SeattlePioneer

Hey slack jawed, Thanks for your post! Any idea of what was distinctive about the program that might have been related to having a labor union be the chartered organization? Any chance of getting your dad to post some stories about his experiences with the unit and what kind of support he received from the chartered origanization? YOU were the son of a union member! To what extent did the unit draw members from the children of union members? Di the union use it's newspaper and such to help promote Scouting with members?

Hello moosetracker, Well, I wear several different hats and sometimes i have to put my hand on my head to try to figure out which one I'm wearing! When I discover problems with my Cub Scout Pack, I look for ways to use the Cub Scout Roundtable and my position as District Membership chair to address those issues. That way the program of the Roundtable and Membership Committee bubbles up from the needs of one or more units in the district rather than coming down from on high. I suspect that might meet with your approval. So when I noticed I and my pack were doing a lousy job of recruiting and retaining hispanic youth, I could review what I've seen at other recruiting nights I attend as District Membership Chair ---- no one else seems to be doing anything better. Since everyone is doing a lousy job, I looked around for help to figure out what to do and how to improve the performance of our units in this area. My opening effort in that is the February Rountable program. I also sent my opening post to our Council Vice President --Membership, who I work with. We might get things rolling at a council level to address issues at the Scout Shop, add this kind of discussion at our Council Program and Training Conference and generally start trying to decide what to do and get started doing it. I know the Soccer and Scouting DE, and he is a capable person doing what the council wants him to do. When I called him to ask him to give up an evening to talk to our Roundtable he was glad to do so. That makes him a top notch guy in my book. Our council has done Soccer and Scouting for five years or so. It used to be run out of my district by that Latino District Executive who managed just that program. A year or two ago it was removed from our district and made a council wide program. The program used to have a separate meeting on Roundtable nights and there were always quite a few Hispanic adults there, and they pretty much always had a nice spread of food and looked like they were having a nice time as adults, planning their program. I can't evaluate the program because I've never seen it in action. They have a number of teams that meet and play at regular soccer fields and they incorporate the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack and such into their program. Personally, I have no problems with it. They are adapting the Cub Scout program to meet the needs and interests of boys and families ---- I wish them the best!

Shriscov, I would be VERY interested to hear about what kind of relationship a Scout unit might have with the Pricipal of your elementary school were it chartered by the NEA based a block away! You might consider mentioning it to your staff representative or ask an officer about the possibility at an association meeting. I'd be VERY interested in what kind of reception that might receive. For AFL-CIO affiliated unions, there is the added benefit of the very nice Heorge Meany award referred to in the opening post. I doubt that many of these are requested in a year, so a person making an application to receive it might find getting approval fairly easy. Not that we do Scouting for awards, but I happen to like labor unions and I have a lot of admiration for what George Meany achieved while heaqding the AFL and merging it to form the AFL-CIO. I would like to see more labor people recognized for their Scouting contributions. As a matter of fact, I might just contact my county labor organization and ask them to set up a committee to promote and make this award.

So Scoutbox, I've been interested in how the Italian invasion of Etheopia affected the Ethiopean Boy Scout Movement after League of Nations condemnation proved to be ineffective in affecting a withdrawal. Do you suppose your wife might have archived material on that?

Anyone heard of labor unions as Chartered Organizations? Around here the Boeing Machinists have a terrific headquarters in a low income area. It might be possible to encourage them to start a Cub Pack targeted at both their own membership and neighborhood families. Unions typically have newspapers and other good methods of communication with local members, and often a good deal of institutional loyalty. A Cub Scout pack that is proudly blue collar, with a Chartered Organization that understand how to organize things and is interested in promoting it's own youth program for members and the community sounds like it could have possibilities. I noticed that there is a "George Meany Award" http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/GeorgeMeanyAward.aspx So at least at the top of the AFL-CIO and BSA there is a policy of encouraging labor unions as Chartered Partners. Can't say that I've ever heard of one myself, though. Perhaps some of the old CIO unions like the United Auto Workers that tend to dominate local communities might be be Chartered Organizations ---- that's sort of what the Machinists are in Seattle.

Another traditional Unit Commissioner job---- bird dogging the recharter each year and being a resource to help the person doing the recharter.

