qwazse

I'm a little more forgiving then Beav. I don't mind if they don't test on those 9 points in the context of a canoe trip or two. But, I don't want them testing before an adult. Simple reason, older boys forget those points no matter how well you've drilled it into them.* If you've executed 12 trips already, like as not you're going to forget some safety point. But, if you've had to test 4 or 5 crossovers every year, as well a trip afloat, earn canoeing MB, etc ... you've bettered the odds of having those points in your head when you need them! *Aren't you all glad that I didn't point out that thanks to "Reference" not being explicitly in EDGE, the boys wouldn't know that they should look up the the safety points before they plan?

I love those RSO volunteers! Are you going to rotate in a lane or two of pistols for any boys who are also Venturers? If you have binoculars, some of the boys could serve as spotters for each shooter. My boys really enjoyed shooting sport evenings and weekends, not so much that they want to do it all the time. (Pity, because my oldest was a good shot.) But, it was great to get them the skill without my investing to heavily in equipment that would only get minimal use. Now that he's an adult, son #1 is investing in archery. My daughter did not enjoy it so much, but her friends did. Regardless, it's thanks to guys like you that my kids could have great experiences like these!

If you can lay out the steps, I'd greatly appreciate it. I learned that JavaScript doesn't mesh with our Google Site, and I tried to wrap it in a Google Gadget, but it's still not "humming" as smoothly as I would like. I know a little more hacking might come up with a resolution, but that would cut into my time replying to threads.

Cambridge, Did you know that rumor has it when JRR Tolkien visited Tennessee and Kentucky he took a great interest in many of the family names in the hills? Names like Brandybuck and Proudfoot that eventually made their way into his Trilogy. Anyway, I would suggest you nail down the week that you are coming and find out which little town's festivals and county fairs are happening. They are scattered throughout Appalachia, and a few do start as early as June. Most really nice "bed and Breakfast" inns are within a day's drive of major international airports.

Thanks. I'll share that with our boys! My observations: The current merit badge covers the ethics of copyright infringement. Flowcharting campsite set-up is not a requirement for the current Computers or Robotics MB. [insert Kudu's 21's Century Woodbadge Rant Here.] (This message has been edited by qwazse)

but mention the Roman Catholic Church and I'm sure that someone will find fault Ea, That does not negate that a very large number of folks depend on the Helpfulness of Catholic Charities for today's meal. Toastmasters, (at least the one meeting I attended) epitomized Friendliness and Courtesy. Is that what you're trying to get at DS?

1. I have a friend who coordinated backpacking medical supplies into isolated Central American Villages. That would definitely fit in with some of my Venturer's ideals. 2. The HS Latin club does trips to Italy/Switzerland/Greece every couple of years. The usual bus tour stuff. For our Venturers, I'd love to fly out and meet them at the end of the tour and extend their stay by hiking in the Alps for a week. Thanks to college tuition and cost overruns on our last adventure, both of those are out of reach for me (for this year at least).

Our crew's annual plan goes something like: This year we are going to ski a couple of times, camp at least a half-dozen nights, share a couple of activities with our troop, gear up for some wilderness backpacking, participate in our VOA, climb a little, and fit in a service project or two. We'll let you know how things went on Scout Sunday. Thanks in advance for your approval.

I would like to break down what I said earlier a little more specifically, focusing on the orienteering requirement. It takes a lot of time to make sure a student "gets" navigation. Personally, I think it's harder than swim testing. Basically, you need to allow a boy a day in varied terrain allowing him to be in complete control of the map and compass. (This alone is something that many boys don't want to do. Last month I was on a great hike except for listening to the 14-17 year olds arguing about holding the map!). If he chooses the wrong path, you should let him follow it for a mile or so before asking him to tell you where he is and then helping him figure out how to correct course. Needless to say meeting prep is important to give a kid a head start, but no amount of meeting is going to replace time in the field. Multiply that by 8 boys, and you need a good 80 hours (and maybe as many miles) or more to get them proficient in just one requirement. On the other hand, if each boy cracks open his book, stares at his compass for a weekend, studies the quadrangle where he lives and finds his house and those of his friends, studies the map of the area the boys are heading before the leave, asks questions about it the meeting before departure, then more than half of them will show proficiency without the older scouts who are with you having to explain a lot. The ones who studied one concept more will correct the others who didn't quite get it, and by about mile 4, you will see them working together with each boy contributing to the success of the hike. It's a rare patrol where the majority of crossovers approach a challenging concept with that level of intensity. (Heck my crew still counts on me to pick the insertion points into wilderness areas! And, although they are getting better at reading weather charts, they still count on me to print them on our go/no-go decision day.). But, if those are the kind of boys you have, then FC in a year or less for all of them is a distinct possibility.

Two MBs done well may be worth the week. You might also suggest the mile swim

What do yeh suppose it really takes for that average lad who comes in without any prior skills to learn enough to be able to plan and navigate a 5 mile route on his own (mix of on-trail and a bit of open land)? On his own meaning that he personally can do the navigation. Because that's the requirement, eh? Simple answer: Step 1: losing patience with EDGE. Step 2: READING REFERENCE MATERIAL

IMHO, if anyone ever pressed the issue ... 1. I'd encourage them to call national about it. 2. If my request to keep both in the program fell on deaf ears, I'd ask the couple to determine which one of them is getting the most benefit from the program, and encourage the other to become "unofficial", but fully supportive of the crew until both cross that 21 mark. I'm also working on getting the "2nd generation" recruited. I'd love an excuse to keep having this much fun for another few years!

not the GOD of the Bible, but a twisted interpretation of scripture that is plainly erroneous So, promotion of heresy (let's set aside, for a moment, the ability of Joe Scouter to discern such a thing in post-modern society) should disqualify a group from calling itself a scouting program?

