skeptic

In many ways, I can see a lot of benefit in the project; but there are also issues of concern in the prep and actual culmination of it. I would definitely like to see the paperwork simplified, ridding the candidate of about 75% of padding that usually serves little or no purpose. One page should easily allow a synopsis of a proposal. The list of materials, funding, and manpower should be as simple as possible also, with an option for clarification on the part of the board if needed. Actual working the project again only needs a very brief description, possibly even as picture captions in some cases. Included would be any notes regarding changes required and why, and possibly unusual leadership challenges. But that too should be as terse as possible. In many troops, the project is the greatest challenge the scout encounters, and how he handles it is very reflective of his character. I too did not have to do a project, and often wonder if I would have finished if I had been required to do so. Most likely I would have, but everything in advancement prior to that was far more challenging than what I see today, especially becoming a First Class, which generally met the title when completed. The higher ranks were mostly leadership and merit badges as they are today, with an emphasis on leadership. The required merit badges in the 50's and early 60's were similar, but the others, due to their categories, gave you a broader experience it seems to me looking back. We also had to have reference letters for advancement to Star and Life, as well as Eagle. And that meant the scout getting them from important individuals in the community and within their circle and family. My board was made up of those same type of individuals with only one actual registered scouter sitting on it. Seems to me there was a sheriff, the superintendent of Joshua Tree NM, a marine colonel, and a couple of others besides the troop or district rep. With that said, I would not get rid of it. But I would find a way to fix the bureaucratic overkill. I also would work to strengthen the lower rank requirements and how they are passed. The lower rank TLC sitting as a board would be reinstated, with just an adult overseer to protect against hazing or unfairness, but with no actual vote. That is one of the least wise decisions National has made in my opinion. Also, while actual complete retesting would not be allowed, some spot checking should be in my opinion. But, I am just one of the old guys living in another world sometimes.

Don't forget that the period of leadership only applies once for each rank, and there can be gaps. A life coming back after inactivity may very well have satisfied that requirement while still more active. If there is a need still, and the older scout is struggling to juggle sports, a job, family issues, school, then often the SM and SPL can come up with something that perhaps can be applied irregularly as the candidate is able and it is needed. Often, instructor is the catch all for such a position because it is pretty ambiguous and allows the SPL or other leadership to draw on them when they can. While it would be great if every older scout stayed committed at 80%+, they all may not be able to do so. If they are making an honest effort to balance it all, then we should be flexible enough to give them the opportunities available. On the other hand, somewhere we may on occasion HAVE to draw a line and counsel them as to where that line is.

If your son is willing to work it out, then you likely should let him. As a SM I have had a few similar instances where I discussed the thoroughness of a "signed" merit badge with a scout because it appeared to me that it was possibly not completely accomplished, even though it was signed. I did leave it to the scout to decide to fix the "questioned" part(s), or to accept the card as it was. It was ultimately "his" decision to make. But, at least he was aware that there was some concern over its level of proficiency. They all chose to review and improve the part(s) in question. Do not know if they were intimidated, though did not seem to be, or simply understood, or already knew, that they had not really "done their best". As I constantly opine; seldom is anything like this completely black and white. But discussing it with a scout is part of our job; and the scout doing the "right" thing is hopefully the result, as it makes him a better person and instills true pride in them for the final outcome.

I have voiced a similar frustration in trying to get them to plan "their" program. What do you want to do? No answer, or hike, camp, but not a word about where they might like to go or special themes. What about program in the troop meetings? Huh? You understand that these are NOT new scouts; so they have done stuff numerous times. As I have said before, it is as if they do not want to try for some reason, but prefer to simply be told. Is it because that is how they are now raised? Is it because not trying means not failing? I too sub, and I can feel for you. One of the reasons I now pretty much stay between 2nd and 5th if possible. They sometimes seem more willing to try; and of course I am still bigger than them. All we can do is keep pulling and pushing; and sometimes we actually see progress. I have an SPL right now that actually is starting to get it; and I am not as stressed at meetings recently. Still lots of room for improvement, but we are going the right direction anyway.

Hear, Hear!!!!

Once more we have those that simply cannot make a decision if there is any amount of gray in the discussion. Very few things in life are completely black or white. In this case, if I read it correctly, this scout was almost new and not from the unit directly affected by the tragedy. He came from the outside because most likely it was suggested he help by someone in his own unit, or a friend in the home unit. I would agree that a simple acknowledgement to the boy's unit is all that would be needed; then that unit can make the decision as they see fit. We should not confuse a good turn and service hours. Generally the definition of a good turn is to do something at the moment it appears to be needed, not a planned and scheduled event. Part of the problem IS that the terms often are mixed or joined, such as the "Good Turn to America", which in reality is not a good turn at all, but scheduled and planned service. Most real good turns take almost no time, and scouts probably do them without even realizing, such as the door opening or the "helping the old lady across the street" joke. Ultimately, it is a decision to be made at the unit level as to how you might address these things. We clean up camp sites when we leave, but that is not service hours, it is what we do in relation to Scouting and Leave No Trace. On the other hand, we have gone out on trail maintenance projects with the Forest Service or Trail Boss led events, and part of that is picking up litter. But, it is service hours as well for most of us. Half or more of the problems, subjects of confusion, and beating of chests pro or con on these forums are about things that simply require a bit of common sense and local, unit level decisions. Why can't we just do our jobs and make rational, and fair determinations? That is what leadership is.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-boy-scouts-judges-20140206,0,4158712.story#axzz2sgdUO049 If there actually was a conflict, why cannot they simply recuse themselves, or be asked to do so by others that see it as a problem? Not likely to be many cases in which this is a issue anyway.

