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Crossover dog-and-pony shows are nice, but what really will be net positives for O/A? I think most will involve broader troop issues ... Allow the use of sash-racks. (I.e., everyone stop griping at scouts folding sashes over their belts.) Make sure 1st Class means skill mastery. Only hold elections at camp. Usually by day 2 the younger scouts can pick the roses from the thorns. Do serious Indian Lore at camp. That includes inviting Native Americans to join the camp staff. Leverage the opening to female ordeals to talk about women, culture, and family. Look for your troop's O/A rep at roundtable (or wherever your chapter meets). If he's not there, let him know your troop isn't getting the representation it deserves.

That's new. Thanks T-Bird! There you have it, Mash. Loophole closed.

Timing oneself is a good idea. But, if many of the new scouts are 16 year old venturers, camp staff, or girl scouts, I would suggest that "kid factor" will be less than 1. They are very efficient at making sure everyone is on the same page. Keep in mind that "Group Identity" is a method of venturing. Most folks relate that to uniforming. But in application it comes down to making sure everyone knows the ideals and by-laws of the group. As time goes on, and older scouts get busy doing other things, and younger scouts have more interest adventure and fellowship than advancement, then you get that lag that we normally see in most crossovers.

Is that distinction fading? Or is one arm of the organization not aware of the other? Continue the discussion here:

I do agree with you that the SM went overboard on the "this is how it's gonna be" line. With any sudden influx of members (like I said, I've been in the middle of three) a little humility goes a long way. He would have been better to admit, "We're gonna have to flex, this is our plan A, we think it will work, but we're open to improvement." As to the funds. When I was Advising my crew, I used separate accounts because there were some wannabe watchdogs who feared troop funds being drained. That kept the peace, but towards the end, the troop could have used those crew surpluses. Not the other way around. So, it took a while to get everyone settled on writing them the check that closed the crew account. Chances are if these new scouts are all they're cracked up to be, they'll be putting in their share of time at the sales tables -- especially if some of the parents are wary to join that fundraiser. I suspect these girls are going to need a little autonomy to get down the advancement trail like they want. So, for that reason alone, I'd have them use their own bank account. But, even there, the troop treasurer may have preferred to operate in a consolidated fashion at least for now.

So, you think I should take the time to let every parent know that if there were girls interested in starting a unit, the CO would let them do it under the same roof as ours? Even if there aren't any such girls? Isn't that a form of stirring up hype, where poor @mashmaster want's it to settle down? Should I also let them know that we'd take on boys from outside our district if they'd ask? If immigrants/refugees settled here, we'd welcome their boys? That we'll start a crew up again as soon as a few of the boys and their girlfreinds ask? What other hypotheticals should I disclose? And then, if I were a parent, what would I do with that information? Go find a troop who's CO solemnly swears they won't let membership scenario X happen - at least until my kid ages out? Does beascout have a special color pin for units like that? In the past year, the only scheme of mine that I made sure everyone knew about was World Scout Jamboree ... because 1) I thought it was cool, 2) I wanted to make sure interested scouts didn't miss out, 3) I made a solid commitment and wanted fellow scouters (both Advisors and SM's) know that my leadership time would be spread a little thin for a while. For anything else where only the 1st criteria was met, you would have had to be around a campfire with me to hear about it.

We've had similar blind-sides. When the SM invited a half-dozen boys from outside the school district joined our troop, we eventually had to deal with splits and later re-mergers. Then, when our troop merged, there was a "deal" on the table that the merged troop would move to the older CO. The problem was that the SM (from the newer troop) had a beef with that COR. So it didn't happen. The older boys (most of whom were in the older CO) basically had to suck it up. Some of the parents of older boys were bothered, and it took the leadership of the older troop to settle them down. This happened in a matter of weeks. Both scenarios felt like an arranged marriage (which actually had more good moments than bad, from my perspective). Throughout both, we were unapologetic to the older scouts. Mentoring this next generation cheerfully was on them. Part of life is adapting to new situations. And little things like who's number was official was not something to cry over. I agree that the adult leadership requirements make this linked troop model tough to implement. But, I can't imagine that changing an SM's resolve. From their perspective they are teaching a scout to be courteous. When a half dozen youth show up at your door wanting to learn how to hike and camp independently with their mates, you do everything (not the bare minimum) to help them. Should the troop have given parents the "heads up" that they would be open to a girls unit sharing facilities and equipment? Maybe. But if they did and that those half dozen girls didn't materialize (as happened in my case), that would have been a lot of drama over a hypothetical.

