qwazse

I would be more upset if the majority of priests were dismal. Puns aside, It seems to me to be an overestimate of avowed practicing homosexuals. I've seen similar accusations directed toward GSUSA.

If the boys organize it and coordinate other volunteers in the clean-up, I would count it as a troop activity for first class requirements. If you let my troop camp there, I promise you my SM will count it as a camping night for our boys. So I guess if your boys camp there, they should count it for a camping night too! That said, because it's local, you need to decide what to do to make it an adventure for the boys. Maybe a hike to one of the farms to learn about its operation? A pioneering project? Making stations of the cross for the CO? I personally see it as a great location to do an ILST course. Any teaching materials are just a walk to the church. You get the idea. If the boys are taking advantage of the proximity just to avoid spending a day with the troop, showing up at the end of the day and running home before breakfast, I would not count it. But, if they are cashing in the reduction in travel time to be productive, it would qualify in my book.

Don't know how many stream crossings are on the AT, but in wilderness areas, I carried a pair of water shoes instead of sandals/crocs. They had a durable sneaker tread, so I could hike in them a ways if I was tired of the boots. downside: They would stink to high heaven if they never aired out.

sunto A-10 compass. Needle settles faster than anything (even my electronic compass), declination lines in the housing, and the instruction book was we'll written.

Not a fan of the service hours obsession. (IMHO the phrase "counts for service hours" should be banned from all announcements.) I wouldn't want Tenderfoot advancement to be held up because of a troop that had not scheduled a project suitable for a young boy's age and skill level. Frankly, I would like to think that you could use rank as a rough guide to which boys are suited for certain projects. (For example, setting a bunch of pre-Tenderfoot scouts to road-side litter pick-up is a recipe for failure. Tenderfoots, on the other hand, should have learned the basics of hiking on a road, so any safety instructions are reinforcing old material, not presenting new material.) When you think of T2F as preparing a boy to serve, it kinda makes sense why clocking hours isn't so explicit.

Eliminate "using the EDGE method" from 4c.

I don't think you'd want cub headgear with boy scout or venturing uni. Otherwise, I say go for it. I think the blue garrison cap would look sharp with the yellow shirt.

One more question for the Brits: same uniform across units? Especially the for the leaders, is there a distinction in uniform for leaders of the group as a whole vs. leaders for the unit? Just thought about it as I am rifling through the laundry for my grey shorts to go with my green venturing shirt and instead found green canvas shorts (which I am just crazy about BTW) that go with the tan shirt. Tonight's activity is venturing, Monday's is boy scouts. Some of my fellow Yanks have different shirts for each distinct leadership role: unit(s) vs. council vs. area. Just wondering how it plays out across the pond.

The real travesty is the paperwork load on GS leaders just to go camping. Not sure if it's a national thing, or our council, or camp-specific. But, my co-advisor complains about the relative complexity vs. BSA tour plans, etc ... In terms of rhetoric, we would do well to remind our kids that there is an ongoing battle for their hearts and minds. They should be coached not award the prize to just anybody.

I met one reader from a neighboring area last summer. I have yet to meet anybody I've split hairs with on a thread, but am looking forward to the day I do.

Not gonna lecture you. Sounds like you are satisfied with things on the adult front. If it's just the attendance thing, I'd suggest mixing it up ... Game (sometimes older boys are balancing between sports, etc ..., maybe this part can be optional for them -- if they call ahead and excuse themselves.) Flags Oath Scoutmaster Minute Skills teaching. - Each Patrol rotates organizing this. They may: -- Read straight from a reference, -- Demonstrate, -- Invite guest speakers, or -- Throw down a challenge. Skills testing. - In patrols for T2F stuff or to take up the challenge just thrown down. Announcements (they may go faster at meeting's end) Retire Flags PLC 15 minutes after the meeting, - boys who want to work on MB's can arrange to meet with a counselor during skills testing or the PLC. We have the issue with some of our boys being "SPL shy". One candidate whose time has come, I think is avoiding the position maybe because he's SM's son. It's even worse with my crew this year. We have a core that shows up for meetings, but nobody wants to hold office!

Z, it sounds like your librarian will be porting a file box from home to the meetings whereas ours port it from the storage closet to the hall where we meet. We use durable plastic hanging file boxes. In that case I would definitely concur that the SM should have a back-up copy, but not rely on it. If you want more adult leadership involved in this, fine, but I'd rather adults focus on maintaining their cars' tires, brakes, and windshield wipers. (Blew a tire on today's commute. Could you tell?)

[double post](This message has been edited by QwaZse)

BD, it's like backpacking. You and I know it's just glorified walking with the most important comforts hang at the ready from your shoulders. But for someone who's spent their life hopping in and out of a car to the nearest solid artifice that will provide food or shelter, it's downright radical. For venturers to lead it, you may need to pitch it as something "adventurous".

It'a not so much inventing as it is co-opting. Marriage between a man and a woman served as the ideal metaphor for the novel relationship proposed for the Almighty and His people. (In this context, gender identification is significant, but that's a different thread.) Regardless, Christians reserve the right to impose their will on the rest of society. The distinction between spiritual and legal is, in some cases, specious. This may be one of those cases. For my part, all marriages should be gay. I've seen some folks in dismal ones. Is it really that hard to dig up a little joy every day for one other person?

