SeattlePioneer

The Boy Scouts stress age appropriate outdoor experiences, and placing an eight year old in activities for 11-15 year olds is very likely to cause problems and compromises, in my experience. Having an annual family camp is good, but having the troop porous and open to non Scouters with no understanding of the program and uncertain physical and camping skills is not good. But the real answer is to talk to the Scoutmaster about your son's anxiety. He might ask an older Scout to be a buddy for your son, or he may have no problem with you and your younger son camping. And since your aim is to merely be a presence, you and your younger son might plan your own activities and camp with the adult leaders, reducing the impact on the boy led program. Seattle Pioneer

The entrance is off Dash Point Road at 48 AV SW if my memory is correct. Seattle Pioneer

As others have noted, it's all about how you present it. Go outdoors and set up a baseball diamond. Play "Citizenship baseball," with Cub Scouts getting hits, balls or strikes in coming up with answers to questions such as naming ways to be a good citizen. Seattle Pioneer

Queen's English, American Standard English, Ebonics, Tex-Mex? I'm sure there are others. This is a funny thread. I'd consider putting "English" on my uniform, although I also like the idea of using velcro and being able to switch in Klingon, Computerese and others for the sake of variety. Seattle Pioneer

One of the more succesful troop meetings I've set up involved practice solving map and compass problems indoors. A designated spot for each problem was marked on the floor, and landmarks from a map were marked with pieces of paper on the wall. Scouts were then given a map and asked to identify which island on the map corresponded to the "island" marked on the wall. They were asked to give the compass bearing they would follow to the island and the time it would take to get to the island in traveling in a canor at 3 MPH. Another exercise involved a map of Mt. Rainier National Park, which has the Wonderland trail that goes entiely around the mountain. A location for the summit of Mt Rainier was marked on the wall in two or three locations and the Scouts had to determine where they would be on the trail if the mountain were in that direction. Seattle Pioneer

I work with a small Troop of 8-10 boys. This troop desperately needs some new Scouts if it is to survive. Beginning this spring I began focussing on how to attract some new Scouts. The Troop and I in particular had worked with a Cub Pack with five 2nd year Webelos Scouts. We also camped out with the Cub Pack and invited the Webelos boys to camp wwith the Troop rather than the Cub Scouts. We also put on a stationery bicycle race at carnival run by the nearby elementary school at the end of the school year. We collected names and addresses of boys who participated who were of Scouting age. I went out to the homes of these boys in June and invited them to a troop meeting and a troop bicycle camping trip. Zero response. I was told by out DE that I should aim more at inviting the parents than the boys, since the parents were the decisionmakers and might also be reluctent to have their boys participate if they weren't acquainted with the adults involved. Well, that was fine. So I organized a traditional fall troop open house. I visited the homes of the boys and invited the parents and boys to a desert and apple cider squeeeze. The parents and adult leaders of the troop would have a chance to talk, while the boys would have a chance to press fresh apple cider to be served at the desert. That sounded like fun to me ---for everyone. I had accumulated 15 names, five boys who had aged out of Weebelos, and ten names of boys from the carnival/bicycle race. The turnout at the open house: zero. It's discouraging. Seattle Pioneer

I've never attended a National Jamboree or Philmont. Doing council events like Woodbadge and Scout Camp and district events like camporees and Roundtables sums up my Scouting program experience outside of the unit. My theory is I haven't missed that much. I value council and district events as examples of what the unit level Scouting experience ought to be --- well planned, brimming with experiences that teach participants Scouting skills and values. My theory is that boys ought to be able to learn most of what is valuable about Scouting from a good troop experince. That said, district and council experiences add a good deal to the program any troop I've worked with could do by themselves. That suggests that Philmont and Jambo ought to be able to contribute to a good Scouting experience as well. So I invite comments: just what do Scouts and Scouters gain from paticipation in events such as Jamboree or Philmont? How important are the experiences there compared with those that can be obtained from a good program at the local unit, district and council levels? Seattle Pioneer

I'm going to be doing recruiting for our cub pack at a Catholic K-8th grade school this fall. Any pointers and techniques people might suggest for this would be welcome. In the past, a pack at a neighboring public elementary school recruited from this school, but it collapsed a year ago. I couple of years ago, some parents at this Catholic School made an effort to start their own Cub Pack, but it failed. I'm expecting that we will be sending recruiting leaflets home twice with children before holding a Scout Night at this school. I'm also expecting to "sticker" interested students at lunch the day of the Scout Night with stickers that invite boys and parents (with the idea that they will survive until students get home). We will probably also be making up some yard signs to post at the school a couple of days before the Scout Night. All pretty standard recruiting stuff. But what could we do that might appeal to the special character of a Catholic school? Also, what approaches ought I to make to the Catholic church in support of this Scout Night ---- perhaps asking to talk to Sunday School students and include leaflets in the Church program and perhaps ask for a plug during the Sunday service? Perhaps there is a men's organization that might be interested in promoting Scouting. What are reasonable things to ask for to support this recruiting effort? Seattle Pioneer

