SSScout

" I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now; let me not defer it or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again." =Stephan Grellet=

First, I would make sure the Troop Committee or at least the CC meets with the CO rep and understands WHY the split is desired. Money problems? Irresponsible behavior somehow? Difference of philosophy? Personal insult not perceived? They want a different youth group? Like he said... Part on good terms, as best you can... What Eaglebeader said, and everone else previous. Charter Orgs? Cast around to the Scout parents. The Scout Grandparents. The school principal. The local Radio station. Keep the conversations going and the ears open. Someone will know someone who has heard from someone else. A door will open. Have faith. In our council (and some others I know of), here are some Charter organizations: Churches and temples and synagogues (could you accept being chartered by a faith not your own?), PTAs, private schools, volunteer fire companies, Lions clubs, American Legions, VFWs, Moose, Rotary, Kiwanis, private businesses, the local hospital (thru its community outreach department). Like Bob the Tomato said, "it's for the kids"... TiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

I like that. It bears repeating... "Have high expectations - scouts will strive to meet them. Have low expectations - they will meet those also." Perhaps this applies to the Adult Leaders also?

I am always amazed how Scouts always fail to seek out the Hostel in a given area. The International Youth Hostel organization was founded back in the 1920s and 30s to foster international travel and friendship by creating inexpensive accomodations. Recently,it was finally admitted that the Youth in the title was misleading, inas much as many of the hostel users were young in spirit only, the name was recast as "Hosteling International". The Washington Hostel is truly downtown, at 1009 11th St. NW. walking distance to almost all the monuments and a Metro stop is nearby for further travel. Hostels are inexpensive because of the simple accomadations. Hostelers usually share some housekeeping chores before they leave. Some hostels have kitchens to share. Hosels do require membership to stay,and you can do it with individual memberships, family, or group. Perhaps your Troop or Patrol could join as a group. There are also hostels in Baltimore and neaar Harpers Ferry. Contact: www.hiwashingtondc.org , 202.737.2333. Check'em out before you check in! Next in line would be the Greenbelt Park, National Park service, very popular campground. but you must walk about 2 miles to the nearest Metro station, or drive. Close to CollegePark, MD. And on the other side of the city is Little Bennett Regional Park, close to I270. Drive down to Shady Grove Metro Station. Nice group camp grounds, all the usual camp amenities. Between Frederick, MD and Gaithersburg. www.littlebennettcampground.com 301.972.9222 AAAND There's Camp William B. Snyder, near Haymarket, VA. New camp of the National Capitol Council, tent platforms, trails, nature preserve, pool in season. Very nice. Only real draw back is the traffic on I66, should you really want to go into our nations capitol. But what's a trip for, if not to seek out a little adventure, eh? Check out the NCAC website: www. boyscouts-ncac.org 301.530.9360 Tell us how the trip goes! YiS

I have no argument with any of the thoughts presented so far. I think we are all in agreement that it is a good thing to teach our young'ns good from bad, give'm consequences for not doing what we think is "the right thing", understand they will make some bad decisions and forgive'm acordingly. BUT... What is the difference in the TEACHING that leads one person to run into the burning house and perhaps give their life to save another, while someone else sacrefices their life to kill others? The first is universally named a hero, while the second might be called a hero in one cultural context and a mass murderer in another. Yet both have made "ethical" (moral?) decisions consistant with their cultural upbringing. That's one extreme end of the spectrum. Is it purely 'fear', whether of Sister Mary Mathew or your dad or the law or your g(G)od? Is it example? I remember once having an adult friend of my father APOLOGIZE to me, a mere Scout, for a mistake he had made that only slightly affected me. But I remember that apology yet, so many years later, as an example of taking responsibility for ones actions, good or ill. I was once told that the Hebrew people were so concerned with following God's commandments (and if you read enough of the Bible, I think you'll realize there were ALOT more than ten) to the letter, they lost sight of the spirit behind them. Is that part of the equation? Wow, how does something that seems so natural, now seem so complicated? 'Course maybe I'm worried about the wrong thing. Maybe encouraging boys to return lost wallets or do their assigned chores willingly or admitting that requirement 2B of the merit badge was never done is different than not hitting your tent mate or willfully killing that blacksnake. Wha'dya think, eh? Should I drop a couple bucks in that beggars hat or just not make eye contact as I walk by? And how did Scouting fail those boys that grew up to be the child abusers mentioned lately in the "Headlines" section? "Truth is much more convenient. You have so much less to remember." YiS