This is the final nail Kudu; they even accommodate vehicles.

Why can't we simply continue with our program as it works and quit "looking" for problems. It unlikely this is really an issue with most units. It gets tiresome to see the continual bantering about what "might" be done wrong, or "might" go wrong, or "what" someone else is doing that someone thinks is wrong. Just run your program honestly and the best you can. If something unusual comes up, worry about it "then"!

Camping "does not" require backpacking, though backpacking counts towards the nights. The requirement is under canvas or the stars and doing the work and so on themselves. So cabins or similar shelters are not allowed, but a campout on the church lawn with tents could. Only one summer camp can be counted in full as long as it is in tents and not cabins. As far as rubbing some the wrong way, that is your opportunity to encourage scout spirit and so on. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and what others do or don't do is not important to their pride in their own accomplishments. It does appear you may have some work to do with the young man though in relation to leadership. Good luck.

The thing about it reverting to the council is crazy too, as most councils have NO use for a troops "stuff" if they fold. It just gets put in an obscure location should they actually have it brought to them (they are not likely to go get it), or they put it in an auction, throw or give it away, depending on what it is. They ARE interested in any money though should it be available.

Yep; I still have days when I simply wonder how or why? But, acknowledging that even the most gifted thinkers and philosophers use a very small percentage of possible brain power, I realize there may be a time I "do" get it; just not in this incarnation or whatever. Still, do consider Christianity as my base; though with my broad acceptance, I often am looked at askance by some and told by others I am not a Christian. Not their decision to make. Reverence is still important. Too many leaders either do not understand their duty to actually counsel kids sometimes, especially in Spirit and such if the need arises. Or, they simply are afraid or lazy. JMPO.

"but author Lew Wallace donated Philmont" Huh????? Gentleman by the name of Waite Phillips I do believe, other than a couple of later smaller pieces.

Yes, you are correct. I liked the Pee Wee from the fifties and sixties better, along with the Tracy cubs (I think). Wish I could find any Roy Powers I could afford. There was a copy of one of the erly newspaper strips on eBay a while back and it was way too pricy for me to even consider. Then there is the hazy Bronc Burnett stories; not too bad actually, but do not think they ever were official, though I still am learning after a few decades. Have accumulated fairly decent group of comics, including all the Little Scouts, a number of Disney ones, and Caspar of course. Still look for them though. That is where the Roy Powers search lies of course. Still only have one of the official Boys Life Comics, as they too get too expensive for me. Would love to have a copy of the Superman cover; but will stay only an image unless I get really lucky. Couple of Archie titles, or related to that series. Also have found a few really odd ball things. Get the Mad version or Playboy version of the handbook. Also an open field of various magazine covers with scouts, mostly from pre 1950, and things like the Farm Journal, and other club type periodicals, though have two Etude covers, and of course the Post. It amazes me how many scout images are out there in advertising too, especially pre 1940. I never run out of things to display at local events. Try to not duplicate too much, other than the very basic items everybody expects to see. Had a boy sit down with his mom and pour over one of the Rockwell books. I will watch for a Ben Hur for you. Never know where they will pop up. Have a few duplicates now, but do not remember any being that one, but will double check. Am up to 107 copies in the various states with about 15 jackets. Thanks for adding to this. Probably should be under another heading, but gets more attention here.

Every Boys Library had 73 titles, mostly fiction, but also BSA Handbook, craft books by Beard. They began in about 1914, though the copyrights are actual book copyrights, and printing dates are not known specifically on most. There are three types, the first having a large frontal scout device on the front only; the second with similar design, but a symbol embossed on the spine; the third with no frontal design and weird colored boards and an embossed symbol on the spine. They came with dustjackets, but are much harder to find with them. Like all such things, there are anomalies in the material. Seton insisted on a different format for Biography of A Grizzly for example. All the books have a 1913 letter by West authorizing the book. Based on that, we can surmise the decision was in 1913 and there may have been a few issued in that year. The best material on the history is by Joe Price who spent most of his adult life collecting and researching scouting things and wrote the Big Kahuna guides on EBL as well as handbooks and merit badges. It took me about 35 years to find all the titles at prices I could afford, never paying more than $35 and usually less than $20. The Scout Handbook was reprinted yearly in the series, but the one everyone tries to get is the 1914 one of course. If you find any in good or better condition under $30 you should consider them; if it has a jacket, even slightly tattered, grab it. Am still replacing poorer copies. The other noted series are interesting, but were never "officially" authorized by BSA. Some of the books of the era with "scout" in the title were trash, and many exceptionally bad writing. But the ones noted here were some of the better ones, especially Tom Slade and Fitzhugh. I gave up any idea of collecting any but the EBL a long time back, as there are far too many for me. I did accumulate the entire 60's era Boys Life series on sports and other subjects of interest to boys, 11 total titles. There are also a lot of anthology type collections, including the official year books or annuals, and Boys Life Treasury books. Keep hoping Doug Bearce will publish his great bibliography again with the updates. Even in its first printing, it is still likely the best overall guide in this area of memorabilia. A lot of the early copyright info is sketchy or confusing, especially in the BSA literature of the time. They finally consistently put a code on the printing page circa 1920 which really the best key when dating things. Many manuals were reprinted a number of times, so that small date code will tell you the real date it came out, not the copyright date.

