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Everything posted by skeptic

  1. I am putting this here, as I am unsure where it might be a point of discussion. This quote is from an opinion piece related to the current SCOTUS issue. But it seems to me that with a tweak or two, it might well reflect on the problems in BSA and really society in general. BSA or Scouting began as an effort to create better citizens at a time of great turmoil and change. It became very idealistic, even as it struggled to fit into the changing society. The repetitive use of its "goody-goody" image as out of sync grew, even possibly making some refuse to recognize that it still had elements
  2. You see the error in your statement. Lives were ruined by the perpetrator. Others that chose to cover up, or keep private, or simply ignore for whatever reasons are not the ones that did the damage, they are secondary. The focus should not be first on BSA, or local authorities that chose to say they had no proof, or not enough, or on famillies that felt the need to keep it quiet for some reason. IF the actual abuser had not done it, the others would not even be in the picture.
  3. It seems apparent to me from the recent series of post on Bryan On Scouting that there is awareness of the ongoing concerns and need to keep the issue openly visible. Today's link is a great reminder and offers tools, again. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2022/04/29/five-takeaways-from-child-abuse-prevention-month/
  4. Oh please, don not bring up actualities and what actually happens.
  5. The idea that there is an "absolute" to keeping abuse out of the program is simply not real. That, to me, is where the train derails, as it simply not possible in the human environment. I take pause at the statements that suggest that those making bad decisions could have stopped ALL the abuse, especially in the time contnuem about which we are speaking. It still comes down to two things. NO ABUSE is acceptible, and it is impossible to take abuse out of the world unless you find a way to keep all human in separate, non interacting environments. And then we have nothing, as it is simply a
  6. While there are a number of caveats in the Warren Report as to the applications and interpretations, it is fairly clear that the magnitude of things is hard to judge, as there are too many missing pieces. On the other hand, there is little other currently that delves into the subject at the level needed, and the few other bits and pieces are vague and prone to serious bias. On the other hand, the report goes into a l great deal of detail and suggests other areas of study beyond it. It is likely that any study of this difficult problem, in Scouting or outside, will encounter many incon
  7. Here is the link to the Warren Report: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/youthprotection/pdf/WarrenReportSummary.pdf IF you have read it, it is not a smoking gun destroying the BSA, and it was reported to the federal government. The summary states " Taken as a whole, these data underscore the threat posed to youth by individuals who have or develop a sexual interest in children or adolescents. This is a problem that has been present throughout history yet one that has been addressed more consistently and thoughtfully throughout society over the past twenty-five ye
  8. Once again you ignore the details. The IV files were not normal for the time, and they did take notice and began the YP efforts that were used as a model by others. But, this is a useless effort, as you know perfectly well that their less than wonderful efforts were more than was common at the time. And more recently, we have seen the stats that indicate they were not the only ones not doing their best, shown by other studies of camps ans such. Believe and say whatever makes you feel better. 🤫
  9. Or, because they made more effort than the broader community, there were fewer fires, especially in comparison to the community overall.
  10. Not an accurate comparison. BSA actually did more than many, though they failed in too many cases, for whatever reasons. The proverbial fire was not simply ignored, though in too many instances the efforts to not only combat, but make it less likely for another fire, were not made as they might have been, and surely still should be. That does not take away the fact they often did do the right thing and went beyond the community standards of the time in many cases.
  11. Your pain and struggle can never be erased, even you have noted that. But, that does not remove the reality that the instigator of that pain wa one person, a predator that preyed on you, and he was part of the larger community and others, besides the BSA failed you. That is my point. That cannot be changed; but it should be part of the picture presented, to be accurate. I suspect you, and others actually understand that. This is a time when that broader brush likely should be used.
  12. Balance and perspective, along with somehow also seeing beyond the outline to other lines of intersection. You cannot have that if somehow the subject is removed from its outliers, which in this case is society at the times these things occurred. As far as the video is concerned, I have yet to see it in its entirety, so perhaps that will alter my view. As far as you comment about my view being repugnant; it is not me that is using survivors.
