scoutldr

What we are discussing here is the demise of a culture of common sense and etiquette. And I, for one, despise it. Whether the issue is cell phones, smoking, following the rules of the road, business ethics, social graces, or whatever. We have become and are raising the next generation of narcissistic, rude, hedonistic and disagreeable organisms, who think of nothing other than "what's in it for my pleasure" and "anything's ok if you don't get caught". Sad. Really sad...and scary. Animalistic behavior.

"A large percentage of our adults who would meet the eligibility criteria are already Arrowmen from their youth. So far as I know no more than one or two take any active role in the local chapter or lodge. Most still wear their pocket flap from their youth lodge." Just for the record, we all know this is inappropriate, right? Arrowmen should only wear the lodge flap of the lodge they are CURRENTLY dues-paying members of. Now with the Uniform Cop comment out of the way... Does your troop have an OA Representative (youth POR)and an adult counterpart/advisor (ASM)? Sounds like these guys need to do a better job of promoting OA within the unit. During the PLC annual planning conference, are OA events planned into the Troop calendar (or at least planned around to avoid conflict)?

Interesting analogy. And point well taken. Having earned my WSI at age 18 and more recently, BSA Lifeguard Counselor, I spent literally hundreds of hours in the pool under the watchful eye of people better at the skill than me before I was given my teaching credentials. More often than not, I went home tired, sore and bruised. Not only did I have to execute every stroke and rescue nearly perfectly, I also was judged on my teaching ability. Are we doing the same for the Scouters we charge with teaching Leadership?

I never really gave it much thought. I ask Johnny, "do you have a ride home", and he says "my Grandpa is picking me up". If I get a chance, I go over and introduce myself to Grandpa, so then we know each other. Not sure why you would need anything else. Now if there is a bitter custody battle going on, the mom might say "under no circumstances is Johnny to go home with his dad". Ok...but it's her responsibility to let us know there are restrictions, and we will do our best to accomodate it.

Curious...welcome to the campfire. You picked a good thread to jump in on! The BSA has membership requirements for all registered leaders. You must agree to the Declaration of Religious Priniciple. You must not be an avowed homosexual. You must pass a criminal background check. YOu must be wanted and approved by the Chartering Organization. If you don't pass the first three, the last one doesn't matter. I really don't know what the criteria are for a background check. Is one DUI conviction ok? Two? Only the SE and National know the answer to that. I still say the proper course is to alert the SE, then see what happens. IF the SE allows membership to continue, THEN the CO and unit committee have a decision to make. If the SE revokes membership, then your're done. As stated above, he can appeal for reinstatement at the appropriate time.

According to the training I had, the SE is to be called on Youth Protection issues. Why is this not a YP concern? So, as long as we don't let him drive, he's still a good role model, but the teetotaler atheist is not? Sheesh. Can the council not conduct an "interim" background check, and toss him? Or is that just whenever a new app is filed? I have to side with the Judge on this one...the CO can only approve leaders that MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS of the BSA. I don't think they get "local option" on this one.

Depends on the situation. Some of my fellow leaders work jobs for the military where they are required to be available 24/7 for phone calls. If they were given such an edict, they would just have to stay home. That being said, the phone calls are few and far between (like maybe once per weekend), and they usually walk off away from the group to handle business, then come back. On the other hand, if an adult were constantly calling spouse or SO "just to check in", or texting or receiving calls of a non-emergency nature, I would feel compelled to say something. When I go into the woods with my scouts, part of the benefit to me is to get away from civilization. Yes, I take my cell, but it stays in the truck or in my pack, turned off unless I need to use it for an emergency.

I too liked to get the special CSP and coffee mug. But that hasn't worked for me the last few years. Either they "forgot" or "oh, we gave it to X to give to you", but bottom line is I didn't get it. As a fully involved Scouter, I give a LOT in time and money to my unit, so I expect the parents who do NOTHING to pick up the slack. My kids are gone...it's their little darlings who are benefiting now. During my stint on District Committee, we got the lecture from the DE that we are the "pacesetters" and expected to donate first and the most...and encourage others to follow our lead. It irked me that my unit didn't get credit for any of that.

Depends on the "issue"...classified as "T" for twill or "S" for solid embroidered...some councils have many, many versions...every time a new lot is ordered and there is a variance, it constitutes a new version. Some are rarer than others.

Not to hijack, but now we have special socks for Tigers? And $16.49 for Venturing socks???? Have they lost their minds?

"On the uniforms, I have a feeling that Subaru didn't want to pay any licensing fees (especially to BSA), so they tried to make the boy's uniforms deliberately not look like they were from any particular organization." Well that didn't work so well...they definitely "looked like" Brownie vests.

