qwazse

KDD, your view of the margin in cookies is exaggerated. GS trips are rarely as costly as big-ticket scouting. Far fewer girls participate in GS/USA jamborees. Look, if you think cookies are that great, your patrols could bake and distribute them at will.

Treat it as only one bridge burnt! Your younger son may approach the game completely different ... irrespective of any salt in old wounds. The troop's new participation policies may suit him perfectly.

Congratulations! FYI, he wouldn't have to redo requirements for the ranks he's already earned ... only do any additional new requirements for the rank he's working on, which for Eagle there weren't any. But, if it scared him straight, nice work mom. Sounds like if he keeps it up, he'll have one Palm to add three months after his conference. But the really huge deal is that he's taking what he learned in NYLT to heart and earning the trust of his peers and his SM.

@@meyerc13, Nice speech. Wasted breath. The SM and CC are rules-oriented ... as long as they are making the rules. UC's are never perceived as welcome guests in this kind of conversation. The only things that might prevail upon them to change are: 1. Other SMs in the district telling them openly at a round-table that they are going off the rails (using language that @@Krampus suggests) and maybe no small number of them offering to accept the boy's transfer application, find him a counselor to wrap up that last MB, conference with him, and arrange his BoR. 2. The lad's patrol rallying around him to plan 10 overnights in this month tailored around his schedule and interests and friends. (Using brute force scout spirit that @@Beavah and I suggest.) Then he can come back to the SM with an "With all due respect, I now believe a conference and review is in order." The DAC and CAC are basically implementing #1 on behalf of the scouters in the district and council, respectively. However, this SM and CC are unlikely to see it that way. They want a fiefdom, and any naysayers are just throwing missiles over the walls.

Don't see how it's silly. If some 17-year-olds have a good 3-day hike plan and need some competent adults for the sake of legitimacy, I always look at skills over age. (That said if the plan is really good ... knowing how some of my boys can cook ... I might all-but-beg to be invited along. )

The one lifeguard I provided (thanks to the Laurel Highland Council's VOA network) and I were welcomed (and fed quite nicely ) at a camporee that one of my venturers organized for her Gold award. This is a vicious cycle, many girls who leave the program, when interviewed, claimed they did so due to a lack of outdoor activities. This leaves the girls who remain to dictate the program, unless the moms set boundaries that guide them outdoors. Sometimes the outdoors-women take the reigns and form challenging programs. Other times, they hit an upper limit to how far their troop will go (a "glass canopy" if you will). That does not mean the question goes unasked. From a 2012 study (http://www.girlscouts.org/content/dam/girlscouts-gsusa/forms-and-documents/about-girl-scouts/research/GSRI_More_than_Smores-Outdoor_Experiences.pdf): Outdoors Once a Month in Girl Scouts: A Key to Leadership Development Monthly involvement in the outdoors contributes to girls’ lead-ership development. Experiences such as playing and walking outdoors and taking outdoor field trips do not demand much specialized equipment or training, but they may provide girls with a very low-stakes, socially supportive context in which to improve their health, practice cooperation and teamwork, and try things they thought they couldn’t do. Environmental service also seems to provide girls with a sense of purpose and to socialize them into an environmentalist mindset—one that promotes connection with, concern for, and conservation of the environment. However, only about 40 percent of Girl Scouts participate in monthly outdoor activities through Girl Scouts. What about the other 60 percent? Why are the majority of Girl Scouts not getting outdoors regularly in Girl Scouts? So, I don't think what you are seeing is not merely a reaction to a bunch of bloggers. Comprehensive studies of girls in the program are driving organizers to ask "why not more?" A nation-wide Girl Scout Voices survey this year (nearing conclusion this month) might offer some insights as to if and how things are moving on that front.

The litigious path is very hard emotionally. Being right does not always equate to feeling right. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Frankly if I were your son, I'd line up ten nights of camping with my buddies and their girlfriends and sisters ... Starting on my 18th birthday!

Of the 30k members lost, one wonders how many want to be scouts?(Yes, that numerical reality is pitted against the estimated losses if the state's DA of NY shut down every scout camp for equal employment violations.)

‎On the bright side, there's a hike in your future!

How about a cutaway? Imagine a pach with threads that, when removed, reveal a pattern underneath. Camp in each corner of your state, and you will have exposed an underlying pattern.

What would be really cool, is a custom patch in the shape of state with birds-eye mini-tents (hammocks?) on each place that they've camped!

Try not to think of one method as more important than the others. Usually the most important one at any given time is the one they're not good at. If a patrol is going out every weekend and deftly robbing liquor stores to buy drugs under the association of some adult thugs ... ideals is the most important method. (Sounds extreme, but if you read some of the early press releases about scouting, the notion that boys would organized into groups of friends is taken for granted, but the purpose for peace and good in the world is highlighted.) Regarding ILST, I would suggest you have the SPLs (incoming and outgoing) lead it. And have them think of the most entertaining way to deliver it. (Some troops like a campout, others an afternoon before a bowling night, others as part of consecutive meetings, etc ...)

Congratulations to your son ... both on rank and age. (Survival is a good thing!) Until he's 18, you all could give him a JASM patch ... if that sort of thing matters to your adults. That would still involve meeting attendance, but he could take on a particular tasks as the SM needs. If he wants to invest time in a crew, have him give a call to every advisor/crew president within whatever you deem a reasonable driving distance, find out what each crew is doing, and pay some visits. Also, have him check out any Sea Scout ships in your area. For his birthday present, be sure to include a BSA adult application (two if he wants to be in both Troop and Crew) and the links to myscouting with instructions to make an account and take the Boy Scout Youth Protection and Venturing Youth Protection. (That's assuming there is both an SM and Advisor who would welcome him.)