I think so. I said nothing disparaging of Mom's opinion of these new scouts taking up meeting space. But, I am wondering how else she would expect things to happen. It's important for me to know because I'm one of the guys who shows up with the next new program everywhere I go. (Believe it or not, scouting isn't the only organization that wants to use a sponsor's space and generates hype.) So, what parents expect when it comes to organizational pivots like this is good to know. With regards to my experience with Scouts BSA, I floated the concept by our COR and IH (and a separate COR as well) last year to see what they thought about it. I then discretely asked key parents in our community about their interest. Why? Because I didn't want to 1) get parents talking about pure speculation, and 2) get kid's hopes up before having them dashed. There was no interest. So I put it on the back burner. But, if something were to come together, it would probably only gone public about a month before launch. That's still the case. If six girls walk up to my door and want to hike and camp independently with their mates, I'm probably gonna roll with that and register a charter ASAP. Most parents won't know until they see them around the CO.

Not the same at all. The boys from across the tracks were far more disruptive to our troop and crew (in good and bad ways) than the girls from "our side."

@Mom2Scout, welcome to the forums! What makes you think the CO/SMs should ask the parents? I mean, if a half dozen boys from the next neighborhood over wanted to join the troop all of a sudden, that could change the troop dynamic. Would you expect them to discuss that with the parents? Or, would you expect them to bring the boys on board, then adjust leadership as necessary?

Speaking of "up until the 70s" wishful thinking ... especially when it comes to professionals who never went through the program ... a lot of this stress would be relieved with the removal of agism. Not getting those skills down? No worries, come back as an ASM and SM and knock out those Star/Life/Eagle requirements that you weren't able to complete as a kid. Your PhD not impressing boots-on-the ground scouters? No worries, spend a year serving a unit and become the first class scout you were always meant to be. Take the lid off the pressure cooker, then we can celebrate (instead of look askance at) the 12 year old who nails down those skills and racks up bling!

@tpolly, welcome to the forums and thanks in advance for all you'll do for the youth! Personally, I think staying away is a dumb idea. I landed in camp with Son #1 and spent a lot of time fishing, meeting staff, getting to know our troop leadership, taking any available adult training, landing a bullseye when the archery range was free, hiking, training for the mile swim, helping some other troops' first years learn to swim, fishing. I would line up at the payphone (!) to chat with Mrs. Q every other day or so, and she would ask how the boy was and I would say, "I saw him moving, looked like he had a smile under the dirt on his face. ... You should see the bass in this lake! ..." It helped that I was an ASM when I turned 18, a decade earlier, so I kinda knew the drill. Regardless, if you are interested in being an ASM, you need to get training. And the best training you can get is fishing with meeting leaders from other troops and enjoying afternoon naps consecutive days.

So, you're a teacher. If a student opens the book, during class, finds the answer to your question, and rattles it off right there, does he/she know the material? Can you strike that question off of your next quiz because the student answered it and the class was present to hear it? So, yeah ... a kid will need to demonstrate a skill more than once, with confidence, every time. For most, that takes a week. For some, that can take a while. I am asking scouts to tie their knots, now, next week, and two months from now. I'm asking them to be able to swim in a strong manner ASAP, the week after, and the month after. My PL's need to sign off when they are confident that that boy can be counted on for that skill. On some level, First Class is more important than Eagle. I want all my scouts to be first class ... all the time.

Welcome to the forums @NickWeaver! Here's an old-school strategy: ask your classmates if they or anybody they know is in boy scouts or venturing. Then talk to those friends (or friends of friends, or enemies of friends, whatever) about when their troop/crew meets. Obviously if you happen to be someplace where you see a troop doing a service project or other activity, go up and ask them for info. Talking to strangers ... almost as fun as the internet, twice as rewarding.

Well, if ASAP is what you need. You could create tags for your topics. Say, "Start-up", "Scouts BSA", "Girls", and "Troop". File under open program, council relations, or whatever. Most of what you all have discussed so far applies to boys' troops too. The reason why I suggest this is that somewhere there is a venturing forum that us crew advisors rarely use. Why? Because most of what we really need to know is on the other forums. I mean, venturing is special, but not that special.

Keep the BS out of the BSA, maximize smiles. The important thing is to make sure youth protection minimums are maintained. Should be straightforward since you have den moms.

It's nice to know that you all in your dress whites have the same problems as us lowly tan-shirts.

All I can say, is that I studied my knots at home then tied them for my PL at the next campout (not even the next meeting, those were for planning activities, reflecting on past activities or the nation's history, and playing pool, ping pong, or air hockey). The exception was the taught line hitch that I hadn't figured out, and the SM showed me how and set me to retying all of the guy lines around my tent. By the end of the day, my PL signed off. Really, a proper simulation is for the scout to go home and practice tying the knot in the shower with the lights off. That prepares her for her first rainy night insertion with just a tarp and parachord!

