scoutldr

You stole my rant from the WB thread! Here at work we are now into "Lean Six Sigma". The problem with these are they are never in place long enough to show results. When we get a new boss, we are off on another new fad. The other problem is that these are "methods" (like BSA)...not end products. Too often, I see these programs take on a life of their own, and people create jobs and think up things for you to do that take you away from doing your real job. Just like in the BSA, we need LESS admin overhead...not more. There is nothing wrong with having "key performance indicators" to show that what you are doing is successful. But they need to be measures of "outcomes", not "activity".

What size does your husband wear?

"In fact such tactics may well drive people further away from your camp (who needs that behavior!)." For the first time in our 15 year history, the troop I serve went OOC. We should have done it sooner. The boys were thrilled to see new sights, but it is sad for me to turn away from the camp I helped build and first attended as a Tenderfoot in 1966. But I refuse to be bullied by a "professional". We shouldn't let sentiment get in the way of providing a quality program to our units.

The CC serves at the pleasure of the Chartering Organization. Only they (COR) can remove him/her...(except of course unless their BSA membership is revoked for cause by the Scout Executive.) Sounds like another example of untrained leaders abusing power (or assuming power they don't have).

This is AMERICA!!! I have a RIGHT to look like a moron!

This was one of the very issues that caused me to step away from District committee membership...my last assignment was Camping Chair. Our SE would publicly berate our committee because we "were not ensuring that troops supported our Council camp". My attitude was, "if we have butts in cots, who cares what council they're from...besides, you surcharge out of council troops, so you should be glad they are there." Most troops in our COuncil rotate summer camps...there are about 6 within a 4-5 hour drive of our area. Most like the mountain areas because the weather is cooler and the mosquitoes are more tolerable. Just like any business, if a camp wants to attract customers, they have to offer something better and/or cheaper....or maybe just different.

We have one old gentleman in a neighboring troop who still proudly wears his green uniform resplendent with his original 1937 Jamboree patch which he earned as a 14 year old! Jambo registered participants/staff can wear the appropriate patch ABOVE the right shirt pocket (not on the pocket). If you went to more than one Jambo, choose the one you like best, but only wear one. Those who merely visited a Jambo are not eligible to wear the patch.

Congratulations, Grunc!

Are the expectations made clear when people run for office, i.e., that they now have an additional monthly meeting to attend? If so, and they are not fulfilling that part of their "cheerful service", then I would let the Chapter Advisors know, so perhaps a little "advising" can take place. In my experience, the OA needs to be revamped and revitalized. We generally have less than 20% of members who are truly "active" in the OA. Most complete the Ordeal, sew on the flap, and you never see them again. So when it comes time for chapter elections, the same 10-20 scouts are in the candidate pool, because they are the ones who bother to show up.

Welcome to the forums, Ma! You don't state what your role in the Pack is, so I assume you are a parent and not a registered leader (not that that's a bad thing)... To answer your last question first, the CC and CM are selected and approved by the Charterering Organization (CO). If there are volunteers for the position, the committee can suggest them, but the ultimate decision is the CO's. The first thing in your post that stands out to me is "we were switched to a different pack". That, to me, should not have happened and is the root of your displeasure. You and your son selected a Pack to join, based on criteria that were important to you. That's the way it should work. No one has the authority to decide you belong in a different Pack against your wishes. My suggestion at this point...unless you are willing to pony up and become a trained, registered leader and try to change things from within (a process that may well take your entire Cubbing career!), you should just go back to the Pack where you thought you could be happy. If your son is the only Wolf, then so be it...they need to deal with it and make it work. As the dad of sons who are now 29 and 25, I can tell you that your son is only a Cub for a blink of an eye (it seems like yesterday!)...don't waste the time being unhappy. There are no "do overs"... Good luck...and forgive me if I made incorrect assumptions.

Just a minor detail...the SM does not decide how troop funds are spent. That's a Troop Committee function. If the PLC has presented their plan to the Committee and they have agreed to support it, the SM then has two choices...go on the trip or stay home.

So, it begs the question, how is the program financed? Den leaders are not expected to pay out of pocket for den materials. Normally, a pack will collect annual dues which pays for registration fees, Boys' Life, badges, Blue and Gold banquet, etc. Some packs will give each den leader an "allowance" for den materials (turn in receipts and get reimbursed up to a predetermined limit), or the DL collects weekly dues to finance the den. A dollar a week is common. If your Pack's policy is not to collect dues, I would ask the Cubmaster how you're supposed to conduct your den activities.

How about just telling us what the real issue is? As stated, the chartering organization (CO) owns the troop and the equipment/money. If something has happened to the equipment, the COR should express their concerns to the Committee Chair (CC). The troop committee is responsible for the business side of the operation of the troop, whereas the SM and ASMs are responsible for training the youth to run the troop. So, unless the SM has committed theft or gross negligence, I would say he/she is no more liable than any other registered leader. if equipment has been lost/damaged in the normal course of use, that's just the cost of doing business (within reason, of course).

Yes, however if the Scouting for Food was a scheduled district or Council event, the OA should not be scheduling conflicting activities.