Thank you. Fuzzy: I think the questions are almost always more important than the answers. I think we (our society) loses sight of why our enemy is like he/she is at our greater peril. If we only want to destroy them, then we lose the possibilty of ultimately convincing them of our friendship (or is that something we really want?). Do we prefer them DEAD or our possibly forgiven FRIENDS? I ask the questions because 1) I do not pretend to fully understand the possible answers and 2)I like to hear the further wisdom of my fellow forumites. You all make me THINK, which leads me to play the Devils Advocate on occasion. YOU help ME understand myself... ( BTW, I recommend "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain) So if the suicide bomber sees his/her sacrifice as somehow benefitting his/her family/community/nation (if only by example?),HOW has he/she been taught to come to this point? What makes our rules/examples/teaching/Scoutmaster Minutes/counseling effective in getting our boys (and girls!) to "sacrifice" their lives to BUILD rather than DESTROY? I just finished watching the last two episodes of "Victory at Sea" with our son. This is part of his home schooling, history class. Trying to explain to him WHY the young Kamakaze pilots thought it necessary/appropriate to dive their planes into the atacking US ships was hard. Drive off the enemy and defend the home islands at all cost? Glory and honor in death? Reward in heaven? Loyalty to the Emporer? Loyalty to the other soldiers/pilots that had gone before? After what the Japanese military had done to their neighboring nations, son wanted to know why these pilots (not so much older than son) would even WANT to fight the US. Didn't they know how wrong they (the Japanese) had been? (of course not). Try to explain the South East Asia Coprosperity Sphere and the Japanese belief in their "destiny"... Back to Scouts: "...gather the clan that cheerful service brings to fellow man..." I think I remember that right. The self centered boy (gimme my Gameboy back!) may eventually get "out of himself" if we keep at it. Fuzzy: My "moral code"? I've often felt that if everyone who espouses Christanity actually followed Christs example and teaching, there could be no wars... YiS.

Howdy, Prairie. Sit ye down and pass the pipe 'round (metaphoric pipe. I don't smoke. Sometimes wish I did, just for the image). Welcome to the forums. Another wall hanger: "Good work is love made visible" YiS

So... The person who stops to change a strangers tire... The person who dedicates their life to inspiring and helping the poor and sick, using all their resources (to the point of being nearly destitute)... The person who seeks to bring peace to war torn areas, at the cost of his life (remember Tom Fox? and others)... The person who makes billions (with a B)of dollars, by his inventing and organizing skills, who then finances many other people to do many good things (by our own definition of "good")... The father who sleeps less than he should to work at three jobs so his children will wake up to a college education... The fire fighter who RUNS up the stairs into the burning house... These folks are different from the fellow whose first question is "whats in it for me?" in what way? And how (HOW) has the car bomber been convinced that his/her action will benefit... who? Not him/herself... his/her family? nation? How (not why) , how is it done?

Dirt Scouts! I do like that... Must 've seen our Troop after a trip out the AT... YiS, big E...

So is the complaint with the Scout or the MBCounselor? If it is known that some requirements have been slid over, perhaps the problem is not with the Scout, who trusts that the fellow PASSING him is correct. "Oh Doctor, before you remove that appendix of mine, I'd like to ask about that diploma on your wall from the College of Medicine of East Calamarikistan. Is it a good school? My son might like to study there. Oh yes, by the by, what were your scores on the State Boards?" As the Scout Craft fella at CSDay Camp, I can't begin to count the number of WB2s that can't tie a square knot( excuse me, Eamon, reef knot) to save their life. Yet, it is a requirement in (if memory serves) two CS ranks. We do alot of 'remedial' knot tying herebouts. I get the impression they have suffered a "social" promotion, from well meaning parents... I would (and have in the past) taken my concerns about "social" promotions back to the party involved. The Camp Director, perhaps, in this case? See also the thread about "Ethics" YiS

And the moral compass that Mother Theresa uses is different from the one used by a car bomber how? They both are self sacreficing... How did they each learn their "ethics" so as to be so different?(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Achhh... always with the militarrry stoof... Ye musn't fergit the culinarrry and the literarrry and the atheletic... Dunna fergit yer Haggis... Sum poor laddie 'll be workin' on his cookin' requirrrrement. And the tossin o' the bonny Caber... Then, too, sum prroper rreciting o' apprrroprriate poetry... summat in prrroper dialect... "Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble ore the wabe... "ah ye canna git mooch betterrrr than that, canye?

