SR540Beaver

As a parent, you have ultimate authority over anything and everything your child does or is exposed to inside and outside of scouting. Kind of like our March campout when it was supposed to be a huge spring snow storm. The troop went ahead with their plans, but some parents thought it wasn't safe and opted to keep their kids home. That being said, I'd make my feelings known very discreetly and in a non-confrontational manner. Just explain to whoever is responsible for vehicle assignments who you do and do not find acceptable for your son to ride with. In our troop, a different adult takes care of the tour permit and riding assignments each month. I find that most planners will accomodate you if they know your feelings. Trust me, there are some boys that an adult doesn't want riding in their vehicle too.

If I recall correctly, CIT's in these parts work for free and only work for two weeks. My son staffs Cub Resident camp and the pay ranges from around $75 to $95 per week depending on the job. Considering that they have a staff day on a Saturday in March, April and May leading up to the opening of camp and the number of hours they put in at camp, they probably end up making about $1 per hour. But they all love it and have a tight bond. Last year my son called me from camp and told me that he couldn't go to Philmont because a number of staffers were leaving and they were going to have some over sold sessions at camp and they needed him. I had to bust his bubble and tell him no dice. The camp and program directors deal with this every year and they will make it work. I appreciated that the staff was a family and a team, but the guys in his crew were depending on him too and we had paid almost $1000 for Philmont. A $85 pay check wouldn't quite offset that. But I digress. Bottom line.....staff does it for the love, not for the money.

I'm glad you approve.

Lisa, I agree that the short sleeves on the new shirt are longer than the old shirt. I have a WB staff tshirt that I can't wear under the old scout shirt due to the sleeve hanging an inch or so below the uniform sleeve. It does not do this with the new uniform shirt.

Should we be discussing this in the protected OA forum? I realize we are not getting all that detailed, but still.....we are discussing elements of Brotherhood that would be more effective if they were still a mystery to the participant. That being said, we do the Brotherhood Enrichment and later the Brotherhood Hike on the way to the Brotherhood Ceremony.

We have women on our campouts. In fact, our adults function as a patrol and the adult PL is a woman. We also occasionally have siblings of both genders along. Since the patrols have their own sites and the adults camp away from them and are trained to not interfere in the boy's program, there is no issue. It is pretty simple.

Eric, Those were hypothetical situations. I could have just as easily said that a Christian is upset that the city council spent tax dollars putting up an Eid display on the city hall lawn. the point is, the city government has no business recognizing one religion over another as it implies support of the religion and is offensive to people of other faiths. Kind of like the BSA, there is nothing wrong with the government realizing or recognizing the value of religion in the life of the citizens, but it is best left to the person and their church to express. As to your comment about the city being open to all religious symbols, I understand the sentiment and agree that it is a tolerant approach. However, as an evangelical Christian, I can tell you that some of my brethern consider the USA as a Christian nation and their faith superior to all other faiths and they would be angry that their tax dollars were spent making Judiasm and Islam appear to be on an equal footing with Christianity. The best approach is for the church to allow the government to govern and for the government to allow the church to express faith freely. Organizations like the ACLU exist to make sure that both are done within the boundaries of the Constitution.

Tell him you are his father and ask if he trusts you? Then you PROMISE him that he has absolutely nothing to fear and will look back and smile at the thought of having been afraid. He is facing an unknown, not a monster and he will find that the unknown is part of the fun. Assure him that you wouldn't let him participate if there was anything bad involved.

