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Appeal. The most significant question in your case is why didn't you hold a position with your troop (or crew, if you were in one)?

OG, How dare you propose that "Reference" be part of your teaching method! Don't you know that our boys are being taught that skill acquisition begins with someone explaining it to them? If it's any consolation, at the venturing level, the line is "research the following references ...", or "call this expert ..." (who might actually live down the street from the kid). You'd be surprised how many youth set aside pursuit of an award for because I hold them to that step! Now, I'm the first one to say I don't like the cost of the MB pamphlets. But, if the boy or his folks haven't made it an issue, then that's not the issue here. Complacency is. Stick to your guns. Most boys have never taken oral exams. (You know, like the ones in that show Room 222.) So this is a big step for them, maybe the first time they've done something like this. Encourage them that sometime in life, someone is going to need them to have read the manual before class -- be it college or job training.* Then, make an appointment for the next available time after the boy has read the book! *Heck, most everything I know about fishing was from reading magazines first then asking someone how to make it actually work.

I think one of the challenges is to show parents that they have opportunity to offer something truly unique. It's not that sweeping floors is bad, but what youth really need from adults is their knowledge and experience. I had a boy corner me at the last meeting wanting to discuss Eagle projects at length. If I was busy doing what any boy could do, I would not have been available to him to serve as the sounding board he needed. Let those parents know they may be losing sight of where they may be really needed. Tell them that stepping back and observing helps a lot. One of my crew dads told me he would just sit back and observe the entire trip, by day two he had the boys out in the bay and was teaching them everything he knew about kayaking. His daughters weren't interested because they had "been there, done that", but those boys will be greatful forever. Now if that dad was preoccupied with lighting fires and sweeping tables, would he have found his niche? Also, teaching parents "with your permission Mr. SPL, may I...?" goes a long way.

The natural progression is to grow where folks tell you you fit in, and then settle where you figure you can serve the best. I found one challenge (more in Boy Scouts than cubs) was setting aside my vision of things from the troop I grew up in and adopting the vision of the troop my son lands in. That's a few years down the road for you, so just enjoy your children now and pitch in on whatever tasks are at hand. I would suggest that you get to know the Boy Scouts and Venturers in your community. (Some of them make good babysitters when they aren't on the trails!). You'll meet a few at Pack meetings and maybe cub camp. Look up their fundraiser was etc... Ask them what they like about their Troop/Crew, what they look forward to doing, etc ... If they were cubs, ask them what they liked best about their pack. Over time, this will give you a good idea of where you might want to serve.

E - You mean someone had been picking up for their cubs indoors? Wonder if DS's parent had been doing that all these years. There is no reason, starting at age 6, that cubs can't be responsible for clean-up at their den and pack meetings. That includes sweeping and mopping, if necessary. You might need parents to follow-up, and make sure things are polished. but clean-up is part of the activity (as I say to the Mrs. when she gardens 'till she drops and I'm roaming around the next day finding tools left out in the rain)! Of course I caught a couple of boys in my crew feeding my co-advisor the line that they didn't know how to slice green peppers. They actually got her to start "demonstrating"!!!

What dg98 said minus the troop van and adult leader training ... but we will reimburse SM or whoever pulls the trailer. We provide volunteer drivers instructions for getting reimbursement for fuel, but since most of us would be driving someplace on the weekend anyway, we don't bother. We also stock up on incidentals, but that usually comes from camping fees (which average $12).

Three years in and the BOR is acting as if it is untrained? There's more here than meets the eye! I think in this framework the UC should point out to the adults that a disagreement between SM and BOR of this magnitude indicates different philosophies that need to be hashed out. Then leave the room maybe leaving behind the date and time of the next training! The SM and CC and share their interpretations of the advancement guide without your intervention. Don't sweat the CoH. Not every award has to be handed out then. SM can encourage folks to offer a follow-up BOR sooner than scheduled, and the rank awarded at the following troop meeting.

Spaghetti Diner fundraiser.. brought in 1200 but the Troop funds got 180 while the scouts got over 1000.. *grins I had no idea they did this 'work hours' thing. I knew about ticket sales as that was mentioned plus that is how my son's troop did it too. The work hours was a whole new thing that wasn't mentioned until after the Spaghetti Dinner. I like the idea as it gives the scout money toward their summer camp but at the same time how does the Troop funds grow? It's like my troop has an evil twin! Except, we don't compute the hourly rate in advance. SM gives the committee a budget for the upcoming year and Treasurer estimates how much the general fund needs to maintain that budget with a "small cushion". After paying dinner expenses, ticket commission, and the general fund, we divide the remaining funds raised by total shifts worked and allocate to scout accounts.

