skeptic

Well, I said I would not say more, but being sure about what I thought I had seen, I found an online copy of the discontinued Tour Permit. Here is what I likely read and to which I referred. Read the last line or two; it specifically says "If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them." "' 1. We will use the Safe Swim Defense in any swimming activity, Safety Afloat in all craft activity on the water, and Climb On Safely for climbing activity. 2. We will use trucks only for transporting equipment—no passengers except in the cab. All passenger cars, station wagons, recreational vehicles, and cabs of trucks will have a seat belt for each passenger. 3. We agree to enforce reasonable travel speed (in accordance with national, state, and local laws) and use only vehicles that are in safe mechanical condition. 4. We will be certain that fires are attended at all times. 5. We will apply for a fire permit from local authorities in all areas where it is required. 6. We will at all times be a credit to the Boy Scouts of America and will not tolerate rowdyism or un-Scoutlike conduct, keeping a constant check on all members of our group. 7. We will maintain high standards of personal cleanliness and orderliness and will operate a clean and sanitary camp, leaving it in a better condition than we found it. 8. We will not litter or bury any trash, garbage, or tin cans. All rubbish that cannot be burned will be placed in a tote-litter bag and taken to the nearest recognized trash disposal or all the way home, if necessary. 9. We will not deface trees, restrooms, or other objects with initials or writing. 10. We will respect the property of others and will not trespass. 11. We will not cut standing trees or shrubs without specific permission from the land owner or manager. 12. We will collect only souvenirs that are gifts to us or that we purchase. 13. We will pay our own way and not expect concessions or entertainment from any individual or group. 14. We will provide every member of our party an opportunity to attend religious services on the Sabbath. 15. We will observe the courtesy to write thank-you notes to persons who assisted us on our trip. 16. We will, in case of backcountry expedition, read and abide by the Wilderness Use Policy of the BSA. 17. We will notify, in case of serious trouble, our local council service center, our parents, or other local contact. 18. If more than one vehicle is used to transport our group, we will establish rendezvous points at the start of each day and not attempt to have drivers closely follow the group vehicle in front of them. So there we have it. Now I can shut up and know I saw and read what I thought I had.

This triggered a long ago memory when I was a new district commissioner and attended a cub recruitment at a local elementary school (when we were still invited). The person in charge got up in front and welcomed them all, then immediately began separating the kids, and their were a number of them then, into age groups. Once that was done, he turned to the parents and adults and asked. Okay, who is going to give their time to make these excited youngsters have their program? A couple hands went up, but that was it. So, since there was far too many for two people to handle, he again turned to the group and said something to the effect of; " So who here will explain to these children why they cannot have their new experience because no adults will step forward". Guilt seemed to work at the time, but that was the seventies. Not sure it will anymore. Just a membory.

Interestingly, I just ran across this, from Mike Rowe. It say much that can relate to this subject. I agree with most of what he suggests, and I even like the song Be Prepared that is linked. https://mikerowe.com/2018/05/otw-death-of-the-boy-scouts/

How about we simply agree that actual convoying is not the best idea, and that defensive driving and obeying the law are paramount. Call it follow the leader, or don't lose the others, or convoying, but it has been discouraged in whatever form for a long time. A policy, maybe not on paper. Common sense is all we need. Why do we need to make it bigger than needed? My last comment, as I have little patience at my seasoned age for nonsense.

On of those "what if" things for me. I was an ASM for a troop at Spangdahlem AB in the sixties, predating I believe the Normandy COR. But it would have been on our radar for sure if was there when it happened. As it turned out, I was moved anyway to a remote sight with no scouting, and only seven of us. Later I took a pass to France, but did not get to Normandy, though wish I had now. I did visit the Luxembourg cemetery, and the one at Cambridge in England. The first one, Luxembourg was a real eye opener for me, as I had yet to see Pearl or Arlington. Cambridge is unique in that it has a huge wall with names engraved on it; all men and a few women that were lost in the Atlantic from sunken ships and downed planes. When I did go to Arlington in 85 with our Jambo troop, I noted a somberness that overcame most of the scouts and leaders, especially those with Veterans as leaders. I watched one Scouter stand just a ways back from the Wall, near the two statue guards and bow his head. His scouts gave him space, and then he walked to the Wall and found a name or maybe more, bowed his head again and finally turned and walked away. The look on the faces of the Scouts was respect and sympathy. I have a photo of myself reflected in the Wall looking at the name of a HS friend, and you can see me with his name in the reflection. A very cool picture. That is why we try to always participate in local Veteran related activities, especially Memorial Day and Veterans' Day.

And the obvious fact our small units NEED the adult help is often why we do not get the cubs to join us. They go where the group is larger and has the adults involved more highly and in larger numbers. You can almost see the parents thinking as the politely thank us for the visits.

