scoutldr

No worries, Lisa. I appreciate the candor, but it''s not the deal breaker. I think my fellow leaders may want to attend, but not sure our 50-something pot bellies will still fit in a kayak :-). We''re still considering all options...our boys are all Star/Life and are looking for something beyond the standard summer camp fare, which is all our council camp offers.

Why don''t you offer to take the "Pack Trainer" position on the Committee. Then it''s your job to see that everyone gets trained (you are the "facilitator"). As for new leaders who sign up, training should be an expectation upon approving the application. Put it to them as if "everybody has to do it, it''s not optional."

Thanks for the replies. After talking to the SM who returned from out of town today, we may try to steer them to their second choice, Bayport Scout Reservation Chase Program. They went to Bayport this year and loved it. Plus, it''s closer by 3 hours. Don''t know...still kicking it around.

For the record, my two sons went to college and I paid the whole thing...no scholarships, no grants, no nothing, in spite of spending hours filling out forms. Not even a "work-study" offer. We are in that "middle ground" where I make too much for "need" and their grades and athletic ability were not good enough for "merit". Being white males didn''t help any, either. So, the great middle class takes it in the shorts again. How did I do it? Planning and sacrifice. I still live in the same home after 23 years and drive used cars. I felt my kids'' education was more important. I got a small inheritance when my parents died and it all went to college tuition instead of a new boat or cruise to Jamaica...otherwise I''d be paying off loans the rest of my life. And they didn''t go to Ivy League schools, either...they went where I could afford to send them and one lived at home. I told them "you have 8 semesters paid for...use them wisely". Both got their degrees...on time.

No regulations that I''m aware of. The official uniform is always appropriate except when engaged in non-popcorn fundraising. Otherwise it''s up to your CO as to what''s appropriate. Some churches, for example, may not like the boys going around dressed in devil costumes.

Concur. "SecondclassLifeMom" just doesn''t ring well...

I didn''t say it was good or bad...just throwing out the numbers. I think it is beyond the reach of most of our current families in our unit, unless they stage some major fundraising efforts. Just a few years ago, they made the trip by bus, and it was a 3 week commitment.

The older I get, the more Libertarian I get in my thinking. How about let''s let everyone keep their tax dollars and use them to buy whatever they need. Want to send your kid to high school? Great...the Catholic HS down the road from me charges $10 grand a year. Too much? Maybe the Lutheran school or the charter school is cheaper. What''s that? You want the better Catholic school, but can''t afford it because you had three kids out of wedlock and only make minimum wage? Sorry...that was your choice, so you deal with it. My kids are out of school...maybe I''ll use my tax dollars to buy that new boat I''ve been wanting. After all...isn''t that what vouchers are all about? No, you say? You want to use MY tax money to pay for YOUR voucher? Now, why in the world should I be paying to educate YOUR kids??? Because it''s the best thing for society? SO every child can have an education??? Wait a minute...that''s why we gave you PUBLIC schools and you didn''t want them, remember???

We are on the east coast and our Council contingent fee is estimated to be $1300-$1600...flying into ABQ, includes tours of Sandia labs, whitewater rafting and two nights in a hotel.

The answer to your basic question is, no the BSA doesn''t have standards for the behavior of parents, except as it relates to Youth Protection policies. The parents are not members, the kid is. There is no background check performed on parents until they apply to become registered leaders. That is one basic level of protection...EVERY adult who regularly comes in contact with scouts as a volunteer SHOULD be registered (i.e., background and references checked). My previous advice still stands...have a chat with your SE and explain your concerns. But don''t be surprised if the decision is to revoke the boy''s membership (which is really all the SE CAN do, in the absence of abuse or neglect). Sacrificing one for the good of the group and the good name of the BSA is not unheard of.

At our troop meeting last night, the boys decided they''d like to try Pamlico Sea Base for 2008. Looking for comments, advice, critiques. We are about 4 hours away by car. I note in the literature that adult leaders are not required to attend...how does that work out?

Locust, what is your position with the Pack?

SE=Scout Executive...the "top dog" at your council. All of the Council professional staff work for the SE. You have already been given sound advice. Request a meeting with your Scout Executive and say it's a "youth protection" matter. This is a code phrase that will get an immediate response, without you having to do a lot of explaining to the secretary. Then do what he/she advises you to do. If the advice is something that you are uncomfortable with, or is incompatible with being a law enforcement officer, then you have a decision to make. (This message has been edited by scoutldr)

"One of our technical programs is considering a special remedial program to help certain students who are not prepared for college-level math, physics, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, etc. This new program will consume extra resources that will take away from other parts of the overall program." To analyze this, we have to ask why they are "not prepared". My local (public) high school offers math through AP Calculus, AP Physics, and other advanced course work that bestow college credit if they pass the AP exam at the end. You can''t expect to excel in a college engineering curriculum if you make a D in high school Algebra 1 and stop there. My observation is that those kids who work hard and take the challenging courses in HS will do well at any college. Most do not want to do that, though...too hard. And the parents don''t push it...also too hard. Another observation...when I was going through HS and college (early 70s), we had a good idea of our major field of study byt 10th grade (certainly by 11th), so we could take the proper preparatory coursework. By our senior year in college, most of us were interviewing and had job offers in hand. Today''s students seem to be "developmentally delayed" in that respect. They are getting degrees just to have a "degree"...THEN they start making career plans...if then. And we need to return to honoring and respecting those who elect to learn a trade. HAve you had to pay a mechanic or a plumber lately...if you can find one who knows what they are doing???