NEPHI, Utah (AP) -- A group of Boy Scouts and hikers had to be airlifted from a canyon as a wildfire swept through a campground and destroyed a nearby motel, authorities said Friday. The fire started Thursday at a campground in Salt Creek Canyon, 85 miles south of Salt Lake City, the U.S. Forest Service said Friday. By Friday, 20 square miles, more than 13,000 acres, had burned. All campgrounds and cabins were evacuated along the Nebo Loop, a scenic road in Uinta National Forest, and 18 Scouts and hikers were rescued Thursday from Nephi Canyon. "They'd had to get up in some real rough, rocky area to get away from the fire, so it could have been bad. But with quick work by the helicopters, they were able to get out," said Bert Hart, a spokesman at the U.S. Bureau of Land Management. The cause was under investigation, but there was a report of a car shooting sparks from the brakes, Uinta National Forest spokeswoman Loyal Clark said. Utah's weather was little help to firefighters; forecasters called for another day of 100 degrees or more throughout the state. The nation's firefighting preparedness moved to its highest level this week because of bone-dry conditions in the West and the number of fires. More moderate weather Thursday helped firefighters contain 13 large fires burning in the West, and others are expected to be contained in coming days, according to the National Interagency Fire Center. Almost half the 72 large fires burning nationally are in Nevada and Idaho. Two tiny towns on the states' shared border were evacuated Thursday. The 40 or so residents of Jarbidge, Nev., were ordered to leave because of fears that a nearby 195-square-mile fire could spill into the steep, narrow canyon where the town is located. A 280-square-mile wildfire crept within a mile of Murphy Hot Springs, Idaho, on Friday, but so far none of the town's 50 homes has burned, fire managers said. Firefighters started sprinklers in the yards nearest the fire, said Brock Astle with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management. The mandatory evacuation order imposed Thursday won't be lifted until at least Friday evening, the sheriff's office said. Regular work schedules resumed Friday at the Idaho National Laboratory where more than 700 workers had been asked to stay home the previous day because of a wildfire. No facilities at the nuclear research site were in danger. Near Reno, Nev., firefighters were getting a handle on a 4-square-mile wildfire that had threatened hundreds of homes on the edge of town. It was 34 percent contained and some of the more than 700 firefighters assigned to the fire were being sent to battle other blazes. Firefighters made progress on a large wildfire in Los Padres National Forest near California's central coast, and an evacuation order for about 50 homes was lifted Friday. In southwestern Utah, a group of fires that began in Zion National Park spilled into neighboring land. Evacuations were ordered and some structures were threatened, although numbers were not immediately available. The fires have burned 8,000 acres, or 12.5 square miles. ---

Sorry, OGE. "General" is a military term...as in "4 star". Actually, so is "uniform". How about "raiment"? (Where have I heard that word before?). Or "togs"? Or "threads". Why are they called "uniform" when there are so many options? Hmmmm?

"It's the district's responsibility to put together the board." Maybe in your council. In my council, the unit CC schedules the boards, then asks for a District rep to be present. The district advancement chair has a pool of people to call, and he sees who's available for that night. "I don't know who to believe anymore.................. " EBOR is one of those procedures that vary among Councils and maybe even among districts and units. If you are confused, ask your District Advancement Chair what the process is for your District. He is your definitive resource...not us.

Eagle Courts of Honor are usually planned by the Scouts and their parents, with troop assistance if requested. PS: Congratulations!(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

I'll admit, Gonz, I have heard of the Hawthorne Effect, but had to go to Wiki to refresh my memory. I think this one fits: Study 1d: This was conducted on two women only. Their production stayed constant under widely varying light levels. It was found that if the experimenter said bright was good, they said they preferred the light; the brighter they believed it to be, the more they liked it. The same was true when he said dimmer was good. If they were deceived about a change, they said they preferred it. Researchers concluded that their preference on lighting level was completely subjective - if they were told it was good, they believed it was good and preferred it, and vice versa.

In all the EBORs that I've sat as the District Rep, I can't remember a single time when we "interviewed" the SM. That would be highly unusual. The SM escorts the candidate into the room and introduces him to the board. Then the SM either leaves the room, or sits quietly in the corner...at the Scout's discretion.

I should have said, in answer to Hops' original question...the stated purpose of the BSA Lifefguard program is to train unit Scouts and Scouters to conduct their own unit level aquatics activities safely (in accordance with the G2SS, Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat). That's it in a nutshell.

With all due respect to those who work hard to put on a course, here at work over the past 20 years, I've suffered through Peters, Deming, Blanchard, Covey, Theory X, Theory Y, Kaizen, Cheese, and now "Lean Six Sigma", but they pay ME to do it. I don't see how it has affected our product one iota (since we're not a manufacturing company). Enough already. I suspect many of my middle manager/Scouter buds feel the same way.

I think the standards are fine...if enforced and taught properly. (I am a BSA Lifeguard Counsellor). Regarding the BSA/ARC agreement, see http://www.redcross-pdx.org/services/badge_day/BSA_National_AP_Agreement.pdf

In my case, the cost is off-putting. Units around here are on the small size and do not pay for WB, to my knowledge. So, just having spent over $1000 and a week of vacation time for the annual family "vacation", next week back at work and then another week of vacation time and $500 (camp fees, gas, and annual old codger physical) for summer camp. A third week off and $250 for WB just ain't in the cards.

There is a reciprocity agreement between the ARC and BSA. Check with your local Red Cross Water Safety Programs office. One of our DEs was working on the local agreement when he got transferred, and I don't know what the status is.