Basement dweller, It sounds like you have some worthwhile issues to discuss with your Roundtable Commissioner or District Commissioner about how your Roundtable is conducted. Unfortunately, the number of people with the skill and experience to do a good job as a unit Commissioner who is willing to take the time to do the job and stay in touch with units and units leaders is small. If there were more of them, we wouldn't have as many units fail. I would guess that those Unit Commissioners with the three rows of knots got them by putting in several decades worth of work for Scouting (after three decades I have one row). While I wouldn't let them monopolize or bore people at Roundtables, they probably deserve a degree of respect and appreciation. I wouldn't throw them under the bus because they are getting old and garrulous. They may still be doing some valuable work, too. Even if they aren't they are a living part of our Scouting heritage. At age 61 I've already aged out of being a Boy Scout leader. Eventually I'll age out of being a Cub Scout leader. Perhaps in another ten years I'll only be fit to attend Roundtables and such. If so, it will be after contributing FORTY YEARS as a Scout leader. You might think about that. Even so as I noted that doesn't justify being a bore and monopolizing Roundtable ----someone needs to offer some tactful leadership there.

Interesting thread. Two years ago I was Tiger Cub Den Leader in two different struggling packs. I used the beads and found them useful, and easy to manage. Boys reported their prgress at each meeting and got beads for their achievements. Handing out beads at Go See Its was easy. As Cubmaster, I have a Tiger Cub Den Leader and Bear Den Leader who aren't using the immediate recognition method. I bought some of the items and e-mailed the DLs that they were available. They haven't taken me up on this. No big deal as far as I'm concerned. EVERY description of Scout leadership requirements I've ever seen has a lengthy list of responsibilities that I've never seen anyone do completely. My approach is that such lengthy lists or a smorgasboard that I and other leaders pick and choose from, deciding what we can do and what is needed to make the program work. We make choices. That's a goodly part of what leadership is all about. So I'd look at the whole job the Den Leader is doing. If it's positive I might offer them the immediate recognition kits, but I wouldn't nag them about it if they don't use it. It's quite true that boys need to have fun in Scouting or they will leave. That applies to adults as well.

Dean, There is no "Asian" ethnic group. People from Asia are divided into hundreds of ethnic and language groups. If you go back and read the post opening this thread you wont find references to it being motivated by a cabal of Catholic and LDS church leaders --- I'm a district volunteer trying to save a failing unit in an area with a heavy Spanish immigrant population. Your conspiracy theories are inappropriate and distracting for this thread.

Personally, I wouldn't stand fast to the letter of the rules if the happiness and success of the boy is at issue. Suppose a boy hasn't earned the AOL but his buddies are crossing over to a Troop in February. The boy wont turn eleven until May. Personally, I'd consult with the boy's parents and perhaps the boy to see what he wants to do. Maybe he wants to soldier on to earn the AOL and cross over later -----fine. Or perhaps he's not interested in the AOL but wants to cross over with his buddies, and his parents like that idea too.. If that were the case I'd make that happen. His Scout application would probably be accepted even if he isn't eleven. Even if it weren't he could stay registered as a Webelos and participating in the troop until he turns eleven. I might note that most councils recruit Tiger Cubs in the spring when they are in Kindergarten and technically not eligible to join. Sometimes some judgment is called for in applying the rules, in my opinion.

I'm probably not picky enough. Opinions welcome. I'm Cubmaster in a unit that tends towards the low income. I cut neckerchiefs out of attractive sheets I get at thrift shops and cut neckerchief slides out of tree limbs with a hole bored through the middle. The necerkchiefs are ironed, neatly folded and in plastic bags ready to be used. A boy coming to a recruiting meeting gets a neckerchief and is reminded that it's neat and clean and should be kept that way. He picks whichever slide appeals to him. So he is "in uniform" at the recruiting meeting. He is a Cub Scout for that night whether he joins or not. Boys and families can decide for themselves whether and when they want to buy more of a uniform. Most do --- but perhaps it will wait to be a Christmas gift or whatever. Whatever boys wear as a uniform I expect it to be reasonably neat, clean and presentable. I wear a full uniform myself. When adults assume a Scout office, they get the same neckerchief and slide, with their Cub Scout helping them put that on rather than the opposite when the boys join. I don't nitpick adult leaders either, although I like Den Leaders to wear their neckerchief and slide.

