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I want to backpedal a bit on what I said earlier. If you want to care about the rules, you have to work in your district. Ask your DE if registering the mom as a merit-badge counsel is a good long term way to deal with this. Let's face it, if this patrol is any good, they'll want to meet often, and you want to be sure you encourage that to the best of your fellow adults' ability. But to make this work in the traditional way, you all have to figure out how you can be present, but invisible as often as the boys will need to gather.

I enjoyed when one anchorwoman talked about always wanting to earn Eagle, and they joked maybe it's not too late ... at least to help another girl along.

Welcome @MrsEBK, and thanks in advance for all you'll do for the youth!

Define "work correctly." I consider working correctly to be fulfilling vision of the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates. So under today's strictures, to work correctly, a patrol would have a non-BSA meeting absent adults, develop a plan for an overnight camp-out, have a caring adult (sometimes called an SM) review the plan, improve the plan until it's approved, implement the plan (which, given two registered adults of the desired sexes would be a BSA campout, otherwise not), return and meet with other patrols (sometimes called a troop meeting), and report results. Given available adults this may count for rank advancement, otherwise it fulfills aforementioned vision. BSA considers working correctly to be keeping lawyers at bay while maintaining robust professional staff. So there, you would spend the cost of a couple of scouts' weekend camping to register your mom, only meet/camp/hike when requisite adults are available. This will result in 10% or more of your scouts being recognized with Eagle in any given year, at the cost of 40% of your scouts who could care less about such things and care more about pursuing a different vision of working correctly. With or without you BSA, what will it be?

BSA dragged venturing down by a thousand cuts. The worst being last years' youth protection mandates. What group of 14-20 year old co-eds would want to be dependent on the presence of two adults for every meeting and activity? Before that, the distinction between adult and youth participants put an effective wedge between members of a crews with a wide age span. Before that, the jump in registration fees exceeded the average cost of a weekend in the woods on borrowed gear. For late teens, it is now easier to fulfill the vision of a pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates --- without the BSA.

You do you, @mashmaster, and be prepared to give an honest testimony to scouters in your district about how you enjoyed (or didn't, if that's the case) working with these particular youth.

Like I said to my kids ... go out there, have fun ... be sure to talk to strangers!!!! I wasn't that involved with O/A, but as I became an older teen I did a good bit of scouting stuff on my own ... that is, with guys who weren't in my troop. It's kind of natural ... expanding your circle of friends like that. It gets you ready for college or military life. Son #1 ... he did scouting with the guys and girls in his troop/crew (and really they were scouts/venturers from his school) or not at all. And, they were good kids mostly, and that worked out well for him. So, I can respect that feeling of "If I got good people who are building me up, I'm sticking with them." But Daughter and Son #2 really needed to branch out. So, they connected with many scouts who weren't in their neighborhood (or town, county, state ...). They still kept their school friends, but for scouting to work for them, they had spend time away from their unit. So, I can respect that feeling of "Maybe I should find more good people to build me up." So, I'd encourage you to set aside a weekend or two for events where you're the only one from your troop. Keep an open mind. If it suit for you, don't be discouraged. You'll still have your troop. But odds are you'll enjoy branching out. Rumor has it that scouts are friendly.

Thanks for the update. A few posts here have suggestions of how to get beyond harmony and reach synergy. I'm thinking bb range, fishing contests, and safety training for the cubs. Larger bore rifles and skeet shooting for the scouts. Archery for all. And ... opportunities for Cooking and Public Health MB's for the Eagle-bound boys. For the club, I'm thinking more contact with scouting parents and a chance to recruit a mom/dad/youth who would make a great competitive shooter. So, stay optimistic and let us know how it turns out.