What 1960's movie with Bob Hope, Elke Summer, and Phylis Dillar featured a patrol of boy scouts in the comedy plot?

This discussion on a worship music blog seemed to me to have connections to Scouting. http://manuelluz.wordpress.com/ Finding that balance between old and new is the challenge. We old guys can too often be a bit set in our ways; but we most of us still have much to offer and pass on. But in a program that is best when it has a viable outdoor program, many of us are no longer able to give the scouts the level of activity they want and need. But part of the problem is also society in general and the breakdown of the extended family unit. It is reflected in the growing public disrespect, often disdain, of the older generation. Likely does not help to have such poor examples in our governmental structures. I know on a personal level that my unit will not survive if I am unsuccessful in reestablishing its outdoor program and bringing in dedicated younger leaders that will appreciate the history and tradition. Am holding my breath that I may have begun that transition.

Location, location, location; Catalina is an anomaly due to this. But anywhere in California you are going to most likely see between $300 and $400 due to state laws related to camp staff pay and other state level rules regarding camps. One of the reasons we have stuck to council the past few years is that any camperships available are only good within council; and few councils offer them to out of council units. For us, our camp is just about the closest too, which is a bigger factor than it was once. Of course, now we have the drought to deal with; last year our reservoir lake dried up before July, so no boating. Still have the pool, but the weather outlook does not bode well for boating. Lots of other good program though. For what you still get at most BSA camps, the price is not that high. But smaller troops often are penalized for leadership costs due to minimum camper counts and two deep. We no longer get any free unless we have at least 10 scout campers; and since that is how many we have in the troop, not likely to happen. Adult price is lower, but I feel it should do no more than cover food costs, which would save about 30-40%. Of course, troops from less financially stable areas also struggle to cover summer camp especially, and even local weekend camping to some extent. There are few free camping areas anymore; and many closer in public areas are not the best place to camp due to lack of control of who is nearby, and their actions. Compare BSA camps to other group camps though, and they generally are a deal, even on Catalina. We just keep working on finding the least expensive spots that meet a minimum level. Packing in helps with this, but right now we struggle due to leadership shortages of adults that can still backpack. Working on that now with some hope of finally getting some help. Just keep working the program, and "do your best".

Probably better off to simply train the dog to return home. They more likely can find the right way than us due to their noses. Of course, they may be drawn off by the scent of pooh along the way.

The new Eagle application is now out. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-728_WB_fillable.pdf

Now how do you know for sure? Perhaps there are others within hearing or sight, but simply not in the picture. And uniforming is a tool, not a requirement. A new recruit would very likely not have a uniform yet anyway. Of course we cannot be certain these are even scouting related subjects; maybe someone posed them to bring ridicule or hint at something not quite right. Thanks for the wishes though.

Schiff; I suspect the "duty to God" element is aimed at strengthening the program against the next political attack after the current one comes to its likely final outcome regarding leaders. Do not see anyone attacking BSA on the duty to country, others, or self elements so no need to strengthen them in comparison. JMHO of course.

From the advance notice on National site; Proposed changes in 2016. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/2015_Program_Change_Overview_Cub_Scouts_Boy_Scouts.pdf Boy Scout Change Summary 15 NOT Changing • Current ranks or approach (T-1 concurrent; S-E sequential) • Use of merit badge program CHANGING • Scout becomes a rank • Additions: – Service @ all ranks (conservation related at Life) – Health eating/habits – Some reordering (T-1) – Physical fitness at each rank – T-1 – Outdoor ethics – LNT & TL – Weather safety, risk assessment & mitigation – Duty to God incorporated in requirement to show Scout Spirit.Boy Scouts - Transition 16 Current Requirements New Requirements Jan. 2016 Current Requirements MUST Be Used Transition Period (See Following Detail) New Requireme

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n401815[/ATTACH] May we follow the Scout Image pointer in the true direction of Scouting and focus on the youth as BP hoped.

Moose; Many, maybe most of these type of situations are pretty much things the unit will need to deal with through their committee and/or sponsor, as they are usually very ambiguous and subjective. Ultimately, it still is the our responsibility as a leader to try to recognize possible problems with interactions and find solutions. Never ignore a boy's complaint; but make sure you do not jump to a conclusion either. Of course, if you have a number of similar concerns from others, it needs to dealt with. And on occasion, that could mean a difficult decision. But we need to make them when needed; otherwise, we are not doing our best.