scoutldr

I vote "no". The religious programs are not BSA programs and should be earned through the Scout's church. The only connection with BSA is that the emblems earned are allowed to be worn on the uniform. While "duty to God" is a tenet of the BSA, religious instruction is not in our mission...nor should it be.

Gern said, "I'm one of those people who think obesity is choice, not a disease." This statement shows how ignorance leads to discrimination. I am 52 years old and have been obese since the day I was born. There is a genetic predisposition, and the disease called obesity is very complex. If it were about "choice" or "education", I would not be this way. That's like telling someone with Asperger's that they are just "choosing to be bad" or telling someone with depression to "just snap out of it." Smoking is an optional choice, but one of the most revered Scouters on this forum chooses to remain a bad role model. So, at the risk of highjacking this thread, let me say that I wrestle with the same moral dilemma. The God I know does not allow me to judge and reject our fellow humans. He reserves that right solely unto Himself. My religious teaching tells me I am to "love my neighbor as He has loved us." I find it difficult to remain loyal to an organization that forces me to discriminate, contrary to my religious upbringing. Yesterday, I saw a TV spot from the United Church of Christ, showing a gay couple embracing in church, and being forcefully ejected (as with an ejection seat). The closing message was "God doesn't reject people, and neither do we." Is the UCC the next organization to risk the wrath of the BSA?

Why in the world would we need 8 different styles of Stetson hats? Made by Stetson, I expect they won't be affordable.

As a frequent EBOR member, I would be more impressed if the thank you note came from the Scout. That being said, I've never received one ... from anyone.

It's not a question of language, culture, or freedom. It's a question of respecting the laws of the country. My forefathers were German immigrants in 1765. They immigrated legally through the port of Philadelphia and I have copies of the paperwork to prove it. I'm not saying the current laws or immigration processes are correct. But it is the law until changed. Crossing the border without permission (no they have not been "invited") is a crime. If you don't agree with that, then work to have the law changed.

I guess what I find most ironic is that those who most vehemently oppose non-English speaking immigrants are those who can't properly conjugate a verb, distinguish between "too" and "to", "breath" and "breathe", or "there" and "their", recognize apostrophic abuse, or understand etymology. Its like to intoxifying for word's

Ed, the root word for intoxicant is "toxin" meaning poison. The word is appropriate.

"...but ultimately they SHOULD learn it in the language it was written in." I guess the same could be said of the Bible. Anyone up for Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek lessons?

Have to disagree, oldsm. I think that teaching a scout to earn his own keep and pay his own way in society is one of THE most important "scouting outcomes." "A Scout is Thrifty"

Here we go again. The phrase, "(you) may not allow" answers the question, "May I allow the use of tobacco." (No, you may not.) Aren't there any English teachers in the room? (Except Eamonn)

Gas here is running from 2.919 to 3.079 for UNL regular. I paid 2.939 yesterday and felt like I scored a bargain! The reality of the situation is harsh, but necessary. The scouts and their parents need to understand there is no free lunch. Every activity needs to be budgeted and paid for somehow. Our biennial winter trip to Gettysburg and Ski Roundtop will not be done with donated gas next time. Or maybe it won't be done at all.

For tax deduction purposes, the IRS only allows 14 cents per mile. We are lucky in that our council camp is only 80 miles away. I usually take my own vehicle, in case I get called home or want to run into town, so I don't expect reimbursement. For trips longer than that, a gas fee will be figured into the cost per scout.

When taken in context, the decision is a committee decision...not of one individual (i.e., the CC or SM). Once the committee approves the alternate requirement, the SM's job is to document completion. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements. The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements.

Parents are welcome to "observe" any BSA meeting or activity...that's BSA policy. They don't, however, get to impose their opinions or standards without being asked, unless they are registered leaders. And in no case, should an adult be distractive or disruptive.

I always thought that the scout, his family, and physician, with consultation with the SM, would come up with an alternative proposal to submit to the Council advancement committee. For the benefit of those reading, here is the complete policy: A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met: The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability. The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternative requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements. The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements. When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician. The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader. (Source: 33215F - page 13)

I also remember these from the 60's/70's...I think they were called "Scoreboards". I still have mine in a drawer somewhere. It's all we used. When I visited the coucil shop at National Capital Area Council in Bethesda, MD a few years ago, they were still had some on the shelves.

