blw2

My 2 cents.... I'd prioritize an outdoor committee person over advancement. Someone to organize campouts or trips. ...because I see that as the core or most fun part of the program and it deserves attention....and the DL's probably track their own advancement anyway What we did the den leaders pretty much handled tracking the advancement and awards for their own dens. I tried really hard and eventually found a person to be our advancement chair, with the one of her primary roles of buying the patches and stuff and helping the DL's get organized with it. My approach was that the DL's are among the hardest working scouters and I tried to do anything I could to help streamline for them. Well the advancement chair would need the info way ahead of the meetings in order to arrange a trip to the shop, but the DL's would almost always wait till the last minute anyway....usually what would happen is A DL in need of stuff would message out 0-1 days ahead asking if anyone is going to the store...sometimes a person that happened by would message out I'm going does anyone need anything. Sometimes it worked but most times it didn't....but the advancement chair would be bypassed 99% of the time anyway so it didn't work. For outings, we tried to "camp" 2-3 times per "school year" + 1 overnight sleep-in type trip...and would fish for a parent or scouter to chair the event (make reservations, organize the roster, make communications, etc..) It got to the point where we camped less and did less because nobody would step up to do it.....but I found this sad because this is the thing the scouts enjoyed most and where memories were made. For us the sleep in events were always the biggest hit (sleep on the aircraft carrier, sleep under the shuttle at Kennedy Space Center, Sleep with the whales at Sea World, etc....).

I would wonder if this is car camping, canoe camping, or backpacking. If car, or maybe canoe, and if a once off not to be a frequent thing.... I might consider this store-bought option. They work well https://relianceproducts.com/products/sanitation/191.html or as an alternative, for short trips or where you might have an option to dump regularly... see if anyone in the unit has a boat or small camper and might have one of these http://www.thetford.com/product/porta-potti-260b/

sidetrack I guess, but what do you mean by #5? #10 is interesting. I don't recall reading about any issues there one way or the other. We are not currently carrying any extra insurance.

I think this is a common area of confusion, and perhaps misapplication of the roles as intended. In the real world, I think it really boils down to the people involved, and who is willing to do what....and whatever that shakes out to be is kind of ok To answer your question as to what we did (& I'm not by any means saying I think this is the way it should be, because I do not think that it is.) Our CC did very little except to call and preside over committee meetings. Kind of acted like a moderator or mediator in a way. He never attended pack meetings or events and did not have a scout in the pack (he was also the Scoutmaster of the troop) As CM, I planned pack meetings and acted as em-cee / clown for the pack meetings I fielded questions from everyone, did my best to encourage Den Leaders, did my best to solicit help from other parents and scouters to pick-up an outing to run or an event to lead.... tried to encourage the den leaders to have skits or something for the meetings, did most of the paperwork, etc... To boil down my understanding of how it "should be" I think of it as the CC is in charge of the unit. You are the one that hires the CubMaster and Den Leaders, you direct the program from the high administrative level behind the scenes, and you set the "tone" or "direction" The CM is more of the face or figure head, and is the entertainment. The person doing the scouting stuff, and is planning (with the help of others) the "monthly show" & events and seeing them through. and the DL's are taking that teaching and entertainment down to the actual rank and advancement level on a "weekly show" basis It's important for the CC and the CM to be on the same page and in agreement. I think a really great read for you and your CM, even though it's not about pack life but instead in a boy scout troop, is "So Far So Good a New Scoutmaster's Story" by Clarke Green I like this because it gives a good taste of two things 1) the relationship between the CC and Scout Master (sort of like the CM, but a little bit different) 2) give you a look way ahead into the future to see where these scouts are going towards...the Patrol method. I wish that I had know more about the patrol method when I was CM. I think I could have done a better job using parts of the concept at the pack level, and especially helping the Bears and WEBELOS

ha ha....no, it doesn't sound like the same place. We were at Skymont in Tennesee I hope nobody got stung!

Yeah, I have often pondered this. My gut tells me that there are just not all that many folks that are a) hungry enough for scouting to sit back and "gossip" like this b) and have the time to do it c) and are "digitally inclined" to dally around in an online forum setting I think there are a lot of energetic volunteers out there that are willing to put their hour a week in face to face with their scout and their unit, but they have a limit Many don't go to round tables regularly, and this in my mind is sort of like a modern twist to the round table. Some of these folks do attend round table, participate on district and council level stuff, etc... and put in much more than their hour a week. And if you figure a few percent of those folks do go online.....and add to that a few percent of folks like me that no longer regularly attend traditional RT's but are still interested and energetic.... but this number gets split between several different online options...blogs, podcasts, etc... so maybe it's about all that can be expected? It is surprising though. Other forums on other hobby topics are much more active

yes, I think it's helpful helpful to brainstorm ideas helpful in knowing that we aren't alone in some of these problems helpful as a way to just think about scouting and scouting type stuff every now and then helpful to see questions from others, that might not be something we ever even thought of before... thinking outside the box ....and helpful to read about a success story like yours every now and then. For many folks, those don't happen very often. Some folks have a personality type geared to looking for problems, dissecting problems, etc... in a way to be positive to other personality types this often seems very negative on many levels but to that first person it's not meant to be, and not taken as negative at all....

