scoutldr

Welcome to the campfire, SaintCad. As we say, pull up a log and set a spell. There are several theories about the BSA position against homosexuality. The official party line is that the BSA believes that homosexuals cannot provide a good, tradtional family values role model for impressionable young men. Another theory is that several large mainline religious denominations who use the Scouting program in their youth ministries are holding the BSA hostage if they should alter their policy, potentially removing thousands of members and millions in financial support. There are many Scouters who disagree with the policy and believe that the BSA should end the dichotomy presented by the mixed messages (be friendly, courteous and kind, but kick out the homos). On the other hand, there are many Scouters who think that the discrimination is justified and that all gays should be shunned because they are going to burn in hell. As more and more denominations (e.g., Episcopal) begin to accept homosexuality the BSA is presented with a dilemma. Do they revoke the charters of those units attached to organizations which do not support the BSA stance, or do they just look the other way to preserve membership numbers? There are surely many gay scouts and scouters, but it should also be noted that the BSA has not (to my knowledge) engaged in any "witch hunts". But, if a member should openly "avow" a gay lifestyle, their membership is quickly and quietly revoked without recourse. In some councils, it has been reported that memberships are revoked based purely on rumor and hearsay. Among experienced Scouters, it is generally accepted that discussions of their sexual orientation, whether gay or hetero, simply have no place in the scouting environment. Boys just want to camp, have fun and learn cool stuff. My personal opinion is that the BSA will evolve over time. When I first started in Scouting some 44 years ago, women could hold no positions in a Cub Pack except Den Mother. There were no women Scoutmasters and certainly no "Arrow-women", and there were separate units for blacks. I was a member of an Explorer Post in 1969 when the Exporing program (precursor to Venturing)first went co-ed. Now I hear there are all-female Venture Crews. Who woulda thunk it? Times change, and the BSA will have to continue to change too if they want to remain relevant to society.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

OK, that does it...use of the 00000 word should not be tolerated in this or any other forum! (Does it mean "hugs"?) acco, thanks for the enlightenment. I'd still like to know specifically what the "service to youth" entailed.

Ditto, ditto, ditto. Fred is just passing on BSA news articles. Don't shoot the messenger!

This illustrates the downside of having myriad committee members (and/or ASM) who serve no real purpose.

Doesn't matter what the explanation is...it is incorrect.

I'm still searching for the evidence of "truly noteworthy and extraordinary service to America's youth." So, he allowed the use of FT AP Hill to continue. This was not an original idea. Did his predecessors also get the SB? The BSA was clearly motivated by political pressure. Since this thread has declined into political and personal attacks, it's time to close it and move on. I'm beginning to see Kahuna's point.

It is really annoying when adults take over because "this is a better way to do it." If we don't want to let the APL do his job, then why have APLs? I agree with the above posts. The APL has a job to do. We have to be fair and give him a chance to step up and do it. It may require a lot of mentoring and guiding from the SPL and (as a last resort) the adults, but that's the program we agreed to deliver.

As we wax nostalgic, I am reminded that times are different now. The days of kids having the months of June, July and August to just do what the mood demands are over. We used to get out of school around the first week in June and didn't go back until the day after Labor Day. The days in between were unstructured, save for the week at Summer Camp or family vacations (which my family never did). Wake up around 8, wolf down a pop tart and glass of juice, grab your bike and head out for the day. Mom didn't see me again until 5 pm which was dinner time and Dad got home from work(5 pm, not 5:05). Nowadays, both parents work and the concept of year-round schools is spreading (the parents love it!). My coworkers who are parents of younger children are wringing their hands about now, trying to figure out what to do with Junior for the summer. Gotta get the day care, day camps and computer (or horse or space or you-name-it camp) lined up and paid for. Some get shipped off to Dad for the summer and it's his problem. Some are left to their own devices at home, and the parents are distracted all day wondering what kind of trouble they are getting into. I realize that some parents don't have a choice and have to work. But some choose to work just to support an affluent lifestyle. Families do not raise their children any more...they hire people to do that so they can have satellite TV, a $400,000 mortgage, two car payments, boats, jet-skis, cruises, a vacation home at the beach, and eat out 6 times a week (we're too busy to cook,you know). It can't be done, you say? We did it. I was a mid-grade civil servant through the 80's and 90's and my wife stayed home until our second son was in middle school. Then she went to work as a School Nurse at half the pay of a hospital nurse (which requires rotating shifts and weekends). No cable TV, drive 10 year old used cars, cook and eat at home as a family, and do things that are fun, but free. I passed up promotions which would have required relocating, so that we could remain in our hometown 5 miles from the grandparents. My two sons had real summers, like we used to have, going fishing with Pop-Pop, both parents home every night, and they both grew up to be fine young men who never got into trouble. I can't help but think that it was related to the choices my wife and I made. We're not rich and I don't have the material things that my coworkers seem to have amassed. The grandparents have all passed on but one, who is now living with us. I was able to be with them and care for them as they lived their last days. I have no regrets. We're still together and happy. Is the world better off today? I think not. I really fear for the future generations. Sorry for the soapbox.

