scoutldr

Just my opinion...I would say no. A service project is based on the "good turn", which is supposed to be without compensation. This is not "service"...it's selling a product, which is being used to offset the cost of things they would otherwise have to pay for. Now if the fundraiser is to benefit your CO or a church, or the local neighborhood park, that's different.

Can you still buy a BSA motorcycle? I just looked at a group called Awana...church based, but similar to Scouting. Their uniforms are cheaper and they only have shirts!!! I found it interesting that their youngest group is called "Cubbies". Bring on the Lawyers!

SR-768 Wood Badge Course SR-768 runs September 29-October 1, 2006 and October 20-22, 2006 in Camp Lions at Pipsico Scout Reservation, Surry County VA. For more details, see: www.tidewaterbsa.com (training)

SR-768 Wood Badge Course SR-768 runs September 29-October 1, 2006 and October 20-22, 2006 in Camp Lions at Pipsico Scout Reservation, Surry County VA. www.tidewaterbsa.com (training)

I lost my dad and best friend in 1995. The best gifts he left me I only realized after he was gone. He taught me how to be a good father, husband, Scout leader, employee, patriot, and citizen. He taught me to fend for myself and pay my own way. He taught me how to change my own oil and sparkplugs. Never ask others to do for you what you can do for yourself. Face your fears and don't procrastinate. When you make a mistake, fix it and move on. When it's time to go, go with dignity and courage. Sounds like our Dads were cut from the same cloth. We are so fortunate. God Bless.

I am in the SE Virginia area. This week, it's 97-101 degrees during the day, with 60-70% humidity. "Black flag" conditions on the military bases (no unnecessary physical activity). It happens like this every year, so it's not like it was a surprise.

2007 will be the 400th anniversary of the settlement of Jamestown, Virginia. There will be activities all year long. Pipsico Scout Reservation is directly across the James River in Surry County and is accessible by ferry (camping and cabins available). Known as the "historic triangle", Jamestown, Colonial Williamsburg and Yorktown are all within a few miles' radius of each other. A little further south of there is Norfolk and Virginia Beach. Also the Outer Banks Historical Trail on the outer banks of NC. www.tidewaterbsa.com www.cvcboyscouts.com Looks like greeneagle and I were typing at the same time. Great minds think alike!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Our camp also has strict rules about visitors. For the first time this year, we ALL had to wear those silicone wristbands (e.g. LIVESTRONG). Campers and unit leaders wore red. Staff wore green. Anyone without a band was shot on sight (just kidding). ALL visitors had to check in at the office and had to provide a picture ID (which they Xeroxed) and a unit leader to vouch that this person had the legal right to take custody of the scout, if leaving early. Must be a new National policy to prevent non-custodial parents from taking kids. In this case, the staff was correct, you were technically trespassing. I would have handled it a little more diplomatically, however. But considering what your attitude may have been, maybe not.

51 boys went to camp. All 20 new scouts went to camp. We still don't know how many are in the troop (denominator).

I found several sources. They are about $6. Google is a wonderful thing.

"The following is the URL for the bios of Camp Onteora's leadership. I repeat my earlier question, 'ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN AT CAMP ONTEORA?" I looked at the website and I don't understand what your point is. All I see are photographs of two gentlemen and their brief bio, which look remarkably like the bios of any of us. From what you wrote, the main issue seems to be that a staffer did not provide a ride for your son from his campsite to the parking lot in order to meet YOUR schedule. Based on that, your reaction appears to be way out of line. If you were treated rudely, perhaps it was in reaction to your demanding and critical attitude. Scouters are human, too.

As I said, I was trying to be objective and present all points of view, not place blame. For the scouts to assume that they could be paid in advance of their normal payday was a mistake on their part, IMHO. You know what they say about assuming... Did they have an employment contract or other written agreement that spelled out what the pay procedures are? I also said, "On the other hand, the Director agreed up front and should have had a plan before he agreed to hire them." So I did not let the R/D off the hook. I do think it's a mistake to hire staff for the summer and then make exceptions that you can't cover with other qualified staff (such as with my A/D example - there was no NCS qualified A/D in camp that week).

One of my favorite sayings is "We are victims of nothing but our own bad choices." (I made that up myself) In my opinion, the Camp Director made a bad choice in hiring a number of senior camp staff, knowing that they would "bail out" later in the summer. If they held critical positions, it's nearly impossible to hire someone to cover those jobs for a week. Those with the misfortune to be attending camp that week will get a lesser program experience. Is that fair to them? I believe that when a Camp Staffer agrees to be hired, it should be for the entire term of the assignment. (We once had an Aquatics Director who missed a week of camp because they "had to go to an out of council camp with their troop" - unacceptable in my opinion) If they wanted to go to NOAC, then camp staff is not a job option, and they certainly should not have expected to have the payroll process altered just to meet their special needs. It's all about making tough choices and not being able to "have it all". On the other hand, the Director agreed up front and should have had a plan before he agreed to hire them. (Making some assumptions here) From what I see, as a parent, there is nothing for you to be angry about. We are just seeing predictable consequences...an important life lesson. If they choose not to return to camp staff next year, the Camp Director also learns a lesson(hopefully), as long as he knows why they are not returning. And just out of curiosity, don't the other scouts have parents with ATM cards? Sometimes our biggest stressors are from problems we take on that don't belong to us. Yes, we should help others...with "cheerful service". Remember that thing about "irksome tasks". I don't mean this to sound hard and uncaring...just trying to provide an objective view. And I admit I'm reading a lot between the lines and may have it all wrong...

