bonehead moment. good without socks as a water shoe but I wouldn't go large distances in them....

I took a glance, will read more later I have been reading http://www.trailjournals.com/ lately basically a similar type of daily posting format...except yours is much nicer in terms of formatting and photos. I've also been watching some video blogs on you tube as well.... I'l plan on following them and cheering them on!!!

as a parallel, I have see these aggressive types push their ideas and choices so strongly....and carry in a majority rules mentality...that the "others" can get left out in a hurry. so one idea is to try to find ways of encouraging consensus rather than win/loose

a bit of a side track...but not really all that much I suppose curious about which type of sandals currently you like to use for trail hiking? I've been reading a lot lately about backpacking, and have been gearing back up hoping to do some again. A long while back I read Andrew Skurka's book about if you pack is light enough trail runners are the way to go...light weight and dry faster I tend to wear sandals a lot, and have been reading discussions about flip flops, crocs, and such for use as camp shoes and to a lesser degree for fording streams along the AT and other trails. Since I wear flip flops in daily life when I can, it really strikes me that a good sandal would be great even for use on perhaps all but the roughest trail sections So I'm interested in what you like for backpacking...

I think the thing to take away from the guideline term in this case is that this file is the graphic pullout in the guide to safe scouting, meant I think as a summary to the accompanying rules in that book that go into the detail

agreed stosh It doesn't have to be about the distance I would add that i see no reason it would have to be on council property either. Plenty of state parks have group camp areas with an established latrine and running water...so that it could be considered "front country" I wish our scout troop would do this sort of thing...

ok, the way I read it is this they can hike they cannot overnight backcountry they can do den overnights so backpack between "front country" campsites and all is good in the world!

I'll admit to only skimming this lengthy thread, so perhaps this has already been addressed But I think the crux of the question is a semantical error. I believe what was meant by the OP does it have to be a registered scouter present, or can just an average parent do? committee member in this case = to SM, ASM, or Committee Member

not a SM here, but I have taken great pains to give son space at meetings and outings. He's wanted me a long on a few camping trips, and I probably would have gone on more except I am really making a point not to go even when i want to. I might be in the room or area, but I am not interacting with him much or directing him at all. I had an interesting interaction a couple times.... when as Treasurer I have felt compelled to attend a meeting because I know I have business...but he was either sick or just didn't want to go...This happened mostly when he just didn't want to go, he strongly objected to my going as well. I'm not sure, but I think he didn't want attention called to the fact that he was ditching. I can't say I was joyed about going without him but I did. We have some that are at every meeting and on every trip with their sons.....kinda like 3rd year WEBELOS, or really better than that but they are often interacting.... and others that are always there but do a fairly good job of minimal interactions, letting other scouters deal with their sons....

we use troopwebhost. They started using it before my time, but I think only a year or two before...

true enough..... true enough.... this edges on my experience often it's not quite that toxic though.... which also nudges up against what I experienced.... nobody else is willing to do the job, only because the hole is already filled. No hole, no reason to step up and fill it.

I can certainly understand the concept of the benefits of a "retired" scouter sticking around. But I see it as a very dangerous and fine line to dance.... and a positive outcome would depend greatly on the specific personalities involved. When I was in the pack, we had a cadre of several scouters in various positions that were burnt out. They were coming through with their 2nd or even 3rd sons. In some ways they were in a rut doing things the way they were always done. They didn't want to do it any more and would step down and even step away into "inactive" committee positions or even no position at all for a while, but they would sometimes come back and second guess, re-engage, and instead of trying to help they would try or even take back over when things started to change away from what they did....even though they were still burnt out. They just couldn't let go... I spoke with a scouter once at U of Scouting about pack level positions. I can't remember the specifics of their unit's practices for all positions., but they had some more or less standard practices such as The CM would be a parent I think it was maybe the 1st year WEBELOS den. This would be a person that had been around a while so they knew the drill. The ACM would come from the Bear Den, grooming for the CM position next year. The retired CM would be in the second year WEBELOS den by this time.... still around for a few months to support, suggest, help.... I think other key positions had similar methods.... I still think the basic idea behind this is good. The tenure is known up front and is clearly defined and has an end point. Scouters aren't green and just dumped into major roles without support, etc... The other ling I like is that it allows others to have a chance, brings in fresh ideas, etc... We struggled with not having people willing to step up, so on that front this might have been difficult without enough volunteers to keep things moving, but I wonder if this was set as the expectation, things might have been a whole lot less "stale' and this might have actually worked out

