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Interesting question. I grew up in a troop where patrols lasted indefinitely. Flags were handed down till they were worn and tattered. New youth were divided among them, except for one year when we were swamped with crossovers, and I was asked to start a patrol. Making the flag was serious business because it had to be one that would last! My sons' troop patrols last a year, roughly. I think it's a shortcoming. There's no investment in flags or yells. They can rename themselves, but they always seem to "forget" their patrol name. They fall into shape for summer camp, because that's our most popular event, but they break down after that. In the fall they'll report as patrol #1, #2, etc ... (And I tease them that dens have numbers, patrols should have names!) I am trying to get the SM to encourage a little more "esprit-d-corps". At the same time, if this is our worst dysfunction, I feel we're doing fine.

From my experience ... Lacking someone to push the kid out the door ... You need one parent or older brother willing to drag the kid camping. And the other willing to cooperate. Which means you need to get in the face of each family member and emphasize that they are missing the opportunity of a lifetime to get to know their son and some potentially great friends of his. I've had one mom gung ho, and the dad fussed over the boy until he got homesick. (I hate parent night.) After going over issues with the mom, I said "I can't tell you all how to co-parent. But, you owe it to the lad to figure it out." The boy got involved in other activities that didn't create such a "push and pull!" What you did with BioDad was probably the best you can do. Hope he takes you up on the offer.

My TG and I were cut pretty much from the same cloth. So we had an amicable review of goals. How some of mine were so dependent on others that they probably should have undergone a fourth revision, which ones I may carry forward, which surprisingly did not wash with my youth, the "real tickets" that I wound up working instead of the one's for WB, etc ... We pushed paperwork, then had some "good old boy" talk about trucks and high school in the sticks and practical jokes. I'm trying to think of an appropriate venue for beading. One guy in our patrol did it after his troop's court of honor -- very nice, but way too long b/c these boys earned a fist full of MB's. Compared to the one's I've seen at roundtable, however, it was good to have youth present. I'll have a word with my council Venturing Chair about it. P.S. - The last line of my previous post was autocorrected ... This old crow don worked his ticket. (Yes, it was a big class. None the worse for it.)

For $20 you're probably right. That'll do. For more durable storage of your best knives and sharpener, you may also want to consider an 18" length of PVC pipe with the cap glued on one end, a 1/4" hole on both caps, and a 24" rope through each end with a pigtail knot tied inside each cap. For the family, I do something similar to jblake. My good knife is in my camp box, with the blade covered by a folded piece of cardboard a little wider than the width of the knife. The camp box is useful if you have moms who want to be sure of a flat cooking surface, drying rack, comforts of home, etc. For my crew, I just pull out my mess kit and expect them to have at least one serviceable knife among them.

Are you not just postponing the inevitable? If you don't have new scouts coming into a troop, where are you going to get new venturers to join a venture crew. As discussed above, not necessarily. But even if it were so, and no new youth were brought into the unit. If a half dozen boys stick together until they are 21, doing four unique adventures every year, I bet you'll have 6 youth grateful to you for "postponing the inevitable."

There was this judge in SW PA in the 19th century who asked to be buried on the WV border. That way, if the devil came for him from East or west, he could hop the state line and Old Slewfoot would have to get a warrant from the other jurisdiction. You're on the state line. Use it to your advantage. If you were asking to bunk with a 14 year old, we might have issues. As I explain to adults who make a fuss about YPT, the more leaders who understand how we operate and why, the easier it is to make good decisions. Welcome to the dark side. We have cookies!

I met with my ticket guide today. Done with two weeks to spare! We had a good chat. This old grow don worked his ticket. (Yes, it was a big class. None the worse for it.)

Was this an older boy "under the gun"? Or a younger boy who won't be pushed up against the deadline?

FWIW, I caught up with a friend in FL the day after Christmas. His son was quite excited to go to a winter camp put on by their council the next day. However, only one other boy from his troop was going. You may want to think of making a plan for two MB's that the boys want to master. Get in touch with an expert or two to estimate cost for three or four days of instruction. Find out how many of your boys are interested at the cost per boy of, say, 50% of your boys attending. If your desired number isn't met, put the word out to troops in your district on how many open slots you will have. If you have one boy who is interested in making the phone calls and doing invitations, it can be a rewarding experience for you both.