Eagle 92, Thanks for the excellent ideas on connecting with our Catholic Parish Chartered Partner! As I read through your list, I liked the idea of the Cub Pack sponsoring a service project for the church that would invite families with young children to participate. That would be a great Scout activity from several perspectives and give new families an opportunity to PARTICIPATE in a Scout activity. I'm thinking we might aim to use Scout Sunday as a means of announcing that activity and project. Excellent idea! Why didn't I ever think of that?

Wow! Some excellent posts --- thank you! Eagle92, I checked out the website you provided and e-mailed the national group for whatever they cared to send me. The Cub Pack I work with is a traditional Cub Scout pack, and I'm an old timey Scoutmaster and Wood Badge (1985-Eagle!) so that aint likely to change. My goal as District Membership Chair is to provide a warm invitation to join Scouting for EVERY youth and family in the community. It seems our invitation hasn't been that warm to Hispanic families so far, and I'm merely trying to figure out how to make it so. This pack orientation is towards families with modest budgets. This year any family that sold $200 in popcorn could avoid our $60 membership fee for 2011 and earn a free membership ----80% of families did that. Perhaps an added plus is that my pack is chartered by a Catholic parish. The pack is kind of stuck on the exterior of the church rather than being a part of the parish community ----another thing I'm trying to fix. Hispanic families looking for an exclusively Hispanic program aren't going to be interested in my unit. All the Scouts would join the common dens. What I'm ooking to do is to remove barriers to Lationo families so they CAN participate and a warm and effective welcome so they feel invited. Anyway, that's what I'm aiming at at this time.

The pack I work with has had heavy turnover in leadership, with both den leaders new, a new Committee Chair and a ScoutParent Co-ordinator who did the rechartering last year and this year. I cut neckerchiefs out of bedsheets and cut slides out of tree branches with a hole bored through the middle. These go to boys at out recruiting nights so they are "in uniform" right away. This fall, I've started some new recongition for new adult leaders. At the first pack meeting after they complete their adult leader applications, they and their son are called up to be recognized. The Cub Scout helps put a neckerchief and slide around their parent's neck, just as the parents put a neckerchief on their son when he was recruited. The parents receive a nice certificate with their name, office and date with their badge of office lightly glued to the certificate. The certificate is in a three hole punched plastic holder. I swear in the new parent to their office " I promise to do my best to carry out my duties as _____________________ and to Obey the Law of the Pack" I usually tell parents they can decorate their neckerchief by sewing or gluing their badge of office to it or they can get a regular uniform if they wish. I think it's good for Cub Scouts to see parents join the pack with trappings similar to their own induction into the pack. And I think parents like to see their sons seeing them be recongized for their commitment to the pack. I also hopw that the Cub Scouts and Parents who aren't being recognized will decide that that recognition is worth having. What kind of recognition of adult leaders do you do in your units?

Another issue worth considering---- If you do your "explosive growth" thing, what will it do to other troops in the area? You don't have to consider that, but perhaps you should. Troop membership tends to go in cycles as leaders change. You are up today and down again in a few years. But what happens if you've killed off other troops in your area?

Hello Basement, As I mentioned, I get a fair number of Hispanic families coming to our recruiting nights, and a good many join up. The problem for my pack is rentention. When I started to look at this as a problem, I saw the kinds of issues I raised in my opening post ---- not having someone to welcome parents in Spanish, not having Spanish speakers remain in contact with new families and such. I've also talked to Hispanic youth who were in our council's Soccer and Scouting program that is aimed at Hispanic families but the boys are interested in regular Cub Scouts. The impression I get is that there are significant numbers of Latino families interested in regular Cub Scouts if we offered it on terms that allowed and encouraged them to participate. And there are a lot of Hispanics in schools in my district 30-50% is not unusual in elementary schools.

Oh. I read that as the twelve PALINS of Scouting....

I don't think English is an issue for the youth, but it appears to be a significant issue for quite a few Spanish speaking parents. Using those who are bilingual to help those parents who aren't is a natural, but is far better if it's organized rather than ad hoc I expect. And sorry, but I'm not going to undertake teaching parents English! Personally I'm not much for the multicultural ideology, but demographics are destiny. And beside, I want to have Hispanic children have the opportunities of Scouting. How to do it is what we have to figure out. And how primarily English speaking Scouts units in particular can do it, which takes advantage of our current strengths. So--- who has a district that is dealing with these issues with training and Roundtable programs? Who thinks this SHOULD be a target for district and Roundtable programs aimed at unit leaders?