YES, I really do feel like the focus is more on showing that girls can do it. and that's not all bad, but it's not all together altruistic either.... Since I posted earlier in this old thread, my youngest is now a daisy scout and my wife the assistant troop leader. It really is a huge disconnect that my two daughters have to be in a different troop. They have different weekends at the same camp, etc... and I'm still left with this feeling that while I'm spending this time with my son, it seems like I'm avoiding spending time with them. I hope they understand the truth....I think they do. and on another related note, in the book I recently finished, "Rocks in my Backpack" there were some very interesting stories about how this scoutmaster's troop back in the 1970's did a lot of joint high adventure stuff with a GS troop. Seems like it was a big hit for a number of years until it was kiboshed by a "concerned adult"

I never really understood the breakout into subforums all that much I log in, look at posts since my last visit....and never know where they are. It's just more work for me when I want to make a new thread, to make reasonable effort to get it into the right place answered about the cot in your other thread

I looked long and hard at them...but never tried one. I liked the idea for warmer weather camping where the air circulation would be nice. In the end, I figured that for the money, it's really just too heavy and too complex.

oh, one more comment about school visits... back when i was CM, my best recruiting year was when the Field Director was filling in for the vacant DE position, and visited our CO's school for a recruiting drive. He was a really nice guy as I recall, and I guess he had good energy that day and seemed to imply to the young would-be cub scouts that they could shoot BB guns all the time, and they even got to camp in the local NFL stadium or minor league baseball stadium and watch movies on the jumbotron. Had a lot of scouts join..... then drop not too much later when they discovered that we don't do that stuff every week....or even every month......or even every year......

I'll preface by saying that I personally have no idea what I would do differently, except to encourage the troop(s) to embrace the "disorganization" of letting the scouts OWN THEIR TROOP. with the goal of encouraging them to run a program that the scouts themselves enjoy. if they don't enjoy it, why would they invite their friends? that being the only recruiting tool that makes sense to me personally..... scouts inviting other scouts (and to a lesser degree happy parents inviting other parents) Even though I couldn't figure out a way to really implement it well back then, I've had a gut feel about this idea for a long time, dating back to my days as CM and ACM in the pack.... and recently, I really liked what Clarke Green had to say on this topic of recruiting http://scoutmastercg.com/scoutmaster-podcast-342-recruiting-scouts/

and pulling up the rear...North Florida council as of just a couple minutes ago notified us in a "newsletter" email.... Tour and Activity Plan Terminated The BSA’s Tour and Activity Plan is terminated effective April 1, 2017. There is no required new process, policy or procedure. Units will no longer need to file any trip forms of any kind. Scouters are reminded to conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations and policies. Activity Planning and program execution has not changed – parent permission to take youth on a trip is still required, program requirements for annual Health and Medical records for all participants, Cub Scout camping is still limited to council-approved locations, etc. BSA has several planning tools such as Guide to Safe Scouting, Sweet 16 of BSA Safety, Commitment to Safety, etc. A flexible risk assessment strategy has also been adopted for your use which is summarized in the Guide to Safe Scouting or the Enterprise Risk Management Guidebook. More Information

at summer camp last year, our troop was placed in the last of their sites to have the old wooden pallet platforms. They were in the process of replacing with concrete as I understand it. Anyway, these old and worn-hard pallets were capped with the oldest collection of small wall tents. Full of holes, missing door ties, etc... But the thing was, these were infested with daddy long legs there were a few other spiders too but not many.... We have a few scouts pretty timid with spiders and it was "entertaining".... Saw a lot of personal growth that weekend with these guys.

curious....have you read it? Is it more of a memoir, telling his stories ....or purely inspirational?

@@LeCastor if you catch this...I'm still wondering how you used it. Did you read the transcript or just take some excerpts from it....or did you play the video?

and then i should add that the follow-up would be to stand firm, and politely decline any and all that end up do trying to register.

Just say please, and be direct. I'd say that if the key three are all in agreement, there would be no need to piddle around it. Just tell them, "we'd like them to stop please. We are not intending to recruit lions." If the unit's key three aren't on the same page, then I see problems with it and no winning that one.