I would suggest that it is a good deal of misinformation and a large dose of negativity by the rabid media. Until we find a way to make it clearer how much good the program supports and can do, and get that in front of the people, it will stay hard. Much of that goes right back to the loss of local news and neighborhood exposure. We had our names in the local papers, and even photos. We had little fear of people knowing we were Scouts, as the negative hype was yet to explode. The issues were still there, but the societal responses were far less vituperative and most understood that was NOT the norm. Scouting was simply an accepted part of the community by most, and while still targets for the "sissy" label or "goody-goody", it was not as nasty, and fewer others piled on. Ironically, every time we have our youth out in public doing stuff we get adults and even some youth that thank us. On occasion we have even gotten an interest in joining, though not usually followed up by them. Small things could help, like schools NOT barring the Eagle and Gold Award graduation symbols, or even schools, as many once did, noting Scouting success in the schools. We can do more, but we also have to try harder to overcome much of the hype still. Meanwhile, as one local leader says, "get em out there!"

A great survey, but sadly, not necessarily accurate. Like most such things, the data is skewed to the desired outcome. I agree, as most likely recognize, that I Think Scouting can be America's answer still, but this study does not reflect my own community experiences. While bystanders at service events tend to be positive towards our youth and the group, they are usually not representative of the larger public. The negative image created by the overblown media attacks have done serious damage, and unless we find ways to prove otherwise, and also help people realize that the bad things the media pushed IS NOT the norm, nor ever was. But that damage is done, and so the challenge is greater. The comments here about parents still talking to their kids about right and wrong I fear is far from accurate. Based on both Scouting interactions and years of subbingin schools, I do not see that. And, too often when talking to adults when their scout, or a student was needing "counseling", I have seen the attitude of "not my child. They were not taught to act that way, and other similar words. Still, the study is a small light. Now we need to find a way to spread that beam.

If that crew is a regular thing, it would be a good idea if the unit was prepping regularly, not just when the crew comes along.

Sadly, the time when the Government offered much free, or at cost help, is long gone. One of the reasons for the Summit was the increasing outside pressures from some political individuals against the government allowing BSA on military bases, especially AP Hill. It did not matter to them that while yes, BSA was getting expensive services at cost, or in some cases under, the military was getting major training opportunity in their support at the events. Again, little was completely free the Base personnel or its property, only at "costs". A different perspective and a different world.

Not a huge issue. Someone representing the committee signs, maybe with a notation as to why. DO not hold up the youth.

I am a bit confused that this is even still working. The answer is simply NO. The reasons have been explained in a variety of ways. It can cause dangerous driver actions, and just because it is not an actual convoy, it is still NOT allowed. Plan and if need have meeting spots to regroup. Know where you are going if driving; do not expect to just "follow". How often does it need to be said?

I am curious at the comment of the BSA rate and a comparison. That suggests that BSA or Scouts America has one of the lower stats compared to others in the comparative fields. Is that something that might be important to share more directly? I am asking, as a number of times when I have noted percenage comparisons I have been shouted down and called names. So, a verifiable link or notation would be useful, if nothing else. Thanks.

And there is a place that makes summer camp badges difficult at times. Going through dozens of signed blue cards from camp, how many of us will have a serious talk with each scout about what he learned or did? Hard to selectively judge unless something rings an alarm, like hearing from the counselor that the youth was not going, or not participating. Of course then, the card also should never be signed as completed if that were the case. We want to trust the youth, and hopefully will find few times to seriously challenge some things. Fine lines and balance much of the time. I am reminded of the great book by Cochraan, Be Prepared. The SM in the story has taken over a troubled troop where much has been let slide. He has two youth that are Eagles, and he has concerns about them based on observations of their skills and so on. So, when he suspects they may not really be swimmers due to indictions they avoid the water and make excuses, he takes them in a row boat to the middle of the lake. It is only a few hundred yards from shore which for someone with the swimming and life saving badges should not be an issue to swim back. So, he tells them he wants them to swim back to shore and they refuse and admit they are pretty much unable to swim. He challenges them as to how then they could be Eagles. More discussion and he finally rows them all back. He informs them that he is distressed by their obvious issues, especially as he needs them as leaders. So, he suggests that they give him back their Eagles untilcan validate they deserve them. I know, not allowed or realistic, but it is a story. The book is really fun and also encouraging. Ultimately, one boy's father challenges the issue and threatens the SM, while the other youth's parent acknowledges an issue. And one boy does prove himself and is again given his Eagle. The other drops out and has other issues as well. Idealistic, but also makes us think.

And, while most such weak or fudged things are not dangerous, in the case of swimming it can be. I had a real wake up on that. I had a boy do swimming for a week at camp and he received his approval and card. A month later, we went to the local Naval Base and used their pool. The Navy guy running the pool told them all to swim the length of the pool,thenfloat, so he could judge their skill levels. The boy I noted could not do it. Now if you completed the badge just a month prior you should have verified minimal skill in four strokes at least, plus float. When I confronted the boy he admitted he somehow managed to fool the staff. Needless to say, I was not happy. I reported it to the council and they did not hire that swimming counselor or her staff for the next year. I am just glad the Navy guy was on top of it.

