qwazse

I don't think you'd want cub headgear with boy scout or venturing uni. Otherwise, I say go for it. I think the blue garrison cap would look sharp with the yellow shirt.

One more question for the Brits: same uniform across units? Especially the for the leaders, is there a distinction in uniform for leaders of the group as a whole vs. leaders for the unit? Just thought about it as I am rifling through the laundry for my grey shorts to go with my green venturing shirt and instead found green canvas shorts (which I am just crazy about BTW) that go with the tan shirt. Tonight's activity is venturing, Monday's is boy scouts. Some of my fellow Yanks have different shirts for each distinct leadership role: unit(s) vs. council vs. area. Just wondering how it plays out across the pond.

The real travesty is the paperwork load on GS leaders just to go camping. Not sure if it's a national thing, or our council, or camp-specific. But, my co-advisor complains about the relative complexity vs. BSA tour plans, etc ... In terms of rhetoric, we would do well to remind our kids that there is an ongoing battle for their hearts and minds. They should be coached not award the prize to just anybody.

I met one reader from a neighboring area last summer. I have yet to meet anybody I've split hairs with on a thread, but am looking forward to the day I do.

Not gonna lecture you. Sounds like you are satisfied with things on the adult front. If it's just the attendance thing, I'd suggest mixing it up ... Game (sometimes older boys are balancing between sports, etc ..., maybe this part can be optional for them -- if they call ahead and excuse themselves.) Flags Oath Scoutmaster Minute Skills teaching. - Each Patrol rotates organizing this. They may: -- Read straight from a reference, -- Demonstrate, -- Invite guest speakers, or -- Throw down a challenge. Skills testing. - In patrols for T2F stuff or to take up the challenge just thrown down. Announcements (they may go faster at meeting's end) Retire Flags PLC 15 minutes after the meeting, - boys who want to work on MB's can arrange to meet with a counselor during skills testing or the PLC. We have the issue with some of our boys being "SPL shy". One candidate whose time has come, I think is avoiding the position maybe because he's SM's son. It's even worse with my crew this year. We have a core that shows up for meetings, but nobody wants to hold office!

Z, it sounds like your librarian will be porting a file box from home to the meetings whereas ours port it from the storage closet to the hall where we meet. We use durable plastic hanging file boxes. In that case I would definitely concur that the SM should have a back-up copy, but not rely on it. If you want more adult leadership involved in this, fine, but I'd rather adults focus on maintaining their cars' tires, brakes, and windshield wipers. (Blew a tire on today's commute. Could you tell?)

[double post](This message has been edited by QwaZse)

BD, it's like backpacking. You and I know it's just glorified walking with the most important comforts hang at the ready from your shoulders. But for someone who's spent their life hopping in and out of a car to the nearest solid artifice that will provide food or shelter, it's downright radical. For venturers to lead it, you may need to pitch it as something "adventurous".

It'a not so much inventing as it is co-opting. Marriage between a man and a woman served as the ideal metaphor for the novel relationship proposed for the Almighty and His people. (In this context, gender identification is significant, but that's a different thread.) Regardless, Christians reserve the right to impose their will on the rest of society. The distinction between spiritual and legal is, in some cases, specious. This may be one of those cases. For my part, all marriages should be gay. I've seen some folks in dismal ones. Is it really that hard to dig up a little joy every day for one other person?

One really cool thing that I saw was a display case of all of the religious awards, the scouter who made it offerred anyone in our district to contact him and make arrangements to use the display in their own presentation. You might only be able to put together a smaller collection, but the boys would have fun seeing it. so what if it doesn't relate to your LNT goals? Maybe your vision is tHat your pack have knowledge of the variety of programs related to the BSA.

...The old BSA guys absolutely hate it.. Well, what a surprise. Hopefully they'll wise up and shut up before the youth hear them. Most kids don't get that even a disagreeable adult can be supportive once they see that the youth really care about a situation. If you have a couple of mature venturers (one male and one female is fine), you should approach them with the offer "How would you like to start something completely different ..." Wahooker: one of the hypotheticals that folks blew smoke about (fanned by our former UC) was my crew being a drain on the troop treasury. We had separate books from the start, but ya know what? When there isn't a problem, someone will make one up just so they can have something to fix. It's called putting the BS in the BS of A.