Once, a long time ago, I looked at reinventing myself and becoming a Pro. Being a reasonably astute human with excellent critical thinking skills, I realized it was a no-win job. Lots of responsibility, but no authority. Job success depends on the good will and cooperation of the volunteers, the economy, and the good heartedness of donors. None of which the Pro has any control over. I have always been friendly and helpful when working with my DE(s)...but I know lots of scouters who won't give them the time of day. We have had a couple of "model scouts", (Eagle, Vigil, Lodge Chief, Camp Program Director, etc) graduate from college and come back as a DE. They didn't last more than a year. Being a pro is not "scouting"...it's an outside sales job, and you live or die by your numbers. Add to that all the program jobs you have to do if the vols won't do it. No, thanks.

Right..."fee for service". SO what we're really talking about is "cost redistribution".

Side by side photos of the (former) Field Uniform and Activity Uniform can be found on Mike Walton's site...which is now as obsolete as the uniforms! Class A/B is not BSA terminology...as pointed out, it refers to Army uniforms. http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/boyscout.htm

And if the public is really, REALLY lucky, the fact that the health department guy is an Eagle Scout will have no bearing on him enforcing the laws. ;0>

Eamonn is of course correct. I overlooked the fact that you were making the food. Of course that opens up a whole can of worms with local ordinances regarding vendor permits and health department regulations.

The others are correct. Go to the Council registrar and ask for a printout of your unit roster. On it, in addition to you and your wife, you will find the names of a Chartered Org Representative, Committee Chair, and Committee members (These are required to charter a unit). Then call a meeting of those people. They are the ones who should be handling this dilemma and making decisions. Not you and the DE. If they are indeed in "name only", tell the DE that's not acceptable and ask your COR for a full slate of interested unit leaders to help you. The CO/COR is the one who should be appointing and approving unit leaders, with your help with recruiting. This kind of thing drives me up the wall, and I think it drives away otherwise good, solid volunteers...all in a quest for "numbers". But by the time the unit implodes, the DE has gotten his raise and moved on.

I'm not a lawyer, nor a tax accountant. But the Red Cross example is one that came to mind also. They routinely charge "fee for service"...such as first aid and swimming classes, and the blood program. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they charge hospitals for blood? So I don't think that charging to cover expenses would jeopardize the "charity" designation. Another question...if the BSA went "for profit"...would anyone buy the stock?

Your council is following National policy. Reason is that BSA does not want to lend its image/brand to commercial products...except Popcorn. Rules for fundraising are on the Unit Fundraising approval form that have to be filed with your Council.

I don't know what the answer is. A while back in a different thread, I proposed charging "fee for service"...Tour permit-5 bucks. Advancement report-10 bucks. Eagle App-50 bucks. That type of thing. Of course, that would just lead to units not getting Tour Permits or filing advancement reports. That's a problem now when they're free! Having the books opened for all to see would be interesting. The IRS Form 990 for a council is public record, but only lists salaries >50K, which in my council is only two people. The other numbers are hard to decipher as to income and outgo. An annual report would be great, but I haven't seen one of those in 10 years. Even the local theater company lists its benefactors in the playbill. Is there waste in a council...sure...just like any other organization. The Executive Board is entrusted to keep a watch on that. But I have to wonder...are they doing their job, or are they just there for a feather in their resume?

Ahhh, the old ODL "hot pants". Made one talk a few octaves higher, too! I'm glad the did away with the cuff zipper. I have a 28" inseam and can't wear ANYTHING off the shelf. I like a cuff that can be hemmed.

That episode was tame compared to the one that aired (in this market) immediately before it featuring Oprah.

As long as they are on the table on the night of the EBOR, what's the diff? I find the letters to be silly anyway, and a waste of time...ESPECIALLY the one from the parent. The one from the SM is redundant, since he/she has already had the SM conference and signed the Eagle app indicating approval.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

The "approval signatures" required on the Eagle Project "plan" are: - Committee Member - Religious Institution, school or community representative - District Advancement representative - Scoutmaster/Coach/Advisor The last one is for Troop SM, Varsity Team Coach or Venuting Advisor...all equivalent Unit leader positions. It does NOT mean "Eagle Advisor", which is usally the "committee member". So, in order for the project to proceed, the SM does indeed need to "approve" the Eagle project plan. I agree with the others...if there was no intent to grant an SM conference or EBOR, then why did they approve the project? That's just a game of "gotcha" and has no place in Scouting.

Pet peeve/rant. At the risk of sounding petty, I resent it when my donation is handled with carelessness/disregard. One year, I donated in monthly installments, and the council's recordkeeping was slipshod at best. I never did get a receipt for the full amount I paid (for tax purposes). Like other councils, if one donates at least the "cost of scouting" (~$126), the donor is supposed to get an FOS CSP and a coffee mug. More often than not, my patch/mug never shows up. It's a small thing, but I am a serious collector. I don't wear the CSP, but it goes in my patch box to be sold for a buck by my widow at my Estate sale. Point is, if you say you're going to do something, then DO it. I feel taken for granted.