I meant his book is fiction, not the idea

well, yes.... and actually I tried to hint and advise him on several occasions to do just that.... that his job is to support his scouts.... to make his PL look good...... constructively show his PL how to do it... etc.... He was disappointed, but also understood that the other guy was....well more charismatic, for the lack of a better word.... & so that wasn't really the show stopper. And he certainly wasn't trying to sabotage in any way shape or form.... it was more about being lazy....and "if he doesn't have to do it then why should I?" But right out of the gate, he hears the adults say in a very direct fashion..... "you can't hold the job if you don't attend the training." period and then they with the very next breath let a scout take and hold the job without the training. He's 11 but he aint stupid. He see what it is. then, add to that scribes that do not much of anything, librarians that do not much, webmaster that does what exactly.... and he's being taught by troop guides and instructors who are just reading out of the book like they would at school because the "have to"...and not inspiring or leading in anyway. and apparently even as PL, he tried to make a few suggestions at PLC and was shot down or treated like an underling rather than an equal at the PLC table. All I was trying to get at with all of this was an example of how the idea of new scouts hanging together isn't what kills it and makes the "NSP" underperform. I think that it could be more form lack of encouragement and instruction...and lack motivation. I liked in Clarke Green's book how once the scouts realized that they really do have permission to make decisions, that their confidence and excitement soared.... and yeah I know that's a work of fiction, but I saw the opposite approach in action and so I believe it's possible.

I think I bought it used on amazon but not too long ago I saw it on sale at scoutstuff.org....or maybe that is where I bought it. Can't remember for sure.... $99 wow, I should have kept better care of it! Been throwing my copy around in the truck, and eating lunch with it. A bit worn and dog eared now.

On this side trail of new scouts as patrol leaders... I think it's much more complex than to just state that it won't work..... I have some recent experience with this. Our troop formed a NSP when my son's group joined. Troop rule is that any elected or appointed leader must take the ILST, which the adults put on right after the elections. well, it was interesting to see my son's excitement. you see, his patrol wasn't fully formed yet as they some scouts were trickling in right around election time so even though my son and another scout were joined, their patrol didn't elect a PL till a few weeks after the normal elections.... but my son and this other scout were around for the ILST to get a leg up ion getting the job, my son was gung-ho to take the class. The other scout did not. a few weeks tick by, and the other scout is elected by the group to be PL. He was more dynamic and the boys follow him.... so the "untrained" PL appoints my son to be his APL. So things are pretty much as you might expect for two greenhorns "leading" a bunch of greenhorns. Well actually the PL really didn't do much of anything and had no energy for it. My son's energy was squelched by his defeat, then seeing his friend go untrained and skate by doing nothing.... so in the end he didn't do anything either But the interesting part was this They didn't fail necessarily because they were new, didn't know, didn't try, etc... well the didn't know was a big part of it.... as well as an element of lazyness kicking in when they found out that work was involved.... but I think the bigger part was discouragement. Typical adult lead stuff squashed that momentum that I saw in my son really quick. (and it wasn't all from adults, although I think it was mostly adult lead trickle down...) I'm convinced that if these boys were heard, and really allowed to lead and represent their patrol on the PLC.... encouraged to propose and do what they wanted....then I'm confident that my son's energy would have blossomed. Instead they were smothered So, the short of it is that even though this NSP didn't blossom in the perspective of adults anyway, I still do not think that the concept is bad necessarily. Only bad implementation.

So I've mentioned reading this book a few times lately in various posts. Well, I finally finished it today over lunch. I highly suggest it. If you are here, you are interested in scouting and scouting stories so you will enjoy this book. The short of it is, this guy was a scout in the 1940's. Became a SM as a young adult and led a few units through a very outdoor adventure oriented program through something like 40 years. It's divided up into short stories, which makes it an easy read.... with a good amount of chuckles every few pages. Some of it is a bit dated, in that there were things done that I cannot even imagine being considered today, but in that you also get a taste of what scouting used to be in a way, too... and he had some great co-ed stories too, with some coed adventures with a GS troop, and then later with an explorer post Seems like they did a lot of backwoods type backpacking and canoe trips, some winter adventures too. As a scouter in a tailgate/ troop trailer plop camping troop....It really struck me how great folks out west must have it, with lots of really great options of places to go. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2711721-rocks-in-my-backpack

Here's what looks like a good tip to me.... http://scoutmastercg.com/keep-your-camping-gear-dry/ Yes, some of the best and most memorable trips are the ones with weather.... It seems more miserable when planning for it, than it actually is often times. My experience is very low turn out with the cubs, when weather is foretasted.... as in so low it was only me and son in one case, and in another only me a den leader and our sons..... these were council camps so it was ok and we didn't have to cancel out of lack of interest. Pack only trips a different story.....

yeah, well a little bit.....but still plenty of options 1) kinda big for one patrol, but that's an option 2) 5 + 6 3) 4 + 7 are all potential patrol sizes outside of that probably not a great idea but there are a few more..... .....and then those patrols could be made up of many different combinations of the individual scouts.... (ie John, Bill, Dave, Bob, and Ben in a patrol together, OR John, Steve, Pat, Ben, and Jake in a patrol together, OR .......) I'm extremely rusty on my permutation calculations.... but If I'm doing it correctly, its maybe 462 combinations with some limit on patrol size above say 4 or 5