I am Cubmaster for a unit chartered by a Catholic parish. I am not a church member ans only two of our ten Cub Scouts are at this point. I've worked at recruiting Cub Scouts from the parish school, but our retention rate has been poor. I lost our Committee Chair and Tiger Cub Den leader who were both church members this year. I've talked with the institutional head of the church about being more of a part of the parish community. This past year that amounted to having Scouts recognized at Scout Sunday during a church service. Still, I don't blame the chartered organization. They have their own responsibilities and problems. It's really up to us to find ways and means to become more a part of the parish and win greater recognition and support within the parish. As a matter of fact, I'm considering asking our parent committee about making a $25 donation to the parish in support of THEIR good works. There may be reasons for moving a program to a different chartered organization sometimes. But I think many units could do a better job of being a part of and supporting their CO rather than always expecting the CO to be doing for them. Are we doing all we might to support our Chatered Organizations?

Recruiting and retaining Hispanic youth ought to be a big issue in my district and council. I've decided to try to make it one. The kickoff for that event will be making that the topic for our district Roundtables i n February. The presenter will be the Council's District Eexecutive for our Soccer and Scouting Program aimed at Hispanic youth. I sent him the following e-mail outlining issues he might want to consider for his presentation. As Cubmaster for Pack 240 in the Aquila District, I've seen a good many Spanish speaking families come to our recruiting meetings, even join our pack --- and then leave before long. It seems to me that for Cub Scout packs that are primarily English oriented, there need to be some special methods used to make Spanish speaking families feel welcome and able to understand and use the Cub Scout program. I've come up with some ideas that might be helpful in this regard. These are just ideas, not proven methods: 1. Have a bilingual Spanish/English pack leader to welcome and be a friend to new Spanish speaking families. The Scout Parents Co-ordinator is a registered Scout position that has two primary purposes 1) welcoming new families to Cub Scouts and 2) signing up families to help provide leadership to the Scout unit. A description of the duties of a Scout Parent Co Ordinator is included as an attachment to this e-mail. A bilingual Spanish/English Scout Parent Co-ordinator might be your point person to keep families or just Spanish speaking families informed and engaged in Cub Scouts. Furthermore, this Scout Parent Coordinator can help co-ordinate Spanish speaking families in providing leadership to the pack in carrying out various activities. For example ---- the Spanish speaking families might take responsibility for organizing the Blue and Gold dinner for the pack and could work together to carry out that task. 2. Have Spanish literature available for pack recruiting, pack recruiting nights and whenever it's available for activities. Cub Scout handbooks for Tiger Cubs, Wolves Bears and Webelos are available in Spanish --- having those and other Spanish Scout materials available might be a useful way to invite Spanish speaking families into Cub Scouts. In particular, perhaps District Executives might be encouraged to carry, display and show unit leaders how such material might be used during recruiting nights. There is quite a lot of Scouting material available in spanish. I wonder if there is a list or website that would list much or all of that material and make it available to be easily reviewed and downloaded by unit leaders? 3. Often I find older siblings accompanying Cub Scouts to Den and Pack meetings. This might be because parents have other work or family commitments, or perhaps it's because parents don't speak English and feel their attendance would be pointless. Why DOES this occur? Are there ways Cub Packs can be more welcoming --- making a welcoming place for Spanish speaking parents? What role can these older sibling/guardians perform in the pack? What roles should they not perform? How can the pack engage the interest of these older siblings and make them feel welcomed in the pack and den and pack activities? 4. Working with the Soccer and Scouting Program --- the Chief Seattle Council has an active program aimed at Spanish speaking youth that combines elements of Cub Scouts with a soccer program. When boys are encountered who are in or who are veterans of this program, how can Cub Packs use or relate to the background in Scouting this program provides? How can the two programs be combined? Should regtular Cub Packs make Spanish speaking families that attend a recruiting night aware of the Soccer and Scouting Program? If so, how should this be done and how might the two programs be combined? 5. Contacting and inviting Spanish speaking families ---- what methods are effective in contacting the population of Spanish speaking families in the area of a Cub Scout pack? What local groups or organizations might be contacted? How might a local Catholic Parish be contacted to invite Spanish speaking families in particular? What specific methods might be particularly effective when contacting and inviting such families? Going farther afield into Council issues--- 6. The Chief Seattle Council provides a basic handbook describing Cub Scouting at no charge ----in English. This is "Welcome to the Adventure of Cub Scouting - A Guidebook for New Families." This might be equally valuable to have available in Spanish during recruiting nights for new Spanish speaking families. 7. Seattle Scout Shop I visited the Seattle Scout Shop a few days ago. While I've never noticed them being displayed before, Spanish editions of the Cub Scout Handbooks are on display, but they are on the very bottom of the display where they would be hard for people to see. The Scout Shop sales staff said that if they were displayed at the top of the dispaly, people tend to buy the Spanish editions when they want the English edition. A few other items were in Spanish, one the Cub Scout Leader Book. These were located in different places in the store that would be hard to find unless someone asked. Perhaps it would be useful to collect materials printed in Spanish in a common place in the Scout shop so people can browse through it rather than having to hunt for it. It might be worthwhile to look carefully for other Scout literature that might be available in Spanish and decide if additional choices should be stocked. The Scout shop sales staff said they can often help Spanish speakers using a few words of spanish and English the buyers may understand. They can summon Spanish speaking staff from the office for help if needed. Perhaps some sign that INVITES Spanish speakers to ask for help would be worthwhile that would be seen when people enter the Scout Shop. 8. There are lots of Hispanic social and political groups around Seattle. Perhaps the Council should form a committee to help promote and support Hispanic Scouting in the Council, and recruiting and retaining Hispanic youth in particular. If that's been done, I've never heard of such council groups. Perhaps that could be asked to make a presentation at Council Cordinated meetings.