As I understand it (and I'm no lawyer), the Supreme Court decided that government could not use anti discrimination laws to punish the Boy Scouts for their membership policies. I would presume that the same thing applies to school districts. My supposition is that school boards, parks and other government units aren't permitted to discriminate against the Scouts because of our membership policies. So the "if we let one in we have to let them all in" argument should work in favor of the Scouts, not be permitted to work against us. That's the theory I operate on, anyway. Around here, pricipals are free to decide their own policies. The public elementary school I work with has a very supportive princiapal, and the PTA charters the Cub Pack. I make a point of attending PTA meetings in uniform, and the Cub Pack will be sponsoring the school spaghetti dinner that takes place the evening of the school open house in October. I recently asked the principal what the Cub Pack could do for the school, and as a result the pack will be doing a flag ceremony for the Veterans's Day Assembly and attending a service project on ML King's birthday at the school. Seattle Pioneer

I recently spent 8-10 hours putting together an excellent (if I do say so myself) orienteering course to meet one of the first class requirements. The requirement specifies that it be at least a mile long and involve uses of indirect measurement skills. That's a lot of work. How do other Troops handle that requirement? I'm thinking about taking copies of the map and clues and leaving them at the next Roundtable. Seattle Pioneer

So --- What do you think are the jobs that are the least appreciated in Scouting? Seattle Pioneer

My guess is that all the Boy Scouts were obedient and left for safety when the mandatory evacuation order was issued...... Seattle Pioneer

I took Woodbadge in 1985, and reported to the Woodbadge counselor that I had completed all the ticket requirements when he called me in 1987. However, I'm still awaiting the awards ceremony. Seattle Pioneer

Hourman, Thanks for sharing your own reservations about joining Scouting with your son. I expect my sister in law in particular had similar reservations about Scouting for my two nephews. This issue gets back to one of the divides in values in this society --- whether one tends to follow the latest fashions or prefers the tried and true "eternal values" by which to live their life. Societies where religion plays a vital role tend to change relatively slowly. Religion changes, but tends to be conservative, questioning changes, examining them closely and then changing slowly over time. By contrast, a society cut free of religion tends to be free to change rapidly, and may wind up making poor choices about how to change, causing a lot of difficulties. This society in recent decades has seen the mass media and it's intelectual establishment increasingly oriented towards fads and fashions as a source of social leadership, direction and authority. This gives the news media a great deal of social power, and gives the social science types power since they are one source of "expert" authority quoted by the news media. And then you have the entertainment media who promote the social theories of experts such as rap music artists as sources of political and social authority. MUST we as Americans live our lives according to the fashions promoted by the news media and chattering classes? That's really the issue for me. Just as some people might reject Scouting for not embracing the fashions of the day, I have embraced Scouting because of it's willingness to confront those fads and fashions. Frankly, it would be a lot easier for Scouting simply to knuckle under. I rather admire the decision by Scouting to live by it's own values rather than those of the fashionable people of the Democratic left wing. And lets not forget the failed policies advocated by the Democratic left over the decades. Many have been failures that have harmed the United States. The defense of Communist Party members such as the Rosenbergs obstructed attacks on the real Communist conspiracy that operated to subvert American society. Welfare policies created and encouraged dependence on government handouts. Creating a society where divorce was available on demand has done enormous damage to children and adults. Neither the left nor the right has a monopoly on wisdom. Indeed, it is probably wise to encourage a tension between these two tendencies. In that sense, perhaps Scouting is exactly where it ought to be. Seattle Pioneer