So, how do we explain the millions of kids who go through the public schools and still manage to turn out OK? I can think of four fine examples...myself, my wife and two sons. When you talk of public schools as being a bad environment...that's my family you're talking about.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/TenWays/Story?id=3585399&page=1

To paraphrase, I remember when "common sense was a common virtue". They don''t teach it in school any more. I once had a discussion with my eldest son when he was despondent over his "mediocre" grades in middle and high school. He was a B-C student. I explained to him that I raised him to be self sufficient and well rounded, and with a modicum of common sense...he was a Varsity athlete, a Scout, active in church, and an all around good person...in fact, his senior year, he was voted "best all around" by his peers. To my knowledge, there were no drugs, booze or tobacco. I told him about the kids I went to school with who had 4.0 averages (that was the best you could get in those days), but couldn''t DO squat outside of the classroom. They knew how to study and do well on tests. That was it. One committed suicide shortly after high school. Another was accepted at all 3 service academies, but in an act of rebellion, enlisted as an E-1 instead. My kid only made it to Star, but at age 28, has his degree and is a partner in his own restaurant (and getting rave reviews), managing a staff of more than 50 people. He has a wisdom beyond his years (and schooling), and that''s what I was shooting for. Nobody really cares now what his GPA was. It''s the results that matter. As my dad (a retired Navy enlisted man) used to tell me..."don''t let all that fancy schooling interfere with your education."

Go to the BSA website and follow the links... www.scouting.org If you sign up, you will be given satellite images of the search area to inspect for signs of wreckage. If you see something, you flag the image and the search coordinators are notified. Pretty cool. Just got my latest issue of Eagletter yesterday, the national magazine of NESA. Inside the front cover was a letter from Steve, the incoming President of NESA. Obviously printed before he went missing.

Just checked out www.callingpost.com ...didn''t even know it existed. What a great idea! Thanks for the info...

Just to clarify, I meant to split the whole pack ... not just the new recruits. The challenge is to find a new CO, CM and CC. But you want each pack to end up with Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webs...if possible. Bigger is not better, believe me. Been there.

Yup...the cup will burn down to the water level then stop. They think it''s magic!

They own the unit AND the money. Be careful that they don''t decide that they need new choir robes or something. Don''t you need a troop trailer? The others are correct, you don''t need to be at zero at the end of the year, but you should shoot for some modest "reserve" to be carried over. I know that all councils want you to sell a million units of popcorn every year, but the truth is, most units don''t need that much money. Your unit budget plan should reflect anticipated income and outgo, with the reserve left over for emergencies. If you are fundraising for a special thing (new tents, trip to Sea Base, etc), I would set up a special account kept separate from operating expenses.

Most cured hams are "pre-cooked", meaning heat and serve. The watermelon would provide a novel way of heating the ham directly on the coals while not drying it out or burning it. Sounds cool! I also like to wow the Tenderfeet by boiling water (or poaching an egg or cooking a sausage ball) in an orange peel...directly on the fire.

I also noted that many of the trails listed on the NTHA web site are BSA or GSUSA historic trails. Why not just get the BSA medal and patch and be done with it? If there is a potential trail in your area, it would make a fine Eagle project (I think) to develop it and the requirements for an award. Also, as was stated before, the only non-BSA awards authorized for uniform wear are the religious medals/square knots.

My own sons are 29 and 24 and no longer registered. I have been in scouting since 1964, with a few years off for college and waiting for my first born to become Cub age. I can''t imagine NOT being in Scouting, but the time is coming ... my two compadres (SM and ASM) are in the same boat, and we are ready to give it up. Recruiting has become fruitless, and the current crop of parents, while nice and very appreciative, show no inclination to take over the helm. The most they will do is show up for meetings, sit in the back of the room, and provide transportation when asked. One is an Eagle, but very shy and quiet, and the others are freshly retired military who are busy going to school and transitioning to new careers (that''s the inherent problem of retiring when your kids are still in middle school!). We will be losing one next summer to a military transfer, then we will be down to five. So, when the time comes, which will be when the current crop either Eagles or ages out, we will throw in the towel, because you reach a point where you (and my wife) say, "why am I still doing this?" (usually in the woods during a cold wet weekend, when the scout''s dads are home watching the game on their plasma TVs). It is not without mixed emotions, but I am nearing retirement from my govt job in a coupla years and also need to be making transition plans...at age 56, I won''t be able to sit at home carving neckerchief slides, since I still have a mortgage and bills to pay. Our CO doesn''t care either way.