Eng, at some point ask your scout about the CoH. Try to see if the disruptive boys "got to" him. Is it routine? The same kids? Point is, if it's giving you a headache, that's one thing. If it's making other boys feel less than proud about their unit, that's another. And, that's info the SM will never get without you letting him in on it. Our CoH's are short and to the point. (Light some candles, make mom proud, get awards in an envelope, shake SM's hand, run downstairs for ice-cream and cookies.) Still, one CoH, a couple of older boys got "the giggles". I was thinking of reading them the riot act, but knowing their parents, I figured they'd catch all heck for it. Guess they did because so far it hasn't happened again. With truly ADHD kids, I find that adding lots of "bells and whistles" -- skits and such -- only makes it worse for them. Better to streamline the ceremony so they are only stuck in the chair for 20 minutes. Calm and efficient with minimal distraction is the order of the day.

Co-ed civil unions. There's a controversy on par with female leadership for boy scouts!

BD, stick with your model and pretend that's the way it works all over the country. I got blow-back over suggesting something like this for crew/troop. Old SM: "I don't want to hear anything about the crew in this [committee] meeting." Not blaming the guy. He was trying to accommodate everyone and their stupid boundaries* -- plus he had to reckon with me who was not about to care. New SM and I just let the committees pretend they are running their separate units, and we pool resources whenever the kids ask us to. It kinda hurt membership (new troop spun off as a result), but the kids and parents we have left are civil to one another. Fred, the basic hindrance to the one-unit concept (aside from the pettiness) is that BSA doesn't have a program for 7 to 13 yo girls. This makes it a bit of a leap for a female Venturer, for example, to be a den chief. Chances are she never was even a "Pack sister". Regardless, she has a learning curve that she may not want to surmount.

Oh, but the little fiefdoms! What would people do without them?

You need a better lodge flap!!! Don't get me wrong, I think the OA should have business at every roundtable. At the very least, the chief should be asking scouters if things are going well with elections, ordeals, signing up for conclaves, etc ... Make sure scouters ask their boys what they like about the program. Lodge reps should knock on the door of every troop that doesn't show up at roundtable. They should host a cracker barrel or social hour at camporees where every arrowman wears their sash. If they are serving as arrowmen, wear the sash. Dirty it up a little. Then, when they regroup with their unit or patrol, the sash gets stowed for the rest of the weekend. Just like at summer camp, the boys only wear them for call-out night (which happens to be our visitor night). I'm not going to stop a boy from stowing his sash on his belt at a troop CoH, but if he has it on his shoulder I'm going to expect some O/A business to be conducted. That's the way we roll, and nearly every boy in our troop wants to be elected (the younger FC scouts sometimes ask to wait a year). Some boys are quite active. Their enthusiasm with or without the sash is a top sell.

We get as low as 20% and as high as 90%. Scheduling conflicts with sports and exams are the primary challenges. Sometimes we're intentional about that. 50% attendance gets us at about 9 scouts, which is ideal for most backpacking trips. It gets the boys who aren't into NAND or sports up and moving.

Our "library" is a couple of carry cases that we keep in a back room at the meeting place. It's available to the boys if the librarian is absent. It holds MB pamphlets and other reference material. I see absolutely no problem with filing the MB councils list on a shelf where every boy has access. Since the ideal way to teach a skill includes referencing, SM should coach the scout in looking up counselors and once the boy finds the page for a particular badge, SM identifies the counselors the boys should call. Boy then copies the contact info while SM is filling out the blue card. Boy returns list to library and checks out a MB pamphlet. He is then ready do start his journey on his own time. What you don't want is parents with unfettered access to that list. As it is, parents constantly ask me who is MBC for what. Even after hearing my "I don't know, but I'm sure mr SM will find the right counselor for your boy" for the umpteenth time, they keep asking.