vol_scouter: "They are a liberal rights organization not a civil rights organization. They only take the left's side of issues." As a libertarian leaning conservative, I disagree with your statement. For it's time, the concept for our nation and the Constitution and Declaration of Independence our founding fathers created was a radical and "liberal" departure from the government norm. Ever since our founding, there have been those who desire to make society conform to their own personal beliefs or ideology. Organizations like the ACLU provide a patriotic service to US citizens to keep people honest and in compliance with the Constitution. They simply present a legal case in our nation's court systems and they either win or lose based on the merits of their argument. It is the American system of government working as designed. The constitution applies to all citizens regardless of their race, gender, creed, etc. A Christian wants to be free to carry a Bible. A Muslim woman wants to be free to wear a hijab to class. A Native American wants to be able to wear his hair long as an expression of his faith in a place with a dress code. A Jewish person is upset that the city council is spending tax dollars to put a cross up on the city hall lawn for Easter. The ACLU exists to make sure that you have the guaranteed freedom to express your religious faith as you choose and that your government does not endorse one religion over another. Tell me what is wrong with that? (This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Ed, Do a little research instead of just reading those email chain letters or listening to those talk radio guys selling soap and cherry picking red meat for their faithful listeners. http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/16040prs20020417.html In Win for Rev. Falwell (and the ACLU), Judge Rules VA Must Allow Churches to Incorporate (4/17/2002) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE RICHMOND, VA--A federal judge has struck down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating, in a challenge filed by the Rev. Jerry Falwell and joined by the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, the group announced today....... http://www.aclu.org/privacy/medical/14969prs20040112.html ACLU Asks Court to Protect Confidentiality of Rush Limbaugh's Medical Records (1/12/2004) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE PALM BEACH, FL - In a motion filed today, the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida said state law enforcement officers violated Rush Limbaugh's privacy rights by seizing the conservative radio talk show host's medical records as part of a criminal investigation involving alleged ""doctor-shopping."" ""While this case involves the right of Rush Limbaugh to maintain the privacy of his medical records, the precedent set in this case will impact the security of medical records and the privacy of the doctor-patient relationship of every person in Florida,"" said Howard Simon, Executive Director of the ACLU of Florida....... http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/37958prs20081203.html ACLU Files Federal Lawsuit To Protect Religious Liberty Of New Jersey Prisoner (12/3/2008) State Prison Officials Prevent Ordained Pentecostal Minister From Preaching FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: (212) 549-2666; media@aclu.org TRENTON, NJ The American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU of New Jersey today filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of a New Jersey prisoner, an ordained Pentecostal minister, who is asking the state to respect his religious freedom by restoring his right to preach. Howard Thompson, Jr. had preached at weekly worship services at the New Jersey State Prison (NJSP) for more than a decade when prison officials last year issued, without any reason, a blanket ban on all preaching by inmates, even when done under the direct supervision of prison staff...... http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/36544prs20080822.html City of Portland Upholds Freedom of Religion (8/22/2008) Rabbi Allowed to Continue Praying in Home FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: info@mclu.org PORTLAND After more than five hours of testimony from neighbors, clergy, and supporters of religious liberty, the Portland Zoning Board of Appeals unanimously voted to allow a Portland Rabbi to continue prayer in his home. Rabbi Moshe Wilansky had received a cease-and-desist letter from Portland in May, ordering him to stop using his home as a "place of worship". The Zoning Board of Appeals, however, rejected the city's interpretation of the zoning ordinance, finding instead that the Rabbi was using his home in a perfectly acceptable way. "Tonight was a victory for all Mainers who care about religious liberty," said Zachary Heiden, Legal Director for the MCLU, who assisted in Rabbi Wilansky's appeal. "The government is not allowed to tell people where or how to practice religion, and we applaud the Zoning Board for recognizing that truth........" I could go on, but I think you get the picture. If not, there is a whole list at http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/index.html

OGE, I can agree that he was some degree of a terrorist as their motives were political. That being said, the Weathermen were fairly inept in their actions. They bombed or burned symbols of power and fron what I read here, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions) the did not target people. It appears they were doing violent acts to make a statement more than to use fear and terror against people. I'm not trying to make excuses for them and am willing to change my mind based on any credible evidence to the contrary. The late 60's were a very radical period of time in our history and a lot of today's terms don't always fit like a glove. Of course, there is always the mantra that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Our own enemy the Taliban (terrorist) grew from the Mujahideen (freedom fighters) who we supplied and trained to fight a proxy war in Afghanistan.

