scoutldr

Re-reading what I posted, and pondering what OGE said (we must be about the same vintage, Eagle '70)...perhaps it's not the cell phones, per se...perhaps my beef is with helicopter parents who give their kids everything they want without conditions, and can't cut the apron strings. I recently took my sister along on an out-of-state trip to visit aged relatives...I was ASTOUNDED at the number of times her cell phone rang on a 7 hour drive...21 yo college student daughter calling about every 30 minutes...(where's my keys, where's my English book, I'm stuck in traffic, I'm eating lunch now, what time does Dad get home, what should I have for supper, I'm going to work now...yada, yada, yada!) ... drove me berserk!!! My boys are both grown and gone, and I don't hear from them up to a week at a time (live in the same city, too!). I consider that NORMAL. Is it just me??? I HATE IT!

"He's quite independent, and we treat him very much like an adult. The question is why can't the scout leaders trust the kids?" Because your son is the exception, not the rule. Not all scouts are 14 year old Star Scouts behaving as responsible young adults, and the policy has to be fair and equitable. A few years ago at summer camp (75 miles from home), we were awakened at 1 am by the camp director who had a frantic parent on the phone poised to race to camp. Seems they had been out for the evening and when they got home, listened to an unintelligible series of grunts, static and partial sentences on the answering machine, but they did recognize it as their son. They tried to call him back, but he had it turned off to conserve battery. We woke up Scout, sleeping soundly, who said "No, I'm fine, I just called to say hello". Everyone at General Quarters in the middle of the night because of a #*&^#$#*$ cell phone!!! We, too, have lost homesick scouts due to cell phones. It used to be a payphone at the trading post, but they took that out (due to leader demand)...scouts were lined up every night after dinner, calling 1-800-COLLECT. Once they hear Mommy's voice, it's all over, and they either went home or cried themselves to sleep. And more than once, our SM got a "concerned" phone call from Mommy wanting to know why Billy was being mean to her little darling....first we heard of it. Quite frankly, when I am donating a week of vacation time in 100 degree heat, I don't need that crap from a helicopter parent. Your son may be responsible and courteous. Most are not. My own nieces and nephews show up at family gatherings and spend their time in the corner "texting" (or is it "tweeting" now ... sheesh) the whole time. At our last Eagle project, one scout was trying to assemble a picnic table with one hand and text with the other...a real safety hazard. And again this morning (as every morning), I was almost sideswiped by someone trying to operate a cell phone and a 3,000 pound weapon at the same time. Unlike you, MOST parents are not teaching responsibility, manners and common sense, so they ruin it for everyone else. Welcome to life. Sorry for the venting.

OK, I believe you. Unless he wants to find a new unit, his only recourse is to politely request a signature on his Eagle Leadership Project plan. If the SM refuses, request the reasons in writing. In the meantime, finish his merit badge and POR (making sure he does a good job with it, not just wearing the patch). Then file a written appeal with the Council Advancement Chair (since the SM is also the District AC), cc the Scout Executive. The fact that there are other, older Life scouts in the "chow line" ahead of him is irrelevant and has nothing to do with your son's advancement. Advancement is not a team sport.

Hello, Mojo and welcome to our campfire. Sorry your son is experiencing this. We have just gone through this with another forum member whose son appealed to District and is awaiting a District level EBOR. I think the idea of finding a Venturing Crew is a good one...in a different District, if possible (you can join any unit that will have you - regardless of location). Your son can earn Eagle in a Crew, which is what I did back in the dark ages (called Explorer Post back then). I suggest a different District, because that way he gets a different DAC as well. Most venturing crews are high adventure, and you son may have a better time there anyway. Sounds like he has been black-balled for some reason. Have you and your son done some honest reflection to sort out why? If it's purely an age thing, then the SM is wrong and should not be holding him back. But there is a "SCout Spirit" requirement that is purely subjective. If that's a problem, it should have been addressed at his Star and Life BOR though...not wait until he's ready for Eagle signatures, then lower the boom on him. That's not fair. Our problem from this side of the forum is we only get one side of the story. I can't imagine why an "otherwise well-respected nice guy" would single out a scout for bullying. While I'm not doubting your honesty, a parent is not usually totally objective. You understand. Good luck and keep us informed.

All this talk about Exploring got me to searching for some historical clip art ...the old Exploring "circle V" logo from the 1970's. (not the "Big E") Can anyone shoot me a link? (most of the clipart links on scouter.com don't work)

Inside every Orkin Man is a potential Insect Study MB counselor! You missed an opportunity!

Thanks, Gern. I just bought Slumdog at Costco...can't wait to drop that bit of trivia as we're watching the movie!