MT: We all know that foxes bat at low fruit first! Hey Snappy: I'm starting to get the feeling that your pack is competing with my crew. How about sending some $$ our way? The IH and COR need to get on the same page. Just to warn you that swapping CORs does not always work out. Doing it behind closed doors makes it miserable for folks. And, if everyone can accept the fact that badgering from a crazy scouter can bring out the worst in every one, maybe a little cool-down time is all that anyone needs. Bottom line: although things seem to be going downhill fast. Change one variable at a time, if at all possible.

Where does the SM keep the list? With the troop librarian, of course! The POR description doesn't say the librarian gives out contact info anymore than it says he is expected to recite the requirements in each MB pamphlet! He just makes sure the list is someplace where the key adults can find it.

If I had a dime for the things that need "all the help they can get." Our lodge seems to be doing quite well for itself. They have a full page in our council's newsletter, while other districts, including Venturing, have had articles about their program intentionally rejected. (There is a reference in the middle of the rag to the web page URL for district calendars.) Still, I think their success is mostly due to the enthusiasm of the youth members. Anyway, our boys do not wear OA sashes at troop CoH's. That's what lodge flaps are for. If there is a portion of a meeting devoted to lodge business, they can put their sashes on at the time. When they are not wearing it, might they "carry" it on their belt for convenience? That way, it is available for those district/unit meetings in which a portion is lodge business. Otherwise it is neatly folded and at the ready on their person. Does the guide offer any other way to keep the sash when not being worn?

I'm feeling Fred's pain. We're just getting one or two boys because our CO's pack is feeding another troop. But none of our boys are members of the CO, so maybe they are feeling a little pain too. Maybe if we made a public display of boys sing for stuff they lost, we would attract those Webelos.

Short does have a point. So much of this is above the boys, they can't go there, so don't worry about it. When they are old enough to have an FB account and find out what's been said about their pack, they will hopefully have positive memories of you to offset anything that was typed. If you think your COR is ignoring the facts, you need to sit with both him and the IH in the same room. Remind them both of the number of smiles from "four footers" that you saw at the last meeting. Make it clear that at the end of the day, *that* is how you would like to be measured. If anyone is actually doing work in your unit (i.e., serving not just telling folks how things should be done), get their opinion. If they say something is important, do it. Everyone else gets back burner status -- no matter how many E-mails they write!

We could talk handbook and end the conversation, but truth is there is a lot of picking and choosing to what gets applied. For our troop: 1. Meetings are one hour consisting of a) flags, pledge, oath, law; b) announcements; c) theme/training: usually broken into ability groups/patrols, boys may work on requirements or schedule SMCs or BORs if time allows, d) sign up for events, e) circle up ans SM minute, f) clean up. 2. Involvement means stay registered, show up at meetings, camp with us. Leaders are expected to give advance notice of their absences and make arrangements for them. The boys are each other's worst critics, so we try to foster accountability at that level. Bean-counting committee members are largely ignored. 3. Leaders are assigned tasks in accordance with their position, and if we think they need them, mentors. The natural ability of the leaders dictates to a degree what our troop does. If the boys don't step up, many events wont happen. (E.g., we may camp, but not back-country, if the boys skip shake-downs.) We work pretty hard at keeping parents off their backs. We try to get the boys to reflect on what worked or didn't -- what they'd change. With 18 youth on the roster, this is a pretty informal process. When we had numbers in the 40s, we used sign-in sheets, etc ... It depends on the SM.

Fishman, I meet weekly with a Christian who's dad was a strident atheist. Based on what I've learned from him, let me suggest that your son is in the "too early to tell" stages. He has to grow into his faith just as you have yours. Take whatever compromises den leaders come up with. Let him enjoy the program. As he matures encourage him not to take vows he doesn't believe in. Stay honest with yourself as well. As you can see there are a lot of scouters willing to stretch for the both of you. Some of them are doing so out of their belief in God and what they feel would be expected of them at the core of their religion. Then, like the rest of us, bite your nails and hope the kid does right and maybe inspires something in you as well.