So, I got in my walk to the coffee shop and the owner was in. He suddenly remembered that his daughter was pestering him to deliver my cookie order. She makes great pains to take my order when she's working the counter because I once made it quite clear that I don't buy from parents, nor do I read posters. I have a door, and a phone, and ears tuned to assertive scouts. Anyway, I stashed my boxes in my briefcase and headed off to work. We had a couple work-studys in the office and they are more than happy to help me and my colleagues work through these ... starting with the thin mints. Of course, modern students being up on current events they quickly mentioned their admiration for the girls who set up a table near a dispensary. Yeah, whatever. Old news. Then, when I next looked at the box. I found .. Oops ... upside down logo of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil. I'm going to leaf it at that.

It sounds like fun, if the adults and cubs support it. It could be a great way to introduce yourself to the community. There is a unit fundraiser application that you should fill out and send to your council. Your district executive should help you with that.

Indoor work can be very helpful. That's how, as an adult, I really got my head around sighting. At our local sportsman's club, the scouts get most of the safety lecture in a classroom setting. That gives the boys a chance to practice their stance without all of the hub-bub of the range. Although we don't teach the merit badge at a meeting, our SM gives an indoor presentation about once a year, showing the boys a variety of firearms in his collection. It's very well received, and we believe it helps the scouts wisely handle firearms and enjoy their time when they finally get to a range.

Ask your district commissioner. Ours shares the numbers with us. Haven't seen any from this recharter.

Son #1's buddy got to 1st Class ahead of the rest of that class. He asked to not be put on the ballot. I can't remember if it was his 2nd or 3rd summer camp. (We never pushed 1st class, 1st year. Most of our scouts took at least two years to get there.) Anyway, he knew that year was not the right time for him, and the next year he was willing to go with the rest of the boys. As I mentioned earlier, I'm ambivalent about blanket age restrictions for O/A. An SM may have his reasons. But, having such a rule (unwritten or otherwise) does not absolve the SM from a quick conference with each 1st class scout individually before the election. And, it is on the blind-sided 1st class scout to request it after the election. Adult association ... it's a method for a reason.

Go back a generation or two further, and you will find girls were more outdoor oriented. (It was GS grandmas who encouraged me to get my Crew rolling.) Go to other cultures, and we may find girls are very outdoor oriented ... sometimes more than boys. That doesn't mean there is no role differentiation. For example, girls in rural Africa carry the wood and build the fires -- while boys learn to throw rocks at poisonous snakes. What we find is that the GS/USA adopted a program that had female baby boomers adapting to the conveniences of modern technology. The outdoors became optional. This was passed on to daughters. Being optional, it could no longer be a guaranteed method in every unit. When BSA did something like that in the 70s, scouters pushed back, and we avoided the abandonment of the concept of a first class scout. Meanwhile, the mall girl/arcade boy culture set in, and many youth who dared the wilderness felt a grim culture shock, but this impacted more girls than boys. My conclusion: the sex-specific preference for the outdoors method is purely cultural. And (where I disagree with @Eagledad), sex segregation at a national level has done more harm than good. There are times when boys and girls should be camping together and times when they should be at a distance, and that can be better managed at a unit level. Unless BSA concedes to fully coed troops, I would be surprised if we get a girl for every 5 boys.

@WAKWIB, I've been a trustworthy contributor (well, at least a contributor ), and have opposed @SSScout's motion. Hashing out how we help American boys mature in their faith is the program for some of us. @RememberSchiff's tagging is a good suggestion. We should use that more often.

I suspect a few are venturers who really were into awards and recognition, but I was actually surprised at the variety of interest. I guess it varies by region. In my council last year, no venturers were interested. But some younger girls were. There is definitely a mix across the age ranges. With respect to GS/USA, the girls in Scouts BSA are sort of misfits. The GS pros are no slouches, they know what suits the majority of girls who would commit years to an organization (and their parents). The whole girls-outdoors-monthly thing is a niche market to them.

Many scouts don't even wear a neckerchief. I don't think any who I know turn their collars under. I prefer 4-6 rolls, tight ... with a woggle (not the standard issue metal facsimile) or friendship knot.