Our troop scouters broke up the "patrol of new scouts" because they saw it as not working when most of them after a year had not made TF..... while many of their sons under the old program had made FC within that year. what happened is now we have groups of friends broken up and separated, and even a worse sense of patrol spirit or unity.

our units (pack and troop) generally don't retain. I feel from what I have observed, that once the skin is out of the game the energy level for it drops a bit. I see that as both good and bad. The high energy parent will tend to be around too much. I think we have a few higher ranking scouts that have never or perhaps rarely been on a scouting event without dad but on the other hand the energy into being involved can be good for the unit, for obvious reasons. We had one dad, that was SM, and also CC for the pack....long after he had any sons in the pack. I admired his giving volunteer spirit, but he never attended pack meetings of events & we didn't have committee mtgs very frequently either...and therefore he wasn't as effective as an involved parent might have been. I have thought a lot about these SM's that are perpetual. It can of course be a good thing for the boys. Thy can offer the experience, and will often be tempered a bit with a bit of "mellow" that comes from experience. But they also are, in a way, in the way blocking a path for other highly motivated parents that want to be involved and want to make change for the good. As it is with a troop, there are really only 2 or maybe 3 positions that can affect any real change. If there are one or more of those key positions filled by someone for 10, 20 years or more.... that is a lot of parents coming and going through that pipe that never have the opportunity to discover that treasure of being a scouter in a key position. Also, I see that some scouts remain in scouting because their parents are scoutmaster, or otherwise involved..... now it may very well be true that this is not a great reason for a boy to be a scout.... but at the same time he's a scout and will hopefully be getting at least some good from it.... now, how many scouts didn't stay in scouting because their parents didn't have an opportunity to fill a key position, but instead were relegated to some floater position in the unit so they didn't stick with or attend like they might have otherwise?

yeah, NFC "rebranded" their recruiting night a few years back. They wanted us to use their documents I really didn't see much of an issue there...but what I didn't like was that they forbid us from collecting pack dues or pack fees at the recruiting night. We could only collect the national dues and Boys Life fee. To me, that was just goofy and created issues.

couldn't agree more. I also agree that as CM you shouldn't have to touch the money. It's not really your concern. When i was CM I stayed as far from it as I could. I didn't want this treasurer job at the troop, but that is where they needed the help and so I figured I would be cooperative. You asked about a spreadsheet. We use an online service called troopwebhost. As treasurer I like it because it gives complete transparency. parents can log in and see their scouts personal funds. Committee members can log in and see all the transactions that I'm entering, complete with attached receipts. And it generates several different reports that are helpful. A simpler approach might be something like google sheets, that can be shared with others.... But again, I mean this as a suggestion for your committee, not for you as CM to touch....

whenever I see mention of ILST, I think of this post http://scoutmastercg.com/fifteen-minute-patrol-leader-training/ Now this was obviously written to the audience of an Adult Scout Master....but I wouldn't think there would be any harm in a SPL taking a look Actually, that web site has a huge amount of great information you could look through, that you might find helpful.

Our troop does pretty much the same...except we don't have GPS's to offer, and I have never seen or heard of allowances for camera use. phones ok on the trip but are left in the car for the duration. Personally, if I'm ever asked I will say I am opposed to it as we have it. Don't get me wrong, I see the point of it...and I strongly recognize a turn for the better with my kids when they are away form tech at home but I see the value in the tools available to scouts, & even though adults have the "sometimes" legit excuse of responsibility it is hypocritical in my view and besides the "legit" tools.... there is also teh entertainment value during down times. Just because we old folks might like to see the scouts sitting around after dinner having fun together playing cards or checkers or some other thing, that's us projecting onto them.....and that aint the point of this in my view