Anarchist said,"give them little jobs like long range planning, summer camp research, trek possiblity research,..." Just make sure they don't fall into the pattern of doing the PLC's work for them. We have this same issue with OA chapter meetings. Frequently we have just as many adults show up as youth, and they sit around the back of the room socializing. I find it distracting and a bit rude while the Chief is trying to conduct a meeting. The key is, if they are going to show up, make sure they have something constructive to accomplish....if they want to socialize and chit-chat, they need to be somewhere else.

Since I found the same program (and patches) independently in two different councils, I thought maybe it was one of those programs that was recognized nationally but not adopted universally, (such as Mic-O-Say...which I had never heard of until reading this forum).

How about staying for the fun and making lifelong friends? More than 35 years later, I still keep in touch with some of my Scout buddies...and it's comforting to know that I can go anywhere in the world and flash the scout sign and have a friend and brother Scout respond.

Contrary to popular belief, life does not end at 52. I will be 52 in Sept and I'm just thankful that I don't have a 7 year old like one of my co-workers the same age. My sons are 27 and 24, have full time jobs and are done with college. Just when I thought life was going to get easier and I would finally have some disposable income, my mother in law moved in with us. I still do scouting as a troop CC and district committee, but am seriously considering pulling back and devoting some time to me. Can't get past the guilt feelings that if I quit the troop, so will the SM and ASM...two buddies who started the troop with me and both of whose sons are also grown and gone and have no reason to stay. I've been searching for successors, but no one wants to step up to the plate. If we leave, the troop will probably fold.

Being home sick for 2 days (bad back), I have been surfing a lot. I have come across this program in two different Councils (Texas and Utah), using the same requirements and "Quality Leader" emblems (worn in place of or in addition to the "Trained" strip). It appears to be administered by the Commissioner Corps. Since this is in more than one council, is it a National program? I'm just amazed I've never seen nor heard of it before...it is not used in my Council, but I just may suggest it. Is anyone else familiar with this program? The requirements seem pretty rigorous. http://www.longhorndistrict.org/training/qualityleader.htm (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

Our camp also restricts vehicle traffic in camp. Upon check=in, one "gear vehicle" is allowed to unload at the site. Then it must be returned to the parking lot. This is for a)safety and b) to reduce wear and tear on the dirt roads, especially in wet weather. Invariably, there are one or two who feel that they can leave their vehicle in the site and they need to be told to move them. The roads are primarily for emergency vehicle access, deliveries to the dining hall, and for the Ranger to make his rounds for maintenance and trash pickup.

Having just re-read the description of BALOO training, the two operative words that stand out are "Outdoor" and "Overnight". Indeed the term BALOO is an acronym that stands for "Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation". It is designed for cub scout camping. I don't think that a "field trip" to the aquarium qualifies as "camping" and therefore requiring BALOO and a council site inspection. I am on the Council camping committee...we do not inspect the site every time a unit wants to do a "lock in" or other such event. We do publish a list of approved sites for Cub Camping....they are all campgrounds. The more important and apropos training that ALL adults should have for an event like this would be YP. Just my opinion.

Once the rank is awarded (BOR passed), there is no looking back. It's not the scout's fault, as you said, and we never penalize a scout for the ignorance or incompetence of the adults. There is a need for some retraining (or initial training?) of the unit leadership so that it doesn't happen again.

"Judging" is such a hard word. Indirectly, the professionals are evaluated on the program end. To make Quality District, 60% of the units need to make Quality Unit. Those requirements involve delivery of the program as well as recruiting. A DE who consistently fails to lead his district to the QD award will face a closed door session with his boss. So, a DE's career is dependent on his/her ability to encourage, cajole, persuade and coerce volunteers to do the many and sundry jobs that need doing, without any real hammer or power to do so. Not an enviable position. Most of them earn far less than the job's worth when you consider the hours, hard work and frustration involved with working with old curmudgeon scouters who were Silver Beavers before he was born.