A Camp Director (especially if he's still at camp) would appreciate a "care package" of homemade brownies or cookies. You're right about the patches...he probably has all he needs, but a gift for the stomach would please anyone. (I speak from experience!)

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

Why in the world would someone pay $2.6 million to renovate property that they don't own?

Our scouts are told up front that if they bring valuables to camp (money, gameboys, cell phones, etc), THEY are responsible for keeping track of them. If it comes up lost, stolen or broken, I don't want to hear about it. The take home lesson here is "don't leave your stuff at the rifle range."

Stewart and Colbert are vulgar comedians (and poor ones at that). Not journalists.

Stewart and Colbert are comedians (and poor ones at that). Not journalists.

Transportation! Of course...how silly of us to be looking under "Safety Afloat". Thanks scoutingagain. Reasonableness prevails.

I was browsing on the national site and noticed that there is an "award" patch for scouters who host a unit open house. http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ba There's also a survey where you can provide input for the next edition of the BS Handbook. (what should be added/deleted, etc)

This issue has been discussed before. See, to wit, http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=114341#id_114346 The exact language from the "Rules and Regulations" (which we mere volunteer mortals never see) are as follows: Rules and Regulations, Article XI, Section 1, Local Council and Unit Finance Clause 2, Disposition of Unit Funds Upon Termination of Local Council or Unit (b) Unit Obligations. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organizaiton or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America. © Administration of Local Funds by Corporation. Any property or funds acquired by the Executive Board upon the dissolution of a Scouting unit or local council shall be administered so as to make effective, as far as posssible, the intentions and wishes of the donors. (d) Special Funds. Special funds created for specific purposes, acquired by a unit or local council, shall be vested in a bank, trust company or BSA Intravest Trust, in trust for the use of the unit or the local council, in accordance with the wishes of the donors, with the provision in the statement of the conditions governing the admiinistering of the funds that in the event of the dissolution of the unit or council or revocation or lapse of its charter said trustee or trustees will, after satisfying any clams against such fund, turn over to the Boy Scouts of America the balance for use by the Boy Scouts of America for the benefit of Scouting in such locality and for the specific purposes for which the fund was granted. If there is no suitable opportunity for the use of said fund in such locality, it may be used elsewhere. As I said in the previous thread, "the DE should sit down with the original CO and ascertain their intentions of continuing their affiliation with the BSA. It is the DE's job to "talk a blue streak" to get them to maintain the charter and not give up the unit. If they intend to reform a unit in the future, the CO can retain the assets "in trust" for that future unit. If they have no such intention, the assets revert to the Council for use as they see fit. That's the terms of the Charter agreement that they signed when your unit was formed. Under NO circumstances do any of the assets belong to the Scouts or Unit leaders to do with as THEY see fit. If the CO wants to allow scouts to transfer their unit accounts (if any) to their new unit, that can be negotiated, I guess." NOTE: In the former thread referenced above, it seems to possible in some states for a scout unit to incorporate as a legal entity, in which case, ownership of the assets may be different. In most cases, however, a unit is not a legal entity and does not "own" anything. They are merely a youth program operated and owned by the CO, similar to a church youth group.

The G2SS states: "Properly fitted U.S. Coast Guard-approved personal flotation devices (PFDs) must be worn by all persons engaged in activity on the open water (rowing, canoeing, sailing, boardsailing, motorboating, waterskiing, rafting, tubing, and kayaking)." It further states, "Note: For cruising vessels (excluding rowboats, canoes, kayaks, and rafts, but including sailboats and powerboats greater than 20 feet long) used in adult-supervised unit activities by a chartered Venturing crew/ship specializing in watercraft operations, or used in adult-supervised program activity in connection with any high-adventure program or other activity under the direct sponsorship and control of the National Council, the standards and procedures in the Sea Scout Manual may be substituted for the Safety Afloat standards." Not having a Sea Scout Manual, I don't know what it says. Perhaps Skipper Eamonn can help. Looks like our troop will have to cancel it's trip to Europe on the QE2, since it's a "motorboat". I'd feel kinda silly going to dinner at the Captain's Table wearing my USCG approved PFD over my tux. Seriously, though, here is another "gray area" which the G2SS does not adequately address. I would have a chat with my SE about the planned event, and hopefully the "reasonable man" rule can apply.

Congratulations to your nephew. Yes, this is a common practice. I have sat EBORs where a scout's Priest (an Eagle Scout), a favorite teacher, a neighbor, etc, were invited to participate. As the District rep, I explain the ground rules (not a retest, ask open-ended questions, etc), and offer a list of possible questions if they care to use them...or they can ask their own if they want. It usually goes very well.

For the MB at camp, you need to have a frank discussion with your Council Advancement Chair and Camping Committee Chair. If the camp is not in your council, a polite but succinct letter to the Scout Executive of that council is called for, stating that you will not be returning to his Council's camp if they keep shortchanging your scouts.