Often times, the worst-case scenarios trickle up to the interweb, and there's that. On average, when scouts are really enthusiastic about advancing, We tell them, "Show us you're all that." They pull together ways to sharpen, then prove, their skills. We give them due recognition. From time to time, you get SMs who are frustrated that, in this age of streamlined products like velcro, their Star scouts forget bowlines (or how to build patrol spirit, or show up to a shakedown ready to camp, or whatever). Other times, you get SMs who interpret "no adding" to mean "once-and-done", as in the kid grabs his book, crams, and that night can rattle off safe swim defense. Nay! It's perfectly within the intent of the Guide to Advancement to have a boy learn a skill one week and wait until he shows he can do it the next week before signing off.

My working assumption is "judge not lest ye be judged." Sorry, I did not write the rules. The troop could be like @shortridge's. On the ball, chock full of 1st class scouts (concept, not the patch), and wanting to get duly recognized for their hard work on day 1 so their next meeting is about who's gonna cook the winning D/O desert at spring camporee. Or it could be like the obsessed-with-advancement cases @Ranman328 and @Eagledad and I have seen too many of. How many is too many? One in the district. Or, worse, in your family. It really is sad to see the promise of scouting robbed from teenage nephews by leaders with a wrong vision of troop life. All I have to say to that is thank God for the good folks in TL/USA. With regard to Scouts BSA for girls, I'm not seeing a problem based on the pictures I've seen. Most of their day 1 uniforms don't have rank patches on them. With regard to this particular troop (or if you are a district commissioner hearing of any such troop in your district). Nothing can be known for sure until the UC gets boots on the ground. That might include going on the troop's next camp out. I've had more fun on camp outs simply tossing a line to a leader (adult or youth) and asking, "Hey, could you tie off the your end to yonder tree with a timber hitch?" FWIW, for the past few years, I've had a hard time getting our scouts to free up time to check out an orienteering club. I know why they don't want to do it. 1) Events are on Sundays. 2) The palpable fear of failure among the boys of upper rank. My only hope is to get one troop to throw down a challenge to ours. The boots-on-the-ground approach is not easy. But, I believe it is more rewarding.

Did UC do his/her job visit the troop and meet some of the scouts? Are they acting like they know the scout law, what a patrol is, etc ...? Then they earned the rank. Period. Make sure they know of all of the opportunities the district/council has to offer. Are they acting like they are being pushed around by their leaders/parents and completely clueless about how to order themselves? Then the UC and the unit key three need a sit down to focus on delivering the promise of scouting, not just badges, to these girls. As to how, if a couple of the girls are venturers or former camp staff, they will know how to move things along. It's likely that they trained the girls well in the previous months, day 1 was electing an SPL/PL, reciting the material they already knew, signing off ranks, and scheduling SMCs. Easy enough starting midnight Thursday, and meeting for breakfast before school on Friday. (Venturers have done stranger things.) Proud SM or CC walks the paperwork to the scout shop, buys patches, done.

@John-in-KC, are you suggesting that it is that way, or you think it should be that way? @an_old_DC seems to be reporting (correct me if I'm wrong, AOD) that he was able to file advancement for MBs for some of his crew who never earned 1st class. Thinking from scoutshop's perspective, they don't have to check if a troop is ordering badges for a scouts who haven't earned first class. If among those thousands of advancement reports, there's an order for MB's from a crew, why would they build in the business logic? Especially since that logic is not spelled out in the GTA? In other words, there's no such thing as a "qualifying boy scout", so who would tell them that they have to check that an order is for "qualifying venturers" only?

Given the AI capabilities that the guys down the street from my office are putting into robots, we might soon need a different metaphor, but so long as the analogy stands ... Implied within obedience and loyalty is a certain sacrifice of autonomy. So, if in the last century, congress defined what is respectful behavior toward our nation's banner, then behaving otherwise is disobedient and disloyal unless congress says otherwise. Now, there may be cause to be disobedient and disloyal (e.g., one comes to the conclusion that under that banner, our nation has done more harm than good), but I don't think this scout thought that far ahead. The councilman (or one of the board); however, should know better. This is no prime time pageant bought and payed for by some federal agency. This is a meeting of local leaders who are in office because, under that banner, free and fair elections are in force. Under another flag, for example, a military officer favorable to governors appointed by a foreign regent could be in those council seats. The board members could have politely explained the difference to the young man. They evidently did not. Their opponents should hold them accountable in the next election.

I feel your pain. But the larger portion of the market wants sex segregation to be the law (or at least very strong suggestion) of the land.

If the pipes are in the right position, hang hooks and post with poles horizontal. Essentially, you are hanging the flags. (You could also, put loops on the poles to hang at an angle.)