You make a number of valid, or at least seemingly valid, points. But, I have heard indirectly of many issues with poorly disciplined or overbearing kids on teams, and if a child is NOT good enough, they will be gone by middle school age for the most part. More importantly, IF you feel youth sports have few YP issues, you are not paying attention. Only recently have many states stepped in to begin a better oversight of these teams. In California, and I believe many other states now, there are state madated certifications for adults involved in these teams. It remains to be seen if those mandates will be properl policed, just as BSA YP continues to have that challenge. But, BSA is mostly working to assure these State mandates are met. Sadly, just as in BSA, some groups are more attentive than others I suspect. And for me, the mention of travel teams can pack their coolers is a bit scary, as that suggests that they may turn a blind eye to alcholol issues in some cases. The two types of youth offerings are not the same, and both have their own unique challenges. IF sportsmanship, as I learned it anyway, was assured in these leagues I would be more inclined to understand; but we all have read or seen the lack of sportsmanship in youth situations, both little league types, high school programs, and travel. And Professional sports also too often set a very poor example, both in regard to respect of other players, but also looking the other way in regard to the actual rules. None of it is easy, nor are they free of serious concerns. But the basic tenets of Scouting still stand up to one of the best guides for real citizenship and a character filled life.

Silicon Valley Monterey Bay Council,Boy Scouts of America > News > Top News > California Assembly Bill 506 and Youth Protection Training California Assembly Bill 506 and Youth Protection Training Online training and Live Scan background checks required by law for all volunteers. A new law has taken effect in California, effective January 1, 2022 and will further support our mission to protect youth in our program from neglect and abuse. Pursuant to California Business and Professions Code Section 18975 (formally referred to as AB 506 of 2021), volunteers, employees, and administrators are now required to take an additional training and complete a Live Scan background check. INSTRUCTIONS: Complete Mandated Reporter Training from the state of California Upload certificate of completion for training to SVMBC council portal on www.californiascouting.org Get a Live Scan Fingerprint & Background check Download and print the Request for Live Scan Form (unique to our council) Find the Live Scan site near you, bring the completed form to the service provider. Each individual must pay a fingerprint rolling fee ($20-$40) and FBI background check fee ($15) to the Live Scan provider. Live Scan Location: Verify Group Inc. located at 262 E Hamilton Ave Suite A, Campbell, CA 95008. Click on https://verifygroup.youcanbook.me/ and select “Live Scan Fingerprinting” to schedule. Any Live Scan Location is allowed. We are offering Live Scan Background checks at many upcoming council events. Visit www.californiascouting.org for full details and resources.

No longer the case in California, and I believe a few other states. Coaches fall under the updated State requirement to be accredited by the State in YP and reporting. That includes fingerprinting. Now whether anyone is policing that, I have no idea. But it is a part of our council level requirements.

It took a while, but I stopped letting overly demanding sports programs, and over the top coaches, get to me. I tried to make the youth understand that there are myriad choices in life, and making them is part of the "growing up" process. Ultimately, they need to choose, hopefully with focus and balance. Too many chose the overly demanding sports road, but with luck may have carried a small piece of the tenets of Scouting with them. A few, returned and refocused on Scouting. We never know. One of the good things about contact with the troop family over decades is that on occasion I see the result in the now adult.

There are a lot of possible "shooting" sports, some not so sporty, some just humor. Shooting marbles, shooting pool, shooting baskets, and maybe even shooting mouths. They all still have rules of sorts, though too often ignored in the broader world. I suppose I just shot myself in the foot, as I am going too far afield. 😇

What am I missing with the "travel sports" thing? It seems far more time stealing and financially draining to me. And few of the kids ever will go beyond to make a living, though perhaps it will help some gets scholarships. Again though, I missed most of those options as a youth due to the time period of the late fifties. Local sports groups often were very selective, or developed on civic lines. In my case, while I wanted to do Little League, I could not, as we lived in an L.A. County area surrounded by the city of Azusa, and my address did not allow me to join. Of course, that was before the onset of so many other sports and parental fanaticism.

" Folks spend way more time figuring our how to game the system than, well, I don't know, going camping." Triple plus star for this. And that applies to most of the more popular and consistent parts of the program.

I had to go looking to make sure I understood the terminology used. Admittedly, I was not cognizant of the definintion of cisnet and its related terms. Perhaps they are more precise in the current atmosphere, but I am not sure that they may also play into the greater confusion so many seem to have. Most of the confusions and conflict appears, to me anyway, to simply be that emotions that once were sublimated are now often expected to be shared, even when the person with them is still confused and not sure about it. Are we as a society, here in the U.S. at least, too conflicted within to allow others to deal on their own terms? Are we threatened somehow? E.G.; I have never understood why some push the issue in religion versus atheism. It is a play on words to me, as the definition of atheism contradicts itself in my view. Still, much of the legal wrangling on that front relates to someone "feeling oppressed" by simply having to on occasion see a cross or other religious symbol, and so insists that their right to not be conflicted by a symbol overrides that of those who use or represent that symbol. I always wonder why they are threatened, as they simply can not look, or ignore it. Again though, what we once called "common sense" is a vague, almost non existent thing now. Even more sadly, we seem to add to the confusion with too many young people just because we are roiled ourselves emotionally.

Bruce Russell; a prize winning political cartoonist of the WWII era. So, likely copied from a newspaper of the time.