One really cool thing that I saw was a display case of all of the religious awards, the scouter who made it offerred anyone in our district to contact him and make arrangements to use the display in their own presentation. You might only be able to put together a smaller collection, but the boys would have fun seeing it. so what if it doesn't relate to your LNT goals? Maybe your vision is tHat your pack have knowledge of the variety of programs related to the BSA.

...The old BSA guys absolutely hate it.. Well, what a surprise. Hopefully they'll wise up and shut up before the youth hear them. Most kids don't get that even a disagreeable adult can be supportive once they see that the youth really care about a situation. If you have a couple of mature venturers (one male and one female is fine), you should approach them with the offer "How would you like to start something completely different ..." Wahooker: one of the hypotheticals that folks blew smoke about (fanned by our former UC) was my crew being a drain on the troop treasury. We had separate books from the start, but ya know what? When there isn't a problem, someone will make one up just so they can have something to fix. It's called putting the BS in the BS of A.

Eng, at some point ask your scout about the CoH. Try to see if the disruptive boys "got to" him. Is it routine? The same kids? Point is, if it's giving you a headache, that's one thing. If it's making other boys feel less than proud about their unit, that's another. And, that's info the SM will never get without you letting him in on it. Our CoH's are short and to the point. (Light some candles, make mom proud, get awards in an envelope, shake SM's hand, run downstairs for ice-cream and cookies.) Still, one CoH, a couple of older boys got "the giggles". I was thinking of reading them the riot act, but knowing their parents, I figured they'd catch all heck for it. Guess they did because so far it hasn't happened again. With truly ADHD kids, I find that adding lots of "bells and whistles" -- skits and such -- only makes it worse for them. Better to streamline the ceremony so they are only stuck in the chair for 20 minutes. Calm and efficient with minimal distraction is the order of the day.

Co-ed civil unions. There's a controversy on par with female leadership for boy scouts!

BD, stick with your model and pretend that's the way it works all over the country. I got blow-back over suggesting something like this for crew/troop. Old SM: "I don't want to hear anything about the crew in this [committee] meeting." Not blaming the guy. He was trying to accommodate everyone and their stupid boundaries* -- plus he had to reckon with me who was not about to care. New SM and I just let the committees pretend they are running their separate units, and we pool resources whenever the kids ask us to. It kinda hurt membership (new troop spun off as a result), but the kids and parents we have left are civil to one another. Fred, the basic hindrance to the one-unit concept (aside from the pettiness) is that BSA doesn't have a program for 7 to 13 yo girls. This makes it a bit of a leap for a female Venturer, for example, to be a den chief. Chances are she never was even a "Pack sister". Regardless, she has a learning curve that she may not want to surmount.

Oh, but the little fiefdoms! What would people do without them?

You need a better lodge flap!!! Don't get me wrong, I think the OA should have business at every roundtable. At the very least, the chief should be asking scouters if things are going well with elections, ordeals, signing up for conclaves, etc ... Make sure scouters ask their boys what they like about the program. Lodge reps should knock on the door of every troop that doesn't show up at roundtable. They should host a cracker barrel or social hour at camporees where every arrowman wears their sash. If they are serving as arrowmen, wear the sash. Dirty it up a little. Then, when they regroup with their unit or patrol, the sash gets stowed for the rest of the weekend. Just like at summer camp, the boys only wear them for call-out night (which happens to be our visitor night). I'm not going to stop a boy from stowing his sash on his belt at a troop CoH, but if he has it on his shoulder I'm going to expect some O/A business to be conducted. That's the way we roll, and nearly every boy in our troop wants to be elected (the younger FC scouts sometimes ask to wait a year). Some boys are quite active. Their enthusiasm with or without the sash is a top sell.

We get as low as 20% and as high as 90%. Scheduling conflicts with sports and exams are the primary challenges. Sometimes we're intentional about that. 50% attendance gets us at about 9 scouts, which is ideal for most backpacking trips. It gets the boys who aren't into NAND or sports up and moving.

Our "library" is a couple of carry cases that we keep in a back room at the meeting place. It's available to the boys if the librarian is absent. It holds MB pamphlets and other reference material. I see absolutely no problem with filing the MB councils list on a shelf where every boy has access. Since the ideal way to teach a skill includes referencing, SM should coach the scout in looking up counselors and once the boy finds the page for a particular badge, SM identifies the counselors the boys should call. Boy then copies the contact info while SM is filling out the blue card. Boy returns list to library and checks out a MB pamphlet. He is then ready do start his journey on his own time. What you don't want is parents with unfettered access to that list. As it is, parents constantly ask me who is MBC for what. Even after hearing my "I don't know, but I'm sure mr SM will find the right counselor for your boy" for the umpteenth time, they keep asking.

MT: We all know that foxes bat at low fruit first! Hey Snappy: I'm starting to get the feeling that your pack is competing with my crew. How about sending some $$ our way? The IH and COR need to get on the same page. Just to warn you that swapping CORs does not always work out. Doing it behind closed doors makes it miserable for folks. And, if everyone can accept the fact that badgering from a crazy scouter can bring out the worst in every one, maybe a little cool-down time is all that anyone needs. Bottom line: although things seem to be going downhill fast. Change one variable at a time, if at all possible.