skeptic

You guys sound like the two Eagle Scout jambo leaders I had in 1960 arguing as to who was the better scout(er) based on how many and what merit badges they had. Both had in excess of sixty or seventy. Meanwhile, the other leader, who never went beyond Tenderfoot, was the one we all liked the best and went to for most things. Frankly, most of the discussions (??) lately have become pretty tedious. While I am at it; Kudu, can you please find something else to complain about and quit the incessant 1916 gripe? I do have to give you credit for finding some really novel ways to sort of connect anything and everything to the idea that somehow National is out to destroy BSA and that anything they do is designed to do that. I am on Medicare with VA backup, so I am not worried too much. Also live in California, and our system is working fairly well. Wow; a state run program. Seems to me that as someone pointed out, the issues are partly due to the Fed's being unprepared to have to run more than half the country. They naively thought most states would run their own as was initially intended, with Fed's as backup. Oh, did we mention that most of the states not doing their own also have the highest percentages of people without proper coverage? I woke up grouchy this morning. Having back issues and I am just "old". So I'll go back to worrying about my own unit and council issues for a while.

Sorry, I am very aware of history and some of the nightmares from its past; and frankly, I just do not see anywhere near the parallels that would cause such paranoia in this country. While I would like to throw most of the government rep's out, and recognize occasional issues we should worry about, I just do not understand how some can be so scared of things that really are not scarey. But, I also see the benefits outweighing the negative with traffic cams at some bad intersections, and I would welcome cameras in school classrooms, having been in them for years. Of course I enjoy the program "Person of Interest" too. Not going to look over my should if no real reason to; just worry about my own actions and how they relate to those around me. JMO of course.

Only in the video of the Bozo's at Goblin Rock.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131030-child-memory-testimony-neuroscience/?google_editors_picks=true

The truth about the public complaints and faux anger from most other leaders is simply a fascade to mollify their own populace who, like our own, wears blinders and are naive to the extreme to the realities of how the world works when international governments are involved. As far as spying on your own people, the same old adage applies; "You have nothing to fear, but fear itself", unless of course you are doing things you would prefer others not know about, or that threaten the greater security of the country. For the most part, few of us really have much to be concerned about with the mundane lives we lead, other than some group other than the government getting access to something that allows them to intrude directly on us. Those individuals more likely will get that info from sources other than the government, as there are data miners far more culpable than NSA or such. I will now go back to my boring existence and try to worry about things that really make a difference or I may actually be able to control directly.

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more. So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists. Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

Again, the reality is that there are some rangers that have had some poor or scary contacts with scouts and scouters, so are a bit biased. But, when compared to the general public and the levels of use, I submit that the respect for the outdoors and others is far greater on the Scouting side. Our local rangers are very pro Scouting because they clean up the messes left by others much of the time, and they also do regular trail work that would not get done otherwise. IF we do have a "reported" negative group our local leaders will respond to it and attempt to deal with the group to improve their understanding and future activity. And I would suggest that this response from the local Scouting community is more the norm than non response, and certainly at a higher level of curative action than is seen in the general public. Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.

http://magazine.ucr.edu/85

If they paid for Boys Life, they should have gotten it. That is not something you let slide. Not sure how that could happen if you are auditing the paperwork correctly. Registration and BL are listed separately, which means money for BL should be allocated to it. Most issues suggested can be mitigated by simply paying attention and not paying until the figures work out as they should. Granted, with bigger groups, it is a bit more challenging; but it should not be nearly as hard as we seem to want to make it. Due diligence and simply actually reviewing things will eliminate 90% or more of common errors and complaints. Follow through on noted issues will bring the problems down to probably 1%-2%; but someone needs to actually do it. If we abdicate our responsibilities, then we only have ourselves to blame. Sort of like not voting, then complaining about our leaders.

It can become a real experience for cattle ranching, just like any other program camp. Only difference would be the space used. And, with that much area, there may be some gems for simple camping locations and so on. Have to be a lot cheaper than private programs outside of scouting, especially if linked to the regular program in some way. Maybe a day or two program for some groups, and others that spend the whole time just there doing the day to day things a real ranch would do. Wish I was young again.

jblake: Probably because I do not like dry fried food or boiled to death stuff. Seems all my relatives growing up that were from that area, including Kansas too, either fried it death or boiled it to pablum with lots of grease and sometimes odd spices. Or maybe it is simply because I am a California native, which puts me in a totally different world for them; so KDD would be closer to correct.