These are the type of decisions that need to be balanced with the calorie needs of the adventure. A mile away from home without strenuous activity = lesson via tough love. A high adventure where carb+protien-loading could make the difference in completing that last strenuous mile = cruel and unusual.

If I were the SM, I'd like the UC meet with the committee and provide a crash course in BOR! Especially the 5 month thing. If the issue is an unkempt shed, do they really want to wait 5 months for it to get cleaned? If they want to stick to their guns, IMHO, they should provide two adults who are willing to assist the boy over the next few weekends.

If this is a first-time offense, have a scoutmaster conference with them and explain that Scouting is a place where people feel welcome and equal. If your SPL is mature, have him sit in on the discussion. Gently bring up the incident. Ask them if anyone did something like that to them when they were new to the troop. Apologize to them if that happened, but point out that this type of imitation is not flattering! Affirm that you have heard them promise to live up to the scout law, and one point of that law is "kind." Point out where you have seen them be kind in the life of the troop. Tell that you expect them to just as kind kind to new members. That means suppressing the desire to have fun by handing down a few "bad memories". You might also want to point out that it's not thrifty to use insect repellant as mace. (Using mace offensively is not particularly thrifty either!) Tell them you might understand how they would not have thought that this was a problem. But now that they know it is unacceptable, the "obedient" point of the law comes in to play, and you expect them to hold to that. Scouts that have a repeated problem with that point may be brought before the committee to determine if their lack of discipline merits suspension or loss of membership.

DS, Worse is I'm trying to do both the Committee Chair and Scoutmaster. Yep. That about sums it up. You need to split your personalities ... The SM-self needs to sit with the boys and work with them on formulating a list of equipment that they will need for the upcoming year. There are checklists in the handbook, etc ... You may want to use index cards or post-its so that they can prioritize and split things into personal/troop gear. Determine what on that list needs to be travel-ready and what might just need to be used for local events like your fundraiser. Make plans with the boys to have a Quatermaster's day that will end with a decent campfire and meal someplace near your meeting place. If they conclude they need less than a 3-ton trailer to move stuff around for this year. Report that to your CC-self. CC-self then talks to equipment chair thanking him for his hard work, and ask him to think about what will save more money: a 5year out-of-state registration for a trailer you might not haul until your troop triples in size, or a primer paint job with numbers stenciled by the boys while they work on painting merit badge. Ask him to pull the other parents together and discuss how important it is to for the troop to advertize themselves with a big trailer and how soon this trailer really needs to be roadworthy. You can be honest about how you're a little concerned about the ethics of the whole thing, and about making the boys more responsible stewards of their gear. But, the bigger picture is coaching the guy into bouncing these ideas off of the rest of the committee and CO so that everybody feels like they have an honest stake in the troop. Lets face it, you're going to half to find someone to replace CC-self soon, and this guy might be it! P.S. - EA's story about the unchained wood-chipper happened in my district. It got thrown off its hitch onto a minivan that was following just behind and downhill from it. The wife lost her entire family, and the driver lost his career and I think is serving time for negligence (as well as a lifetime of remorse).

Good luck! You have your daughter,that's a start. Spring is prime time for recruiting venturers. Does your council have a VOA? A word or two from other seasoned venturers would go a long way itoward inspiring your daughter and her friends.

total bafflement of where ideas come Actually, young George Washington acquired his land holdings by registering deeds with whatever colony was convenient -- and, no doubt least expensive -- to process the title. (E.g., a title in W.Pa. could be drawn up in the colony of Maine.)

I've seen our not-ready-for-prime-time boys bow out of the election or before the ordeal. I've seen one or two of the rest rise up to the ordeal and really get a lot out of the program. All of this played out as they still camped and hiked with the troop, so everyone (except the first-years) had some idea of what was at stake come the next election. So, I think a little lesson-learning did go on. I guess this process is acceptable to the O/A, so I never questioned the lack of formal feedback to non-candidates.