Don't leave out "Champ" in Lake Champlain, "Chessie", spoken of respectfully around the Chesapeake Bay, and there is one mentioned in Lake Baikal in Russia... (We won't mention the Pine Barrens Walker in NJ, or Big foot in Washington state) BoogeyBoogeyBoogey... YiS

And the thirteenth point of the Scout Law is "A Scout is Hungry"... *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Montain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS. I offer it here for your enjoyment and inspiration. Note that some of the ingredients are a bit dated. Adjust as necessary. Enjoy!)) "Courageous Cookery" by John Echo* Once the convert backpacker or cycle camper has accepted the subtle gustatory nuances associated with sustained operations beyond the chrome, he should try the advantages of ultra fringe living so that he will realize what he is paying for his nested pots and pretty pans carried so diligently and brought home so dirty after every "wilderness experience". The following system works. It is dependable and functional. It works on the big rock. It even works when the weather has gone to hell, you are wet and cold and the wind is blowing down the back of your hairy neck. It is not for the timid. It consists of a stove, a six inch sauce pan, a plastic cup and a soup spoon. If you insist on a metal cup, you must never fail to mutter "I'm having fun, I'm having fun", every time you spill the soup on your sleeping bag. Breakfast: Instant wheat cereal-- sugar and powdered milk added-- ready two minutes after water boils. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water, boil, and add powdered eggs and ham. You'll never taste the cereal anyway. In three minutes, eat eggs. Do not wash pot. Add water or snow and boil for tea. Do not wash pot. Most of the residue eggs will come off in the tea water. Make it strong and add sugar. Tastes like tea. Do not wash pot. With reasonable technique, it should be clean. Pack pot in rucksack and enjoy last cup of tea while others are dirtying entire series of nested cookware. Lunch: Boil pot of tea. Have snack of rye bread, cheese and dried beef Continue journey in 10 minutes if necessary. Dinner: Boil pot of water, add Wylers dried vegetable soup and beef bar. Eat from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and potatoes from dry potatoe powder. Add gravy mix to taste. Eat potatoes from pot. Do not wash pot. Add water and boil for tea. Fortuitous fish or meat can be cooked easily. You do not need oil or fat. Put half inch of water in pot. Add cleaned and salted fish. Do not let water boil away. Eat from pot when done. Process can be done rapidly. Fish can even be browned somewhat by a masterful hand. Do not change menu. Variation only recedes from the optimum. Beginners may be allowed to wash pot once a day for three consecutive days only. It is obvious that burning or sticking food destroys the beauty of the technique. If you insist on carrying a heavier pack, make up the weight you save with extra food. Stay three days longer. YiS (This message has been edited by SSScout)

My, My , My,... Aside from "male role model issues" (or is defining THAT part and parcel with this discussion?) BP in his original program had 8 or 10 boys bunk together in ONE BIG TENT. Adult leaders tented WAAAY over there... Now, usually, we have TWO boys in ONE tent, many times. Adults are NOT permitted to bunk with the boys, unless they are Dad or...?mom? WHAT BOY IN HIS RIGHT MIND would want to bunk with his mom???(please, mom, no offence intended. But "what would the guys think??") So... The adults bunk in their own tents (?one?two?...) WAAAAY over there. And where is the difficulty? Potty issues are easily dealt with, with shovel, screening and "zoning" declarations. And I know ALL Scouts and their leaders are "Ladies and Gentlemen" in their Language AND their Actions...(...Courteous...) Isn't the umpteenth point of the Scout Law "A Scout is Loving and Respectful of his Mother?" I know MY boy knows that part of the Law, from my example AND direction... ....and not just HIS mother, but anyone elses... So where is the problem, ultimately, if one politely points out the truth of a matter? ScoutScooter, y'all have fun, now, hear? YiS

"Tennyson, anyone?", said the literate lobber. Thank you, OGE. I knew it was one o' them poetical fellas. I'm sorry "The Raven" has nothing to do with horse stuff. I'd add that to the poe-tical feedbag. Did BP mention Kipling anywhere? YiS(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"AYE... Stick to the CODE..." "Waaall, actually, we tink of it more like a set o' 'guidelines'..." YiP