John, You're preaching to the choir brother.

Yeah Ed, it does. At some point the boys have to step up and be responsible or accept the consequences of their actions. It is a leasson they need to learn now before they get off to college or a real job. You can forgive the SPL skipping a campout because he doesn't like the rain, but his employer isn't going to put up with it. You can accept a shortcut of giving a boy credit for sitting thru a MB class and signing off on it, but his professor won't. You can tell him he is responsible for seeking sign off on his advancement and getting it recorded in his book and then bringing that book to SMC's and BOR's or you can give him a mulligan for forgetting or not doing so. He will accept that as the standard instead of taking responsibility. We are facing an issue now of advancement minded parents wanting their kid's hand held thruout the process. We typically receive 15 to 20 new scouts a year. We have 3 TG's and 3 ASM's that work with this group. We hold their hand in the beginning and pull back little by little over about 9 months before they move to regualr patrols. When the boys do their SMC for Scout, we explain the whole process of SMC's and BOR's and wearing a full uniform and having their book with them. We also explain that while we will walk them thru this process, they will increasingly become responsible for their advancement and it will be hands off by 1st Class. The boys seem to accpt this. The parents on the other hand keep coming to us asking about signing little Timmy off for this and that and concerned that he isn't whipping thru advancement and wanting to know why no adult is sheperding them thru the process like we did last year. Funny thing is, we have all this on paper and pass it out to the new parents each year. We also tell t hem to have their son come see us because he is responsible for his advancement. Now, all that being said.....we do keep a watchful eye out and give a nudge here and there for guys that either seem lost or oblivious to reality. We are preparing boys for life as adults. Letting them breeze thru and giving them a participation award isn't the way to do it. It won't serve them well when they become adults.

That whole guilt by association thing can get to be a real sticky wicket. Sean Hannity hammered the William Ayers and Rev. Wright nail every day for a year leading up to the election. Of course, he associates with the likes of Dick Morris (hookers), Newt Gingrich (adulterer) and Oliver North (criminal acquitted on a technicality) and seeks their counsel and comments constantly. Kind of the pit calling the kettle black. In fact, the moderators will ban you from Sean's website if you criticize any of his friends by speaking the truth about their pasts. Of cousre, he isn't running for national office, so he can relax his standards.

Some of the best campfires we have had has been the few times that the scouts in a patrol actually took the time to create original material.....which is rare. There have been some skits and songs done so many times that the PLC has outlawed them.

OGE, I'm pretty sure BP had crackers and barrels (or biscuits and crates) and therefore, we must now.

skeptic, A gang would fall more in line with the definition of a pirate which uses terror for monetary gain. "Terrorists" use terror for political purposes. Ed, Timothy McVeigh's driving factor was political. He isn't technically a terrorist, he is a full fledged terrorist who like many terrorists, woefully miscalculated the effects of his actions and paid the ultimate price for it. Also, the ACLU serves a worthy purpose as they work to make sure our constitutional rights are guaranteed across the board to all people.

Perhaps I shouldn't admit it, but I don't give to FOS. In addition to being an ASM in a unit, I give an abundance of my personal time to scouting. I serve as a CampMaster and have been asked to chair a particular camp's maintenance committee. I work with our OA chapter. I've served on two WB staffs and will be serving again next year. I served as an ASM for the 2005 Jamboree ($1900 plus 3 full uniforms and spending cash) and will again in 2010 ($3000 plus 3 uniforms and spending cash). My son attended Jambo in 2005 and will again in 2010, so multiply that cost by a factor of 2. Then there is his 2 trips to Philmont, 1 trip to Northern Tier and 1 trip to Pecos Wilderness that were $1000 per pop. Add to that summer camp. By the time my son ages out on just under 2 years, I'll have probably spent about $20,000 on scouting. We got a lot out of it and have given back a lot in service. I didn't say all I did to toot my own horn. I made a personal decision that with all the dollars that scouting has cost me, my donation will have to be my time and service.....and I sleep just fine the night of the FOS presentation where I don't make a donation.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

