concerned_scout66

Thanks to 89camper for additional details of this transaction. There are many details that I left out actually: Council mismanagement of assets, past arrests of PHC employees for embezzling council funds, recent PHC staff firings, and the recent increase in paid staff despite declining membership. I left them out because I didn't see them as important to the ethical question of selling something BSA doesn't own. Camp Thunderbird has been used for at least the last decade for Cub Scout Resident Camp activities. Mom & Me, Dad & Lad, Webelos Resident Camp, and Webelos Weeken

Thanks for the input guys. FScouter: Thanks for the SM Handbook references. There don't appear to be any hard age limitations. Instead, the guidelines are generally based on experience (which makes sense to me.) The handbook does actually mention a 12 YO PL and a 14 YO SPL but only in the context of how much support might be required from adults. iaeagle: I wondered if his concern was more about parent's cutting corners and asked at the time. This SM has rules in place forbidding parents from signing off any rank or MB requirements for their son. This rule is absolut

I know a SM in my district who feels that Scouts "advancing too quickly" should be "slowed down". He also believes that boys should be "older" when they take on positions of responsibility because it will mean more to them. I'm not sure I disagree with him but his definitions of "advancing too quickly" and "older", as well as his methods for "slowing people down", sort of raise my hackles a bit. From my conversation with him, Scouts who advance at a rate that would have them at Eagle at/before 16 YO are moving too quickly. In his opinion, a 14-15 YO Eagle is unacceptable regardless of

My wife and I both own smaller cars that get 35-40 MPG. My family of 4 will easily fit in either car and these work for virtually all of the travel we do. On the weekends that we go on Scout outings, we rent a large cab pickup truck from Enterprise. This will carry 5 people and gear. It seems odd but works very well. We've been doing this for about 6 years now. We average about 24 rental days per year. In my area I can get a pickup from Enterprise Rental Cars for < $50.00/day. If I need an SUV I'll get one but a pickup usually does the trick. By making the reservation at the lo

More information... On this issue, I've received a very nice response from the Executive Director of PRAY. It seems that the volunteer in question had actually sent the article in question to him asking for permission to display it. According to the PRAY Director, the volunteer was told NOT to display the article and specifically to use only the items they would send him. That's the end of it for me. PRAY does some awesome work and I trust that this one volunteer won't tarnish their reputation. Not so concerned anymore...

Search initiated after Scout goes AWOL. Scout hitchhikes home. (ABC 4 News) -- A 13-year boy scout who went missing in the Unitah mountains and prompted an overnight search, was found in Salt Lake Wednesday morning after he hitchhiked a ride from camp. Tuesday night, officials at Camp Steiner called deputies to report Joshua had left the camp. They told officers the scout had an argument with an adviser and took off in the dark. Camp Director Reid Hall said Joshua had a sling shot, and he was using it to throw rocks against buildings. A scout master took the sling shot away, an

SeattlePioneer, I didn't realize that Chief Seattle used the camp for Camporees but that makes lots of sense. As you know, Kilworth is only a few miles South of the border between Chief Seattle and Pacific Harbors. Our own Scout execs somehow managed to omit that usage during their "let's sell Kilworth" pitch almost 1 year ago. Along with others, I personally sent emails and letters to Doug Dillow (Council Exec for Pacific Harbors) and Brad Farmer (Council Exec for Chief Seattle) suggesting that an alliance between the 2 Councils might be beneficial. No response from either. A po

Ed, The closest Pacific Harbors Council camp is about 90 minutes away (on a good day). Kilworth is situated between Seattle and Tacoma. It used to be on the edge of the Seattle and Tacoma suburbs but is now right smack in the middle of them. In the past, Kilworth was frequently used. There is a lodge (donated by Rotary in the 40's or 50's), 2 firebowls, 2 ranges, and campsites for maybe 300 boys. Until about 10 years ago, there was a very popular short trail down to the beach. Despite the efforts of the local Scouters, the Council seems to have little interest in the cam

A deal to sell Camp Kilworth, run by Pacific Harbors Council and located in Federal Way, WA has been struck with local developers. This camp, like so many other BSA camps, was donated in the early 1930's by a local philanthropist for the use of the Scouts. The camp sits on a beautifully treed piece of land overlooking the beautiful Puget Sound. The camp is only 30 minutes from Seattle and Tacoma. There are sufficient buildings and campsites but, unfortunately, the camp is poorly maintained, badly managed, and not promoted even within the council. This land is worth millions of dol

Alki, A fine Seattle name! I used to dive there all the time in my younger days and spent quite a few years as a Varsity Coach in Chief Seattle. Welcome to the discussion. "Within the current parameters of LDS Church policy and BSA policy, however, what are some possible solutions?" I don't have any answers on this one yet. Salt Lake has responded to one suggestion I sent but is not interested in any position that has the Church admitting fault. Despite the statistics, the LDS Church holds that this is a BSA problem that must be resolved by BSA. Irving has not responded to

"If all the loyal Scouts keep telling the informed dissidents to leave....who's going to change things?" Great question. Here's my guess... After dissenting opinion on the current major disagreements is gone, there would be no change for a while. This would continue until loyalists realize that they are really all quite different. They never will figure out that "respect and defend" was a way of life that they did not learn. They never will understand that the only reason they agreed on anything was that they had a common enemy in the liberals (whose only goal was to have B

fgoodwin, Until now, I actually respected most of our posts. Thanks for setting me straight. Even more concerned...

"I think that in some areas, for some people, the BSA's discriminatory membership policies are a hindrance to recruitment." Even as a conservative I can see this is true in WA and CA. Members of my own church are embarassed to be associated with BSA because it openly promotes intolerance and bigotry. These values are simply un-American. Scouters who try to correct this problem from within are met with the standard "if you don't like it, you can leave" response. It's a vicious way of dealing with a problem -- one that only further reduces the BSA support base. Perhaps

> "If you truly care about Scouting, should you excuse the > long term failures of paid management?" No, but I think the problem is bigger than just poor corporate management. For decades, BSA has avoided direct confrontrations and encouraged America's youth to "respect and defend the rights of all people". Recently, however, BSA stopped respecting and defending and now allows outside interests to use it as a battering ram in their fight against Americans who have different opinions regarding certain controversial "moral" positions. IMHO, BSA should get back to the

I know that many of us have seen similar situations pop up from time to time. In general, I agree with NeiLup's stance. The boy is probably not ready but shouldn't be discouraged from improving. I know of one circumstance in my troop where a boy from a different troop was caught with 2 other boys stealing some of our gear at summer camp. The reason I mention this is because of the method he chose to right the situation. At one of our troop meetings, this young man asked to speak during opening announcements. He introduced himself as "one of the guys who stole your stuff at camp".