  13. It is simply sad that there is so much hate being displayed by a few on here. I have not ever suggested even that the abuse that happened was okay or should not be addressed. But I have said, and still point out that the level of sensationalism and exaggeration is beyond logic. That is especially in regard to the continued claims that BSA never did anything about it, when as has been noted enough times, they did more than was usual in those earlier years. They made huge errors, and they should be held accountable. But it was not the doing of the larger organization nor a larger percentage
  14. Until I find the real video and see it I cannot make judgment beyond the blatantly sensationalized trailer. But, the only thing I see is another case of using the survivors to make money, by prolonging their already overtaxed. As far as your number goes, we all should by now understand that a large number of those are very possibly not accurate, or simply not real. Until they actually vet them, we will not know. And for some reason, there appears to be a great many of the lawyers that would prefer that did not happen. Just my observation of course. And it appears that Netflix is also goi
  15. If the trailer is any indication of the entire video, the "producers" have gone out of their way to focus on the worst, and ignore anything else from over a century of Scouting. And, the people in the trailer are seemingly chosen to look sleazy as adults, and helpless as children. Anyone that rad the book by the same name, should see similarities. This too is a dark reflection on our society, well beyond Scouting. We see little of the positive in the media, obviously simply preying on the worst and seldom if ever putting positive things in the forefront. Meanwhile, so called Reality TV an
  16. To me, fortunate to NOT be a survivor, but understanding (as best as one can from outside) there are ambiguous feelings and views with this larger morass, I still feel Scouting is better than this and has a place in society and our country. Our duty and goals should be to correct the compass point and to NOT abandon the mostly positive place Scouting can play in our communities. While doing that though, we need to not wear blinders in relation to past mistakes and poor judgment, and to do all we can to keep the safeguards working and continually strengthen them as we are able. I found
  17. Please try to be factual. The records, known as IV files, were not sealed, simply not open to public scrutiny. They were and are kept as one barrier to those that would try to prey on the members. Before computers, it was difficult to check unless a council had suspicions for some reason, as it was done by phone or mail. The easier access for that check grew with the advent of dependible computer files. During much of the mid twentieth century, there was a fefinite concern about legal issues related defamation, and if an entry was not well verified, it would not be something to make publi
  18. So, I short search turned up this particular broad list of "camp" abuse cases. Note that there are BSA camps, but they are not the majority. And there is one 4H camp with multiple victims it appears. Also a number of Y camps, but most seem to be church related or community groups of some type. https://crime-stoppers.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Spreadsheet-of-Camp-Molestations-8-5-2019.pdf And, while I could not get to see the article, as the Glade has a reader wall, there is a search record specific to 4H in at least one instance, plus the one on the list in the shared link.
  19. Ignoring the facts that the abuse is rampant in many areas of youth programs and especially in the very groups that are supposed to protect them does not serve anyone well. I have never said that some abuse did not occur, and that some was truly bad and should have been dealt with properly. But, putting the onus on BSA and the Catholic Church, while simply ignoring all the rest of the issues thoughout society related to youth does not serve children either. What I have said is that the actual percentages of abuse in BSA, based on proven data, is lower than in most other youth serving groups
  20. The potentiaol is always there, but that is reality for any group involved with youth, and is less likely in Scouting in reality,l as has been discussed numerous times. The real issue is the media putting the spotlight on certain grouops, even when statistically they are safer than others. It is a refelction of our societal fascination with sensationalism of negative images of negative things in normally postively positioned groups and people. And it also is relective our our broken legal system. With that in mind of course, BSA needs to do everything possible to adhere to its safeguards,
  21. I would think that this particular report would be a major point of discussion and concern. Some things immediately stand out as already know, specifically that the largest percentage are family members, by far. Interesting to me, and a surprise, is that apparently this study anyway indicates that females are slightly more responsible for abuse. Age groups are not a huge surprise. I would think the takeaway from this particular study and report would be that more focus needs to be where the most perpetrators are; the family. We continue to demonize a small percentage of people at higher l
  22. Add this that attempts to explain points of Law; " A Scout is Friendly. A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own. A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along. A Scout is Kind. A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, h
  23. Today especially I believe that not allowing professed atheists to join would be problematic in some cases. Part of the issue for youth, those that are still in the younger ages especially, really are too young to have established that belief themselves. Their parent(s) may make that claim, but they really are at best searching agnostics. I have seen a couple of youth that were struggling with the Spiritual issue due to their maturing and wider exposure to other religious beliefs. But, as they experienced a deeper immersion with the realities of nature, especially dark skies and infinite s
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