Congratulations! For two certificates, you may need a custom job. http://www.potomacdisplay.com/pd_catalog.cgi?dmt=on&mt=6524&tt=833

I too was in an Explorer Post in the 70's ...fire and rescue. At that time in my life, it was a blast and the only thing that kept me in Scouting. I finished my Eagle as an Explorer, did three 50 milers, did Hurricane Camille search and rescue from a Huey helicopter, staffed all the council events with our hand-me-down ambulance, responded to fires and did the grunt work (cleanup and salvage operations). Took all the same training as a fully qualified firefighter...including heavy-duty rescue/vehicle extrication. The Post went co-ed during that time, and the rest, as they say, is history. Too bad the reporter missed the fine nuances of LFL, starting with the headline. They are not technically "Scouts". I think it's great. (and yes, the Scouts already get training in "lethal weapons"...we call it the "rifle range")

At least we're getting there. To give your son an idea of how an EBOR goes, Google "Eagle Board of Review Preparation" for some excellent advice and sample questions. Now is the time to review his uniform...is it clean and complete? Does it need to go to the drycleaners? Does it still fit? Any merit badges on the dresser that need to be sewn on? All patches in the correct location? As one who frequently sits on EBOR as the District Rep, what I would do is treat this like a normal EBOR...not an inquisition to determine who's "right". Hopefully that background work has already been done by the DAC which is why his appeal has been granted. The night of the EBOR is not the time to be taking "depositions" from witnesses. Once we determine he's met the eligibility requirements for Eagle, it's our job to help him become one. Hopefully your Council people are reasonable. Hope it's not mine! ;-)

Agree with Stosh. Providing "all the best for the boys" is not our mission. It's to train leaders.

As I read it, the control points vary in point value, so the strategy is to maximize points...either hit a lot of low point values, or concentrate on a few of the high values.

Didn't hear much about it, except for a blurb on the council website. Just looked at the pictures and didn't see anyone there except the Pros, since they were here on a weekday in the middle of the day. Nice motorhome. Would have been nice to have had some press coverage, or have them stay long enough for people to get over there after work. Guess they're on a tight schedule.

Won't be long before Pharmacia/Upjohn takes notice and sues for trademark infringement.

I have never seen a Second Class certificate framed and hanging on the wall of someone's den or office.

OK, Stosh, be that way. When we were first married 30-some years ago, my young bride grabbed Cinnamon instead of the chili powder. That was an interesting tasting chili.

If a video is allowed, you can bet it will be on YouTube by the end of the weekend.

I think we need a new category..."Camp Recipes"

I think you're off base, Ed. Unless there is a signed and notarized Healthcare Power of Attorney (which is included in the old BSA Medical form), I think the ER doc will insist on contacting a parent, or get a court order, unless treatment is necessary to save life or limb. Especially with the new HIPAA privacy laws.

Careful...junior can NOT sleep with other boys, if they have THEIR adult partner/guardian/parent with them...correct? I side with Beavah. However...for the lawyers out there...what is the definition of "legal guardian"...is a court order required, or is a simple handwritten permission slip giving the "guardian" in loco parentis rights and responsibilities sufficient? What exactly does it take to get BSA off the hook and comply with the spirit of YP? To me, a "reasonable man", I would think a note from the custodial parent stating that permission has been granted for "Uncle Joe" to serve as the adult partner for the Cub "family campout" should suffice. Then if Joe turns out to be a "funny uncle", the BSA and the Unit are off the hook, having done "due diligence" to ensure the safety of the youth. Or have I been watching too much "Law and Order"? Or are we in the business to second-guess the judgment of the parent, even though Uncle Joe serves this role in all other aspects of the child's life, and in fact may be helping to raise him? Kids in this situation have enough baggage to carry through life...why add to it?(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Last time I checked, I am a "single sex parent", too. ;-) "More than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled doubled since we were children." - Barack Obama, June 2008 So I don't view this as a homosexual issue...it's a family issue. I have to agree with Twocubdad. The days of the Ward and June Cleaver household are over and we need to adapt to our constituency...or consciously decide to leave them behind because they don't fit our notion of the 1950's nuclear family unit. Cubbing is "family camping"...and, like it or not, the definition of "family" is very diverse indeed.

In the US, the Boy Scout program is "chartered" to an organization to use as their youth program. The idea is similar to a "license" or "franchise" of a McDonald's restaurant. Someone else owns the restaurant, but can use the McD name, trademarks, advertising and supplies in a manner acceptable to McDonalds, Inc. In Scouting, modifiations can be made to the program to suit the CO's needs, within limits. In Scouting, sometimes the line gets fuzzy as we can have weak Chartered Organizations who participate minimally (sign the form once a year and provide a place to meet, if we're lucky), to the other end of the spectrum such as the LDS church, who uses a widely modified Scouting program as an integral part of their youth ministry...in fact it IS their youth ministry and all LDS boys are automatically registered in a unit whether they actively participate or not (which keeps the BSA happy). Also note that the GSUSA is a totally separate organization and they don't do it this way.

So, then, there was no background check completed by BSA. SOunds like the system is working as it should. If the CC/COR decide they want to proceed, they can contact the SE and go from there. I do believe in redemption...except for child/domestic abusers and pedophiles. Our current ASM was convicted of armed robbery as a teenager. The judge gave him a choice...jail or the Army. He served with honor in the Special Forces in Vietnam, and just retired from Federal service. He is one of my best friends and I would trust him with my life and my kids' lives.

On the Application, the question is still there, "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offense? If so, explain below." IF he was truthful, then you can decide whether or not to even submit the app to Council. If he was NOT truthful, and this conviction only came to light from the background check, then I would not want him anyway because he is incredibly stupid. Did he think he could lie on the question and it wouldn't be caught? A Scout is Trustworthy.

Opinions notwithstanding, as scouterclaude pointed out, BSA policy is "All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders" So excluding the parent/District Commissioner was just plain wrong. I would have had a face-to-face with the Supreme Chief of the Fire.