Well, BW --- rather often I wonder how you can miss the point of Scouting, and your last post is one of those occasions. I don't doubt that BSA has the authority to impose a great deal of uniformity on Scouting if it chose to do so, but it obviously does not, most of the time. Haven't you ever noticed that fact? As a practical matter, Scout units have a lot of flexibility in how they conceive and deliver the program to the youths that they serve. Somehow, I don't suppose that the uniforming policy of Hourman's troop would offend or surprise the national BSA very much. If it doesn't offend them, perhaps you should work on accepting it yourself ---after all, you are allowed the same discretion to enforce uniform standards in your unit as rigidly as you may wish. As I've said before, I think uniforming serves a useful purpose in Scouting, and I use my small influence to encourage the boys to conform to that standard. I'm sure the national BSA encourages uniforming as well, and supports that goal by encouraging uniforming and having national standards for "correct" uniforming. If there were examples of people holding the uniform in contempt by wearing it in ways that were inappropriate, those people might find themselves the target of BSA enforcement efforts to prevent that kind of abuse. But inside most Scout units, there is a thing called boy leadership which you seem to be willing to ignore on this issue, BW. Scouts have an influence over when and to what an extent the uniform is used in most Boy Scout Troops. It sounds as though Hourman's troop is aiming at encouraging uniforming and listening to the Scouts on how uniforming policies are conceived and enforced in their troop. That strikes me as a wise policy and good Scouting practice. Seattle Pioneer

How cute is this girl? Seattle Pioneer Trying to be realistic

Our district is in the Chief Seattle Council, just north of Pacific Harbor Council that operates Camp Kilworth. Our district has used Camp Killworth the past two years for spring Camporee. Far and away the biggest advantage of Camp Killworth is that it is located close in to both the cities of Seattle and Tacoma. Probably it's biggest disadvantage as a summer camp is lack of a good swimming area and small size. As a place for a troop to camp, it's fine, except that I don't know if the porta potties that were there for camporee were specially brought in for that event. Our troop has also camped at the Pacific Harbor Council's Camp Hahobus, a nice camp but about a ninety mile drive for us, versus twenty milles to Camp Killworth. The Chief Seattle Council sold off it's close in Scout Camp about twenty years ago. It was probably 25 acres or so (relatively small), but had the big advantage of being easy to get to. Now the Council camps are about a sixty mile drive. I hope the decision to sell a camp is a tough one to make for the powers-that-be at the council. It's more important to have a good Scout program than a lot of real estate. Trying to maintain too many camps can mean poor facilities and maintenance as limited resources are stretched. But the advantages of having a close in camp are real. In my district, we are fortunate to have a Kiwanis Club that has as its chief activity maintaining a nice small camp available at no cost for youth groups to use, right in the district. This camp is heavily used. I imagine that after Cub Scouts have their overnight camps, day camps and other activities at this camp for years in a row they get to know it rather too well. By contrast, a city park allows overnight camping. When the Cub Pack I work with did their overnight there it cost them $300 in fees, and there were disadvantages to having a much larger park that was open to the public. They preferred the Kiwanish Club facility, although it's a bit small. The no cost feature was an added benefit. Seattle Pioneer

Hello Semper, You don't mind if I tease you about a typo, do you? I must say you are amazingly skilled at the handbook method of deep water entry to be able to jump into a pool 6" deep and not touch bottom! Seattle Pioneer

Well BW, I'd bet that a substantial majority of Scout units pretty much run their own show with little supervision by the chartered organization. If those units decided they wanted to contribute money or materials to help start another Troop or Pack, many no doubt could do that with authority they already have delegated to them, or could obtain permission from the chartered organization if they thought that was appropriate. Seattle Pioneer

Interesting idea, Semper. But I've never heard of it being done. Is this something DEs should encourage? Seattle Pioneer

I'm willing to disclose the recipe for our Troop secret spices, good for cooking any kind of meat or vegetables. It has the advantage of being easy and cheap to mix up, and pretty much Scout proof ---since it's not hot, putting too much on is usually not much of a problem. Warning! This is for Boy Scouts, Scouters and their families ONLY! If the Girl Scouts wind up using this for next years Dutch Oven cookoff at the Camporee ----SOMEONE WILL BE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE! Equal amounts-- garlic powder onion powder paprika chili powder Seattle Pioneer

What do you need to do in order to cut portions of a post out and paste them in a reply? Occasionally this works, but most of the time the pasted portion is deleted, even when it is displayed when a post is previewed. Seattle Pioneer

Hello dkurtenbach, Re: writing the Scout Handbook as a novel- I thought every Scout wrote their own book of Scouting as they progressed through the program. If they want to see variations on the theme, they can see the books that other Scouts are writing for themselves. Seattle Pioneer

WALK to those campouts and there will be fewer posts about flabby Boy Scouts and Scouters! Seattle Pioneer

Our troop did one swimming pool meeting in place of a Troop meeting in March and another last week, both well received. Plus swimming at summer camp. But these boys need more swimming to develope their skills. I'd like to see a swim night replace a Troop Meeting every other month or so during the coming year. Another problem is that other than the SM and myself, neither the parents nor the Scouts do much teaching of boys who need help learning skills. Seattle Pioneer