Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by skeptic

  1. This one continues to be a serious point of confusion for many of us I fear. Our leaders have touched on it once or twice, but nobody feels confident in how to approach it. The general consensus verges on making it a general group discussion for all the youth, or perhaps more than one, focused on THEIR perspectives and input. The vagueness and simply point that the subjects are controversial and bound to be viewed in widely distanced ways does not help. The one thing though, upon what most adults and even more senior scouts is that the intent has always already been part of the basic tenet
  2. If the council is threatened by the cooperative efforts of the individual units, then they do not understand the program. For the first fity to sixty years, at least, that was what made the program. And, if we refacilitate that type of thing, it again will likely take off to some extent. But, the dedidcated Commissioners that were key back then no longer exist to any extent.
  3. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2022/03/11/lets-get-some-bsa-representation-ages-15-29-on-the-uns-young-leaders-initiative/ This is a long shot, but there are some of our youth, especially those just recently moved to the first decade after high school, who might find this of great interest. But, as Bryan notes, this is very much up the alley of the best of Scouting.
  4. Well, "spot on" may be a stretch. But it does show the realities of this and how it became the mess it is. Most of the problem, in my view, can be laid in the laps of the messed up legal system that has little rhyme or reason much of the times, and is too often the "the land of predator grifters" with often thin credentials. JMHO of course.
  5. Not sure if this post suggests this article, which is spot on by the way from my perspective, is reason for censue. If so, I too would say not right, but in stronger verbiage. Almost from the beginning some, shall we say questionable legal persons, those for whom I was smacked for my descriptions, have played fast and loose with this. The real victims, or now survivors, have been summarily used as pawns to instigate a "big payday" for grifters and those certain oily legal gurus, while the real victims/survivors have been left in the mud. Again, just my view.
  6. It just may be the curmudgeon in me, but at times I feel as if certain people in some of the National level decision groups think that the leaders in the trenches are all idiots or will be lemmings. They seem to not give us credit for being able to actually be "leaders" in that we actually can be aware and respond accordingly. But that may come from the fact that on occasion that has been exactily what transpired to cause an issue. But we all need to not forget we are all prone to human error. As long as we can accept our failings and work to avoid repetition and also "do our best" we shou
  7. This was in 1955 when I was 11 and brand new. Just for clarification. We are not a Lutheran sponsored unit, but another larger denomination. It is interesting that every year or so, there are training couses at PTC that relate to the coopertive nature of sponsors, especially the major churches. In those, they discuss how to integrate the program within the larger council and even area in relation to that specific sponsor. So, it is actually contradictory to meet at PTC in such discussions, then say we should not do it.
  8. We simply need to do what works best for the individual units and their youth. The idea that two units working together is not allowed without permission is ludicrous. It flys in the face of the whole program, most importantly the brother/sister hood of the program. Efficiency, sharing resources, and so on. As noted here already, it allows smaller units to do things they might not do otherwise. As far as YP is concerned and liability, it should not be an issue. If all adults are following the rules, then if anything, it should make it easier to keep aware. Most of our issues with the la
  9. Any others joining me in watching the flock of hooked beaked circlers?
  10. Remember, the uniform is not required, only a tool. NEVER should lack of a uniform be a reason for a youth to not have the program should they want it. B.P. must have polished his bones well by now with all the foolishness that has gone on that does not help the youth, but is rather just a parady of the actual reason and direction of Scouting.
  11. Sadly, the reputation of the main "experts" in this report and organization does not appear to be stellar. If you review the main author, there are numerous concerns about her methods and obvious bias, in her case towards the Catholic Church first, and now the BSA. Look it up and make your own decision.
  12. When I sign on now, I cannot click the unread link, nor am I getting my personal link at the top?
  13. No matter my different interpretations of some of this, I too find this letter well done and worth every word. As, no matter where you may be in the larger mess, I have to think we are all simply disgusted with ALL the lawyers, or most anyway. Thanks.