In this council, camp staff are considered Council employees, therefore they appropriately wear the grey(silver) loops. They are also registered in a Venturing Crew specifically for camp staff, therefore they wear the Venturing green shirt. The crew unit number is the number of the Council. There is also a rule regarding "two insignia with the same meaning". If the scout is wearing a position patch on the left sleeve, there is no reason to wear another insignia designating position.

One sermon has stuck with me over the years. It's not enough to confess and say you're sorry to gain forgiveness. You have to REPENT, which means changing the bad behavior and never doing it again. Only time will tell if there was true repentance. The young man made restitution, publicly apologized and showed genuine contrition. What else do we expect him to do to make it right before he turns 18? In my mind the question of "Is he Eagle material?" requires more information than we have been given. Is there a pattern of anti-scoutlike behavior, or is this an isolated lapse in judgment?

>>Puts his language and uniform police hats on at the same time

You need to understand that District and Council professionals (and volunteers) are trained not to take "no" for an answer. The reply, "OK, then you can just be the District Membership chair" is akin to the "It's only one hour a week" lie. (If I understood your post correctly).

"I'm in the process of trying to get the School calenders, the District and Council calenders, the OA calender, the list of what the HS Band is doing, a regular calender, the Flotillas calender,any plans that Her Who Must Be Obeyed has.Dates of local events." What you are missing is enough weekends. After you factor in all of the above, there won't be any left! Been there, done that.

Yeah, and we have speed limits, and throwing your butts out the window is against the law, and getting a suntan is bad for you. Am I responsible for pointing this out to every violator I see? What's that bible verse about worrying about the log in your own eye first? The only obligation I have is to try to serve as a good example. Let the UP who is without fault write the first ticket. Sometimes we take this scouting stuff way too seriously.

"I know a Crew that is a Scouting youth program home for an OA Lodge's LEC." Does anyone else see a problem with that?

If we substitute any other adjective for the word "Jewish", such as "Methodist", "Catholic", "Baptist" or even "American", would the article be any less accurate?

As Miss Manners would say, "criticizing how a fellow volunteer dresses can neither be constructive nor discreet. It's just rude."

One of my mentors once told me, "When you're not sure what to do, just figure out what the right thing is and just do that." Most of the time, your first intuition will be correct.

1966 here. Had shelter halves purchased at the Army-Navy store for around $20 for a complete tent. OD Green canvas with buttons and two piece wooden poles. When it rained, we had to trench around the tent to keep the water from running in under the tent...no floor. They were heavy to carry and hot in the summer...11 year olds have to have them buttoned up tight to keep the bears and other woods monsters out! My buddy and I almost died (literally) when we emptied a can of RAID in the tent to kill the skeeters. We were up all night with vomiting and diarrhea, which almost turned me off to camping forever.

I think what you are experiencing is the current method of "writing a report" for school. Go to the internet, Google your subject, cut and paste some paragraphs, print it and turn it in and get an "A". They are not actually required to "learn" anything. I agree, you are doing the right thing. If the requirement is to "discuss", they should be able to carry on a conversation on the topic without notes. Also, my understanding of the MB process, is that they are supposed to actually meet with the MBC before beginning any work on the badge. In that meeting, you would go over the requirements and explain your expectations.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Echoing what nldscout said. We have a SN troop in our council (MR and Down's) and the guys are still working on advancement and MB well into their 30's and 40's. I look forward to working with them at summer camp every year. I have great admiration for the "adult" leaders who work with them every week. These "scouts" are grown men in every physical respect and I imagine they can be a handful.

Just a reminder that BSA policy is that any parent or legal guardian may attend and OBSERVE any BSA function or activity. That includes OA and summer camp. It's up to the trained, registered leaders to ensure that YP guidelines are strictly adhered to. At our summer camp, any parent is welcome to show up and walk around, but they must check in with the Camp Director, show picture ID and get a hospital-like ID bracelet. As far as I know, the unit does not have the authority to exclude them.

In some councils, reservations would be granted in order of popcorn sales figures. The top-selling troop gets first choice.

I think it's not so much the rules, as it is the presentation. Every year at summer camp, we have to endure the Sunday afternoon "orientation". The scouts are herded around the camp, where they are lectured on the "rules" for each area, most of which don't change from year to year. There is one particular female staff member we refer to as the "smile police". If someone is having fun, it seems to be her job to stop it. The way she comes across as a Drill Instructor addressing a squad of recruits doesn't make the message any easier to swallow.

I would start with a Unit Budget Plan, which the PLC can help with. I have seen units maintain 5 figure bank accounts, which is really unnecessary in my opinion. Lisa is correct...each activity, as part of the planning process, should include a budget and a plan for how to raise the money. Handouts from mom and dad and donated gas/equipment from leaders should be a last resort. The troop committee's input should include the operating expenses: registration, training fees, camperships, awards, etc. The troop Quartermaster should plan for equipment replacement and maintenance. Ideally, your yearly budget should have a zero balance...income equals expenses...with a small contingency factor of say, 10-15%. This teaches the boys to "pay as you go"...and that there's no free lunch.