All roads lead to the handbook. If it isn't signed there, it didn't happen. SM conferences for advancement don't happen unless all requirments have been signed off. BOR's don't happen unless the Scout Spirit and SM conference has been signed off by the SM. When the BOR signs the book, it all gets recorded in TroopMaster and the advancement record is submitted to council. If it does not get recorded in TM or sent to council......the sign off's in the book are the "primary" record that everything else springs from to make it "official". No seed, no tree. I don't believe that expecting the boy to present his record as adding to any requirement. I am currently serving a large troop. The SM does not sign off on all requirements as the multiple ASM's are authorized by the SM to sign off on everything with the exception of Scout Spirit and SM conference. He needs to see the book to know that all requirments have been signed off. The BOR needs to see the book to make sure the SM has finished signing off the requirments before they sign off and take the information to add to TroopMaster. Let's keep in mind that we are trying to work within the frame work of the oath and law here. A scout is friendly, helpful, courteous and kind and we should not make the boy feel like a criminal if he forgets his book. That being said, a scout is trustworthy and obedient and every effort should be made on his part to be responsible and do what he knows is expected. Scouting isn't about participation awards. They are being awarded ranks for meeting requirments just like they will in real life.

Our troop almost always has a campfire unless there is something to prevent it. One instance is when we go to Trappers Rendezvous in Kansas in January. It is often super cold and as there are usually 4,000 people in attendance, we are packed into our campsite kind of like National Jamboree. There simply is no room to do a campfire program. Each year when the boys do their annual planning, boys volunteer to be the planner for one of the campouts. They usually have a buddy sign up to be the assistant planner. An adult volunteers to be the adult mentor for this outing. The boy planner is responsible for checking on camping fees, reservations, itenerary, etc. The adult is there to advise if needed and just to make sure nothing falls thru the cracks. It is also the boy planner's responsibility to make sure the Chaplian's Aide has the Scout's Own covered or has a replacement and to find an emcee to plan the outing's campfire program. Like I said, we almost always have one. One of our biggest challenges is boys falling back on old material and doing the same thing over and over. Occasionally they will complain in the PLC that the last campfire program was lame.....which gives us the opportunity to remind them that they are boy-led and it is only as lame as they allow it to be.

As a life long resident of Oklahoma City who drove past the Murrah Federal Building every day taking my son to his daycare a mile away, I've seen first hand the work of an extremist, right wing, domestic terrorist who happened to be a veteran. There ARE folks in this country on both sides of the aisle who bear watching.....closely. My wife and I both worked within a few blocks of the Murrah Building and if we had any idea that they had a day care facility, we would have put our son there as it was within walking distance of both of our offices. I consider myself conservative and I have a deep respect for our military. That being said, I fully recognize that there are Timothy McVeigh's out there who get a boat load of deadly training in the military and bring it back home to their hate groups and militias. Homeland Security realizes this as well. That isn't a reflection of conservatives as a whole, but it is a realization of a possibility that has raised it's ugly head in our recent past. I can't even begin to describe to you the effect that the OKC bombing had on our community and my family. It pays to be just as vigilant at home as it is outside our country.

The BSA's Young American Award is for college aged youth and would never apply to actual Boy Scouts below 18. In fact, the provided link says it is for college students from 19 to 25.

scouter760, In our troop, we have a PC and printer in the troop room and we print out own ballots for OA elections. If we had to do a second vote, we'd just print new ballots.

Switchbacks are the nylon version. Convertible canvas are a poly/cotton blend like the old uniform pants......just heavier and roomier with real cargo pockets.

Forget chicken soup......pie is good for the soul.