Let me make this simple: my UC has not darkened my crew's door since its inception. So where do I go for outside help (besides these forums )? I have certain seasoned advisors on speed-dial. (The advisor's advisors, if you will.) They all are leaders in their respective units. I'm pretty sure none of them have logged the amount of help they've given me, but other than that, I consider them my mentors. I'm not about to question the propriety of this. I just thank God that they took time out from managing their respective units to coach me along the way. 'nuff said

Following up on the other thread about youth leadership in multi-unit events ... Why don't you find out which troops/packs are meeting early this week, pay a visit to one or two, and ask the boys what they'd like to see in a gateway? One fun idea would be a "wood-shingle" sign-in. Have boys burn or paint 1/2 tongue depressor sticks with their name and unit number, glue velcro on the back of the round end and stick 'em to a felt board in a layered fashion. The rough flat end would hang down and form the roof. Invite the boy-scouts to come and decorate their own shingle. I bet you'll have quite a few of the older boys stopping by to give it a go! Pre-dip the sticks in light stain (food coloring maybe?) that corresponds to epaulets (so you can tell cubs from boys etc ....). They can double as buddy-tags if your event involves any activity that needs that sort of thing.

The National Council reserves the term "Jamboree" for National and International events. So local councils CAN'T call local events "jamboree" without National approval. But does national approve of some councils labeling their big events "Jamborees", or do councils proceed on a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" basis? In any case I'm proud to be part of an organization that caused Webster's to re-write their entry on this one.

IR, I think it was our lodge chief's idea to invite cubs. He was an exceptional youth leader. The challenge, of course, is finding those leaders every year, giving them an "iron in the fire" at every level in the council, and appropriately recognizing their commitment to scouting. Wouldn't it be cool, for example, to plan a Cub-O-Ree by getting a bunch of denners in the same room and asking them what they would like to see/do? Give them the right amount of ice-cream and candy-bars and I bet you couldn't write their ideas down fast enough!

DS, My situation is like yours. Best I can figure is make sure everyone who comes through the door is welcome and appreciated.

The original topic was about multi unit events -- some of which sound insanely cool! That leads me to ask the next question: Planning or implementation, youth led or adult led? Folks in Laurel Highlands Council are welcome to chime in and disagree, but from what I've seen: Venturing events: youth led with adult coaching where needed. If youth say "no", we don't do. Adults step up in terms of administration recruiting staff, etc ... at the pleasure of the VOA president. OA events: youth+adult. Lodge chief has a big influence here. Boy scout events: adult led. Period. Youth may or may not be staffing. However, the adults do seem to be getting feedback from their home units as they plan. combined programs: adult led. By force of majority, Venturing would have little say, but to my knowledge they are never asked for input. However, when crews manage to have their own event-within-the-event, they are welcome to use existing infrastructure to pull it off. How 'bout your council?

But if a troop elects a dud, or fails to elect a good candidate, to OA they never feel the results of their decision and so learn no lessons. I have seen this happen within the troop a couple of times. Did the "duds" pass their ordeal? Did they cause harm to the chapter?

Thanks, Joe, My bottom line: how well does it perform offline? Can you cache a collection of tiles (including ones with your markers, etc ...) to an iPad for later viewing? While offline, can you add markup (waypoints, pics, blogs)? Can you backup that collection when you get back online? If so, then I'll give it a trial run next weekend.

Where I am really struggling with this personally is that as a PARENT I am not supposed to have to deal with this, so I thought. This was the big difference between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts..."Son, it is now up to you to chart your own path and take responsibility for your own stuff." Yes, Brew, we want it to be the boy's journey. And if your boy is up for talking to the SM and asking for a different counselor who will take the requirements seriously, then let him. If not, like BD said, you have a plan. Work it. You can consider the problem solved once the boy can say with confidence "I have completed the requirements." instead of "He/she signed off, it must be okay." Hopefully in a few years your boy will be asked in his Eagle board of review what he did to be worthy of his rank. He won't want to say he collected a bunch of signatures! BTW - If requirements are being shortchanged, it's not your son's Eagle that's being tarnished, it's all of ours. This also happens when folks make Eagle requirements so onerous that boys quit before even trying. So pardon us if our "encouragement" is sounding a bit harsh. We know it's not your fault. We just figure you are the first person in your troop who will make a difference -- for the good of all the boys.

Insurance liability is not a factor in TPs. TP's are for accountability, and you probably have higher powers who you need to reckon with (the Mrs. or your Mama for example). Spend the time you'd otherwise waste on paperwork checking your oil and brakes.