Also don't let being in an LDS unit isolate you. If there is a den leader from another unit in your area with whom you can compare notes give them a call. Your district executive can help you with that. Growing up, my troop shared some activities with an LDS unit, and I think it helped both SM's do their job better. As to the discipline issues, I think you should work on two activities each meeting. One sport and one craft. It could be an activity where you make a game, then play it. Be sincerely proud of the jocks in your den, that way later you can actually ask natural leaders among them to help teach the non-athletes a skill or two.

I'm pretty sure that some of my Girl Scouts would jump at the chance with both feet to earn something as special and as well known as Eagle Scout given the option! thing is, Ithink they have the option to earn something as apecial as ES. Just saw the most BSA-connected young woman I know post her GS gold award on online. Just as proud as if it were an Eagle. As long as girls have the opportunity to earn that toward the end of their GS career, or as long as they can look forward to joining a crew to earn Venturing Silver, I don't see the demand growing. From an adult perspective, either of those on a young person's resume would command respect in my book. I suspect any military recruiter would be impressed with a Ranger award. Most girls I've seen who want to be part of their brother's or boyfriend's troop want to do so because there's something about the character of those particular boys or the activities they do that appeals to them. Medals are the the last thing on their mind.

Young drivers do express a "creative" use of the technology that can be deadly. Since we can't deny people cars until they are in their thirties, there is no way we can be entirely certain that the difference in accident rates is entirely developmental.

Some things are iterative processes. If Nurture doesn't involve giving the brain lots of challenges, some with a probability of failure, the brain will develop poorly. Nature demands an adaptive system.

emb: ... NOT 'hand drawn diagrams' ... Sorry. Should have said 'graphic artist's analog rendering'! Thanks for the context.

Sounds like a great idea! I'd be surprised if you attracted a fraction of your boys, but I'm sure those who go would have a good time. Are you thinking of picking someplace local or will this involve travel? (In other words, are you all snow chasing?)

Thanks for the history, 00E! (My, I miss hand-drawn path diagrams!) Precedent or not, anything's possible. But, I agree with BP. It's unlikely. As things stand now, there's just not a demand. BP, I bet your crew E-COH's have more young women participating (at the very least, as color guard). Which may generate more interest. If every crew operated like that (or, e.g., if my venturers were asked to contribute to the troop's ceremony), it night bump up interest in Eagle a little more. I think the reverse could happen, more venturers will chase venturing awards, increasing the name recognition for Ranger and Silver. Then someone will be posting the thread "Silver Award - Boys ever?" Ain't diversity grand?

IT'S ABOUT THE BOYS!!!!! If they think it's worth passing on this trip for the sake of unity, then, Boomer, they can pass on the trip. But I've seen a lot of opportunities, small and large, like this. Generally, a boy would prefer to take a chance at being left on shore so his buddies can make the boat. It's not a "black spot", it's an opportunity to use that cash towards a different adventure. TwoCub, you have your head on straight. Give them the options. Tell them what you think is important. (E.g., sons should be given a long straw.) But, leave the decision entirely up to them. Heck, I'd leave the room and tell them when I come back they should have either a roster with their alternate or a blank piece of paper and we'll make plans to do something else that week.

It's sad to hear a good troop fade away, but if you and the CO are set on this tack, talk to the DE to make it happen. Some pointers: Get your adults to Venturing Leader Specific Training ASAP. If your COR comes along, it would be a great help. Make a plan for recruiting 8th graders as they turn 14 next year. Involve your boys in that plan. Don't expect any help from the DE on this, but be thankful if it comes. Brainstorm with your boys on some fellowship activities that don't involve overnights. E.g., for Halloween, our crew likes to gather around a backyard campfire after Trick-or-treating. Make a plan for fundraising. New uniforms, even if the youth design their own from t-shirts, are a new expense. You might want to underwrite the cost of Powderhorn, or other leadership courses for select youth. Most age-appropriate activities are more expensive and youth this age have to start saving for college as well.