Here's a link that describes the new BSA strategic plan, and provides a link to the plan itself. http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/AlumniAlive/Program/2010_12_Strat_Plan.aspx I've only gotten part way through the plan ---- there are a lot of changes. This should be a heads up on chages we will see happening in the next few years. Comments?

I took Woodbadge in 1985. It wasn't a cult then, and I see no evidence of anything like that in our district or units today. For me, Woodbadge deepened my habit of continued commitment to Scouting, and the image of always "working your ticket" is an image I continue to relate to. Perhaps there are problems elsewhere, I haven't heard anything like that in the Seattle area Chief Seattle Council.

Boy Scout Secret Spices Equal amounts of onion powder, garlic powder, paprika and chili powder. This is an excellent mild spice that can be shaken on top of pretty much any meat or vegentable dish. Pretty much all boys find it a tasty addition to their usually usually negligible experience with spices. Personally I use an old salt shaker as my spice dispenser and drilled out the holes to make the spices come out easier. Putting a little plastic sheeting between under the cap keeps the spices inside on camping trips. But Shhhhhhh! Don't tell this to the Girl Scouts! They win too many camporee cooking competitions as it is!

I suspect that BeAScout.Org depends primarily upon local councils to promote it's use. When I was talking to my DE about this yesterday, he said that the council might choose to slap the BeAScout.Org logo on printed up recruiting literature, posters, stickers, post cards, yardsigns and other material used in council and district recruiting campaigns. That the kind of thing some councils are already doing. But it's up to each council to decide the themes and methods they will use for their recruiting campaign.

Ummm. I took Wood Badge in 1985. At the time I'd been Scoutmaster for three years, and had significant climbing and backpacking experience before that. The Wood Badge Course I took was not ABOUT teaching outdoor skills. But in the week long camp, people had a chance to learn or improve their camping and outdoor skills. People learned from each other and learned by doing, not by formal instruction in the arts. I vividly remember laearning about the importance of being on time for meals and other aqctivities. Wood Badge Staff "adults" took their meals with patrols. The first couple of days meals and other things could be on the ragged side, and the staffers waited perhaps twenty minutes or so before dinner was served. After about five minutes, they got up and politely excused themselves, saying that they had a meeting scheduled to begin in a few minutes they had to leave for. They didn't have time to eat much of their dinner. A quarter century later and I'm still trying to get Scouting activities started on time and ending when scheduled because of that lesson, most recently at our districts Roundtable last night. To me, that experience was a dramatic example of how to teach Scouting values and practices!