  14. It occurred to me this morning that the problem I, and others, may be having is equating the BSA, the organization with the people behind it. It is the people that have made the poor choices and not responded as we may think, or even know, today, they likely should. (We are likely not seeing the total pictures due to time and lack of actual information). The organization is made up of people, and often those people let it down for whatever reasons. Having the skill and actually even bravery to stand against wrong actions and especially evil is hard, and far too many of us fail. It then s
  15. At least some of it likely fits your assertions. And again, that was wrong, but pretty much the norm. Just like the sheriif, or the D.A. did cya for things, or the schools and their boards, and the orphanages, and the psychiatric hospitals and so on. I do not perceive of it being as rife throughout though as some would have us believe. It still happened, and the goal of Scouting should have been to NOT go along with the societal "look the other way" attitudes, or other similar common CYA things. Again, I believe that was why Mr. West conceived of the IV files, seeing them as a way to stop
  16. Not a really balanced or maybe even unbiased set of comments. There is no recognition of the efforts of YP that were began earlier than most and often held up as good examples for others. Most damning might be that he a terminated employee and not a happy camper. Of course, you might also ask why all this only comes up after he is out of a job? No one is without fault, and too many chose the easier way out by simply ignoring or bailing with prejucice.
  17. Not sure it was unique, only unique in that they actually recognized a reason for awareness when few others were.
  18. The big question is would you make that effort if you were seldom able to verify much things, or others, including family members chose to not pursue it? Add the just posted difference in liable law back then, what might be the best option. Today, we see that to be bring it out and nail them. But, we all know that even today, many cases never are prosectuted due to refusal of someone, either the victim, their families, the strength of the case, and so on. We cannot know, only recognize we need to do better and alway alert. We will not change the basic perversions of the human animal, male
  19. Little of what you suggest has any verifiable validity. Not sure where you get the ideal of the high level of abuse, other than projections based on little or no factual information. Also, as has been noted a number of times, the BSA levels were far lower, percentage wise than the larger society, based on what is actually known. Could it have been much higher; possibly. But, the whole thing today is all conjecture if you go back prior to 1960 or so, as records were not kept, and other factors are lost or were never recorded. As far as the IV files; again, no one else did even that. The s
  20. Well, it does not appear that some of your fellow survivors found the Peanuts post amusing. But, if you are offended, I apologize. It seems so fitting for this whole mess, at least to me. As for "as they are known today"; that is simply not true. Just as the ACA is still the Affordable Care Act and not Obama Care, the IV files are still the IV files and not the Perversion Files just because some choose to "pervert" it. I suspect you actually completely understand all of this.
  21. Stop trying to evaluate things out of context. The entire perception of these things was different back then. Yes, he actually was instrumental in the IV files, which was a step in the right direction based on the era. I suspect that given today's systems and information, Mr. West might well have been pushing for major changes and protections now recognized. Secondly, stop calling them the perversion files please. That is not what they are called, nor are many of them remotely related to "perversion". It is like the corruption of the ACA to the Obama Act. It is misleading and disto
  22. Too often the case, but definitely not a universal issue. We have had numerous closely aligned board members, and in the over forty years I have been here, a great many of them were active in the real trenches. BUT, still, we have also had our share of disnconnected and, shall we suggest, puppets.
  23. Related, but peripheral to the topic. I found myself wondering how James E. West might have reacted to this whole mess today. If some may not know, West came from an orphanage and had physical issues. But he baecame a lawyer and was an early player in the legal protection efforts of children. Much of his work was based on his own childhood and experiences in the "system". And, while in many ways, West was difficult and dogmatic, I have to think he would have been on the right side of this mess given the changes in society since his death. Just a thought.
  24. Now, this is surely interesting, and perhaps something of what the public today might wish to note. " Chief Scout Executive James E. West visited Houston in late January 1923. The following quotes are from Jan 23-24, 1923 Houston Chronicle articles. The Ku Klux Klan was very much in the national headlines. While he does not explicitly mention the Klan, I believe Mr. West's remarks which follow are directly aimed at the Klan. "At this time when the spirit of intolerance apparently is gaining such headway in the social life of this great American government I think it would be
  • Create New...