the ASPL really just does what daddy tells him to ... but his dad is also advancement chair, and ha a lot of voice at committee meetings ... It's a bad day when an ASM or JASM is worrying about the Byzantine machinations of the committee. You do know that some troops give their SPL a seat at the committee? More than anything, this is so the boys get an idea of what the committee will or will not push for. At the least, you should have access to the committee meeting minutes so that you can know that those folks are focusing on how to support you in playing the game, not how to make change the way you play it. Many times, my role as ASM on the committee was to say "This is how the boys want to operate. The SM supports it. You should too." And, yes, that included the times when the SPL they chose we more popular than capable.

both-and is possible. For example, our CO's troop, pack, and crew have the same unit #. All of the boys in your troop can simultaneously be registered in any number of crews. So your troop doesn't have to disappear overnight. The same committee can verve both troop and crew, although separate committees for each is more common. Anyway, this does give you options -- of you have the leadership to support it.

Do you have sisters, girlfriends, and buddies (non-scouts) who want to be part of the program? Are your 18-20 y.o. ASM's comfortable with being "youth" again? Do you have several female adult leaders (moms or 21+ older sisters) willing to support you? (That not-enough-adults-for-an-outing can still occur if you don't.) In other words: is there a need? And, are your boys and their families up to meeting it?

The boys have a lifeboat problem! Ask them what they think is the best way to solve it. If all 5 of them have put $100 (or whatever your monthly payment would be) down, let the boys know that drawing straws is okay. But, it's their call. If they want to sit in a room and talk it out, that's fine. Unless your troop has some deep pockets, I would strongly encourage you to remind each boy that money is non-refundable unless they find their replacement and he is willing to negotiate deal for that open slot. If any boy does not have any money in the game, yet. He's out. Let them know that you will do your best to help the 'odd duck' find an adventure with another troop. Otherwise, he gets his deposit back.

There's no merging with AHG any more than there is with GS. If this happens, I think there are two pathways: 1. BSA becoming co-ed. That's a long way off given the American's strong cultural bent toward unisex programs. The only way I see this really happening is through a concerted effort of chartered organizations. 2. The BSA National Youth Cabinet fielding a petition (to whom? not sure) to allow earning First Class via Venturing. There would be no tenderfoot or second class rank: one advisor's conference, one board of review. All of the requirements would need to be translated into the crew leadership model (e.g., crew officers sign off on progress, etc ...). Non-scouts of both sexes would be eligible. Unlike BP's young women, mine have seen Eagle awarded through our troop, and none seemed to have voiced interest in obtaining it themselves. (Perhaps the pomp and circumstance of the Courts of Honor -- male leadership and all -- was off-putting?) One non-scout boy voiced interest in Eagle, so I offered him a possible end-run. (Join our troop for 6-12 months, to try and earn First Class. Feel free to work on remaining ranks through troop or crew, depending on whom you are most comfortable with.) He didn't take me up on the offer.

You are on the right track wanting to interact more with the other leaders in the pack. This sounds obvious, but it actually is quite hard for us to do: communicate, communicate, communicate. I think that's where you felt the impact of "poor teamwork." Scouting for Food is a huge challenge, and folks don't always appreciate how daunting it can be to a new parent -- even if their kids love it. Sometimes we have to adjust goals, sometimes request more manpower, sometimes give people a vision of how important this is. A go-see-it to a food distribution center or a visit from a representative of your local food bank may help with the vision. For refined goals and more manpower, you will need to start a conversation on three points: - What went well. - What didn't go so well. - What should be done differently. Be sure and listen to the other parents to see if they've had similar experiences or different ones. This will help you all know what to change for the next food drive.

The man is trying to help new crossovers for the first time! 'Fish, your troop may do it differently, or you may have confused SMC for BOR. Either way, it's not the problem that these folks are trying to make it out to be. The boys will have a fine scouting career with caring adults like yourself. Also, back to knots, the taught line can end with the last hitch going around the the standing in in the same direction as the first two, or in the opposite direction. It will hold under tension regardless.