Does if fall on the PL and APL to juggle the duty roster and Patrol Meeting schedule to meet these individual plans? In our troop, yes and no. I've known PL's who were very serious about doing this, and very frustrated when a kid who last week said he wanted to complete requirement X is now shrugging off his duties for req X! In that case, I encourage a PL to focus attention on other boys who are interested in progressing. Sometimes we have a bunch of younger boys who are picking up skills faster than we could track. (It's been a while.) When that was the case, we gave all of our FC+ scouts basic ground rules on reviewing and approving requirements, and allowed any of them to sign off requirements. In general, that's why we have PLC's and cracker barrels. So that the older boys can vent to one another about those "tough cases". Then they can decide if and how they want to provide program to accommodate them. So we have a little bit of team teaching going on. I've seen this "impromptu teachers' lounge" manifest itself repeatedly. Not merely about scouting. Troop life provides a venue where boys have time to figure out how to address problems in their band or sports team. Even among my crew: one time the young ladies were talking about how to better help a learning disabled client where a couple of them worked. So, the more you let boys take up these responsibilities, the healthier it is. I wouldn't say abandon your chart, because that's largely immaterial to the whole process. With or without a spreadsheet, adults can either act to support a boy-led structure or undermine it.

Thanks, Bronc!

One pointer (and a really important one I think, because most boys don't do any journaling) is after those trips, have each boy reflect on what he just did. "What was one thing you did?" "What was the best thing that happened?" Then have the boys write the event in their handbook. (There's a place for them to record their first five activities with the troop.) The feedback you get from reflecting like this will give you a real idea of how you'll need to slow some things down or speed somethings up.

Ya AnBMom, If I had stumbled across an AHG troop when my daughter was that age, we probably would have signed on. It was a long wait for her to turn 14. But then again, I'm not too bothered by indoctrinations by fundamentalists of any persuasion. Youth led + smiles on their faces + age appropriate challenges = scouting. Now the real challenge will be down the road when the likes of your daughter take the helm of their program in this post-modern society. Will they buy into the reasoning of the BP's of the world? Or, will they feel that the anchoring squarely in the Christian camp served them too well to set aside? Regardless of what is concluded, if it's the young adults haggling over those tough questions, then it's a scouting organization. If it's an "old guard", then it's something else. So my answer: time will tell ...

Oh for the love of ... Buy the green-on-tan numbers. Ask the troop if any pack-rats have any used white on red numbers he can "borrow" for just two months. IMHO National's absurd spinning off of different color schemes for every transition a boy makes should not be countenanced. There should be one color pattern for all unit #s across all programs. Change it in one program = change it in all. This allows for vintage #s to be carried forward. Next thing you know some thread-seller at national will mandate a different council patch for different programs in a council. They might even require different borders on the flag patches. [End of rant](This message has been edited by qwazse)

I have not noticed any such pattern. In fact recent history is bearing out that our "slow and steady boys" are sticking with scouting, while the FCFY boys have left us for video games and such! I guess troops are like a box of chocolates ...

I assume the biggest problem would be in first aid, swimming, knot tying, and actual outing time? every kid has a different hang up. With my youngest son, it was getting off his seat and talking with one of several people in our community about rights and responsibilities. And, getting the price of the items on his menu. He knew how to make pizza, but he didn't know the cost of a cup of flour! I prohibited his mom from looking it up for him. After three years, he figured it out. That's why 'fish, you're better off helping the boys make their own schedule of what they want to do. They'll surprise you. One month half of them might want to nail down all their knots, while the other half want to perfect orienteering skills. The next month they might be bothered that one boy didn't pick up a skill and might want to do whatever it takes to help him past muster with the SPL. I personally have no problem with a 14 year old Eagle Scout, my PL was one of those, and he was a great guy because he seemed to have all the time in the world to make sure we knew our stuff. If your son is one of those, sit back and enjoy the show and start saving up for the big ticket items he'll be asking for!

I think you're doing exactly what I'd do in the situation. I wouldn't want to pull a good leader off the roster if they are in a healthy relationship. But it is something that could get blown out of proportion by a parent who only heard half the story from a 14 year old. We would hope that such a parent would call us first before making a phone call to our SE.

I think you're doing exactly what I'd do in the situation. I wouldn't want to pull a good leader off the roster if they are in a healthy relationship. But it is something that could get blown out of proportion by a parent who only heard half the story from a 14 year old. We would hope that such a parent would call us first before making a phone call to our SE.

5mom, I was referring to point 10 on the last page of BSA's youth protection policy: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ypt/pdf/25-026.pdf Which many crews like yours turn a blind eye to if the couple in question are only two or three years apart in age. As was discussed in the following thread: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=283974

At the crew level, it is possible to have this kind of variety in the program (partly because the youth are more mobile and able to drive to the programs that interest them). But I still find youth gravitating to the group that has the most friends from school. As long as they're with their friends, they'll make the program happen.

I also wanted to add that this also helps you get to know which of the older boys in the troop are natural instructors.