Got Oklahoma; have a lot of ancestors from there. Wonder where others would have me living?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/23/5-facts-about-atheists/

Okay, I can see that these guys are fools and adult delinquents, but other than them possibly having a connection with BSA outside of this video, where is the Scout involvement? They are not wearing scouting related clothing, nor are there any boys apparently there. So, it seems to me that we are dealing with pure idiots who may happen to have some connection to the program. As usual, we seem to want to somehow put this on BSA with little valid reason other than general media bias to embarrass the program in the public eye. Yes, prosecute them as the dumbies they are; but leave BSA out of it unless you can verify this was done on a Scouting outing and with boys and other adults present.

As noted, it is simply an extra accomplishment. And every camp awards it to adults should they choose to do it. They are good examples for scouts when they do, and the boys generally are proud of their leaders that do it. For those of us at the higher end of the calendar progression, it is likely also a positive experience simply to still be able to do it. Do not see this being a debate in that regard, but then I never did any of mine as a scout. I was 35 when I did it the first time officially.

Love it. Just another scary indicator about the herd mentality we have in society.

KDD; Maybe we simply need "LEADERS".

Not only is it California law for bikes, it is law for ALL wheeled items such as skates, scooters, and skate boards, though other than bikes, there is an age limit for choice. In regard to helmets though, I am a good example of how important they are. I took a bad spill back in the old days in college; and I was really beat up, including a nasty head gash and ache. But it knocked some sense into me and I got a helmet. Admittedly, then I did not go to the doctor, but would not be surprised if I was a walking concussion for a bit, as I had a lot of problems for a month or so concentrating and such. Course it could also simply have been being 20 and in college; you know how distracting that can be. Years later, when I again began biking, I took another big spill. Landed on my head, but with a helmet. Had a headache, but otherwise was fine. The helmet though was cracked down the center from the impact. Had that helmet around a while to show to kids who had issues with the wearing of them. Still, much of this article and so on is simply nonsense. As others have said; you cannot protect them from everything; and trying makes them less able to deal later.

Think I got it right now JB. Although the pols do try to sell us on a lot of odd stuff.

You mean with the two R reps and Palin joining to complain about "using" veterans by some, even as they are grandstanding? Okay.

Here is the latest from FB regarding our so called leadership in the house. This is simply bizarre .

Brew; I guess I should have added that per my own choice I "do not" push off, only touch and turn. Two reasons I suppose; one is that to me pushing off, as noted, is taking away from the purpose, and for me, I cannot see well enough to do flip turns and I will not grab the side to turn. Just me a suppose. But your point is well taken in regard to floating, though most that do that are really good swimmers and go into stroke almost immediately, at least that I have noted. Of course, the other thing not noted is that many camps simply do not have access to open water anymore, so pools are the option left. Our camp only has a reservoir; and due to its size and ecological issues, it is not used for anything but boating. Even canoe swamping is done in the pool. This last summer the reservoir dried up by July, so we had no boating at all. A good leader might consider discussing the challenge with a boy and encourage them to not take shortcuts or advantage of shallow water or pool edges. Ultimately, if the boy actually does the somewhere around 70 lengths is most pools, he still had accomplished more than most.

While I agree that open water courses are the best for the award, it has been acceptable to do it in a pool for decades. Also agree that the spotter and/or observer should add lengths or disqualify if stops are made with feet down, it is not easier necessarily in a pool. I have done 25 official swims in lakes, the ocean, or pools, and frankly, the constant losing of momentum with the turns is tiring; and often you also have to contend with other swimmers either doing laps or just fooling around, which can cause collisions and unexpected water in your mouth. Most camps at which I have done it require a quarter early in the week, and sometimes a half too, before doing the total distance. It has always been a personal thing with me that I have done a few extra lengths to be sure I made the distance and did not miscount or have my observer miscount; and I have felt annoyed at times when they allow kids to stop and start. Ultimately, you always know if you actually did the real thing; and you live with your self judgments. I do not agree with the occasional camp that has allowed a cumulative swim, giving credit for a quarter one day, then another the next and so on. Had one older scout who only made it to first class due to swimming issues, go with me to count in a pool. He decided he wanted to try it. But the only stroke he did well was the elementary back stroke. So, he did it, on his back almost the entire way. He is now a Lt. Colonel in the army and was a Ranger. He jokes that if the gear in the water test was any longer, he would likely be a grunt forever. His daughter already has had extensive lessons, and he will soon put his son in them as well, and he is only 3 I think.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/a-headstand-without-a-helmet-the-postal-service-halts-just-move-stamps/?_r=1&

These are subjective questions. Be fair, consistent, and use common sense If you look at a particular activity and it is not one that most could do, and it is not planned on the troop or patrol level, then it likely does not meet the requirement. No need in making things harder than they need to be.