Blanket policies and by-laws will come back to bite an SM the year an exceptional 11 year old is in the troop. The older boys will want to vote the kid in and will be really upset that he's not on the ballot. Maybe these are exceptional 11 year olds? Each of my kids thought they were exceptional soccer players, when the coach didn't give them playing time, I told them, "Your team, not mine. Talk to the coach about what you need to do to make the cut." If it matters to a scout, he should arrange a scoutmaster conference to discuss the issue. He can then talk about what skills he is missing that SM thinks would keep him from being an arrowman. I do think the SM should have had a quick conference with each boy who wasn't going to be on the ballot. But since that didn't happen, it's on the boys to take the initiative to have that conversation after the fact.

@FGarvin, welcome to the forums. I love to hear about scouts getting out there. The short answer: yes, the SM can decide that scouts who've only been in the troop for a year aren't ready for this honor. I can think of several reasons: These scouts might not really be demonstrating 1st class skills consistently, The SM sees a maturity issue. He heard back from the lodge about a previous batch of 1st years (his or some other troop's) not really prepared for their ordeal. The SM feels that their might be a bullying problem at the ordeal. I find it interesting that the parents are involved in this at all. Are these boys really upset about having to wait until the next election?

I still remember my 1st grade experience of getting spanked for talking in class because I tried to shush another trouble-making boy (specifically because he was always getting in trouble). The humiliation of being implicated along with the troublemaker was far worse than the spanking. We kept our distance after that. They have more exquisitely humiliating punishments these days (time outs, denial of privileges, ..., the moral equivalent of solitary confinement). Whatever the negative reinforcement you all use. Be sure that all malefactors (not just the instigator) bear the brunt.

I found it very handy when secretaries posted minutes of committee meetings online. Put them up as "pending approval" ASAP after a meeting. That way, if you missed something, someone can point it, out and you can correct the minutes and have them "approved" at the next meeting. If you haven't studied parliamentary procedure about what goes into good meeting minutes, you should look it up. It's actually easier than most people think. A group needs an outline of what was decided, not a blow-by-blow of everything that was discussed.

I can respect the fear of forced conversion. One scouter who I was close to had the same challenge. (He and his Jewish grandson were in a Catholic CO). The CO insisted that if the boys were out on a Sunday, the troop had to stop at a nearby parish for mass. He and his grandson spent a lot of time on the stoops of country chapels. I'm not sure it's something I'd look for in a troop, but they were a great bunch of boys and a really nice SM. I think this arrangement worked because his CO was very up front about expectations, yet still welcoming to my friend's customs which were, in part, his push-back against imperial Christianity -- something that, for him, was very important to teach his grandson and, for the other parents, wound up being very helpful in helping their boys better understand diversity. Should the COR have talked to my friend (who was a committee member) before declaring expectations? Probably. But these folks found that happy medium without trying to parse BSA literature for some step-by-step "how-to." It's the same deal with @Cubmaster Pete's CO, except there's some money, not doctrine, on the table. That's why I suggested that his units should turn down the annual contribution from the CO and see what they can do towards having a per-event-served donation. To me it just seems easiest to say to the CO that you'll get back to them with a list of months that will absolutly will not work after you make a good-faith effort to sign up volunteers.

@shortridge, we need to concede that the DRP is intentionally imprecise. "and the organization or group with which the member is connected" is a buzzphrase "not BSA national." If a member [of BSA] walks into the church/mosque/temple/firehouse/club that sponsors that unit, he is de-facto connected to that church/mosque/temple/firehouse/club. Now there is a culturally appropriate way that one house of worship should treat people who are also connected to another house. But, BSA basically says "we're staying out of that discourse (unless the people are atheists).

Welcome! And I'd like to pass along thanks for all you'll do for our youth.

It's pretty obvious to me that the damage was done before film started rolling. But then, the roof of our council camp's 20 year old dining hall collapsed under similar circumstances several years back.