I doubt if our troop could operate as actively as it does if we strictly delineated the SM/ASM group function from the TC group functions. Boy Led? Certainly, as much as possible, but... Our treasurer is a Patrol Dad. The Fund Raiser is an ASM. The CC was a Troop Dad, but his son graduated out some years ago. We are very grateful for his experience and leadership. All are "trained". The Advancement Chair is not anything else, his son is a 2C. Another Cmem is the Pioneer MBC. I could go on. Any parent who wishes to attend a TCom meeting is more than welcome. The adult Troop officers come from the cadre of dads (and moms) who put themselves out for the boys. As an ASM, I attend the TCom and I doubt if anyone would not call me a member of the TCom, certainly not my SM. Any parent (or Gparent!) who wishes to come along on a hike or campout or other activity certainly is welcome. Our boys enjoy the extra recognition(?), and yes, the adult camp serves as a training ground for the less experienced adults AND an example for the Scouts "over there". ("gee mr. J, how'd you do that?") YiS

I think it depends on whether National has your email address. If you like, call them up (if you can find their phone number) and make sure the person who answers the phone connects you with the "Scouting E News" editor ( if any will admit to being same).

Now joust wait a minute... YiS

Yep, me too. Just opened it this morning. I somehow found it significant that the third button in the top row said "donate". But it is nice to be remembered. I don't see the 'Vol" Number thing important, they are just opening up and adding people to their list. If I can recycle newspapers and 'gimmees' that come in the surface mail, I can recycle (?) this too after its consideration. YiS.

This is third hand coming from me, but... I once heard of a Tiger Den that held its meeting at a Starbucks. The adults all ordered a Latte, etc., they pushed the tables together, had an opening, did a craft, some Scout stuff, a closing, pushed the tables back and left in 30 minutes; all to the amusement of the staff and the few customers. They reportedly picked the SLOW part of the afternoon, checked out with the manager before hand. (("just so everybody buys something...")) When my wife and I did Tigers and Wolves, we made it a point to try and go to "exotic " places on occasion, having a meeting at a picnic ground or even at the fire house (with advance planning) rather than just our dining room or porch. (not counting "field trips"). Be open to new possibilities! YiS

So we went from fashion to Longfellow? Not a bad transition. I love to sturrup things every so often. YiS

Perhaps from one of the "private" boy (and girl!) organizations run by churches like the Seventh Day Adventists and others? I think one goes by the name "Pioneers", but they often call themselves 'scouts' (here we go again). I saw a church ( I forget the denomination) marching in the last 4th of July parade that had uniforms with black piping.

1))The Totin' Chip as an earned patch dates AT LEAST to 1960. (Guess how I know that?). Back then, it was white with red border and red lettering and a red axe . I have since seen at least four different designs saying "Totin'Chip": another red on white, and three red on tan. The patch was to be worn on the right pocket flap, until one was OA, when the OA flap would be worn on right pocket flap OVER the T/C. The idea of tearing off a corner of your award card for an unsafe act is a Troop affectation. In our old Troop, if your stupidity warranted attention, your T/C was summarily revoked and one had to re-earn it. Now, how is it that we do Axe Throwing contests at Camporee? 2)) The Firemans Chit is new. Red on Tan, it denotes knowledge and skill in fire building and safety. Same corner cutting idea in some Troops if one "plays with fire". Also worn on the right pocket flap in most Troops, and so one can get a thick right pocket flap. 3)) The Whittlin'chip, for Cubs, is special. It is mentioned, in passing, only once in the Bear book, I believe, and then one has to go hunting to find any guidance about requirements. When I taught it to my Webelos, I used mostly my own knowledge of knives and Safe handling and proper sharpening. We carved soap figures. Messy but clean. As a patch. it is specifically NOT worn on the uniform (don't know why. The book states it so.) Wear it on your award vest. 4)) When I earned more than one tempo patch (from summer camps and Camporees, etc.) I learned to sew them back to back with a ribbon loop, and thus hang two at once that I could flip over if so moved. Same idea with the nifty new plastic hangers one can get. Stuff two appropriately shaped patches in'em and turn 'em over occassionally. Also see "Treasure of the Sierra Madres" with Humphrey Bogart for more guidance on ""Badges"" *wink*wink* YiS