I guess this depends on locality. In some places those layers are thin; others, very thick. Or, that layer of clay can be surprisingly hard. I don't know if we can generalize to rocks, but this is why geologists love road cuttings. The digging has already been done c/o the taxpayer! He may need to discuss this with his MB counselor to find out the best way to do this in your area.

Can somebody help me with this? What is involved in "scouting out" a new trail? Isn't that something a "scout" should do? As in, I unfold a trail map of PA or some state/national park on a table and say "decide where when, here are some numbers to call if you want more info." First boy how comes up with even a half-baked idea gets to run point and partner with someone (adult or older youth) to promote the hike to everyone else. Get transport to the trailhead, and deal with whatever eventualities await the weekend. Honestly, E94, conditioning for the AT involves mainly getting your gear on and hiking your sorry butt around town for several weekends in a row. City locked? Maybe ask the owner of some tall building if you all can use a stairwell to practice verticals. End the day at a minor league ballpark, offering to be color guard. Maybe I've been too reckless with these boys.

No, but honestly, compared to your troop, I'm not seeng a higher " success ratio" with the SPL always on point. (And I was an SPL once upon a time.) It sounds like if you want to transition to something more consistent with your vision, proceed gently. You've got boys taking on management challenges and about 3/4 of them are rising to the challenge. Rather than focusing on the management strategy, start finding locations where the patrols can camp at substantial distance. I suspect as the PLs see you expecting them to maintain their responsibilities regardless of what they have to do for the SPL, they will consider electing their next one with an eye towards who might help them take up some of the slack.

I'm not going to deconstruct this consequence of a lack of common vision and unified leadership. There is no reason you all couldn't pick a campsite that the through-hikers would arrive at by the end of the day and leave in the morning. training for whatever big-ticket adventure ... Check. There is no reason why the influx of crossovers couldn't be handled under the assumption of 3 or 13 new scouts. There is no reason why a couple of patrols couldn't be the camporee patrols and represent the troop accordingly. But, until an SM fills the gap and supports one way of doing business and only hat way, the beatings will continue ...

Thanks! I do like BBQ. And gravitate to suspect hole-in-the-wall joints. I think my daughter would simply like a nice campground to pull in late and leave early ... splitting the drive in half or 1/3. We'd be leaving first thing Tuesday (or late Monday if we can get the title transferred quickly), and I think she reports to work Friday.

So, in a couple of weeks I'm driving daughter's car to her new job sight. If we manage to spare a day (or even a couple of hours between shifts driving) where would be your favorite stop?

Never had to deal with a forest fire -- just hurricane force frozen winds on an appalcian plateau. That sense of panic came on and there was a desire to try everything except plan A: a four mile hike in the open through blistering winds. Fortunatelly I found us a laurel thicket where the troop could gather and think without getting an ice-blasting. Every boy had managed to find a bite to eat, had water that wasn't frozen. And was ready to move as a team, and regroup once the trail turned to the lee of the ridge. I could not imagine that same place on fire, but it had once been. Finding those clearings and boulder fields if you had not done your homework would have been nigh impossible. Digging in and hunkering down in that hard grown? Dreadful. But, I guess that's where you call up that 10th point of the law and do with a hope that you can make it through.

I dunno. It might be worth figuring out what in a smart phone has incendiary/sharps potential.

I've refused to use the word in that context. My line to the kids as the went out the door on school days: "You have ___ days of publicly funded education remaining to you. Use them wisely." They did. In fact, friends who I know were on welfare never considered it free. They did their darnedest to make up for lost time and get an education, get employed, and start "paying back."

It's not that far fetched. I have crew youth who want to negotiate some steak dinners with a ranger for service time fixing up a rather neglected camp. I forwarded the youth the phone #. It's on them to give him a call and figure out a reasonable date and exactly how many youth he wanted to extend this offer to. (Actually, the one youth turns 18 tomorrow. So, he could negotiate that legalese.) No reason why a PL or QM can't do those work-for-food contract negotiations. Most of us in these parts accept handshakes as binding. For the rest of the BSA-required hoops, my preference is to have youth assemble all of the necessary paperwork. Fill it out. Come to me for review and a signature. No reason why a patrol can't achieve that level of proficiency (where THEY tell ME the plan) for most camp-outs.

KDD thanks for the update. Glad your back! Retest everything? So are these SMCs held on 9sq miles of navigable land with a staffed aquatics area?

Thanks for spinning this off of the original discussion. So, it seems that after a cumulative SMC and BoR, you are uncertain that the boy is indeed a first class scout? I'm not about to throw stones, because we all know that, lacking the authority to repeal a rank at the first failure to demonstrate a First Class skill, we have a nation of shirts a large percentage of which aren't living up to their patch on the left pocket. Oddly, your adults suddenly care that the competencies match the patch. As far as I'm concerned ... no more adult intervention. Politely ask your lead boys to help fix your screw-ups inasmuch as they can. First, I would ask the PL/SPL if they've seen the boy demonstrate any of the skills in question. For example, mom may have signed off on the swimming requirements because the boy showed her his buddy tag at camp. Well, if that's the case, maybe the PL remembers him taking that test. Same for all of the other requirements. It was their responsibility at the time to work with the boy from his book (even if the adults stole it from them), it's their responsibility now to sort it out. Given that you're being swamped with first years anyway, this would not be a fruitless exercise. It shouldn't take too much to determine if the boy "is all that". If so, water over the dam. The wrong signatures were in the book. But if not hers, others would have been there. Second, if those signatures were under false pretenses, I would get in touch with the troop he's transferring to.and tell the SM there about the entire debacle. Refer him to this forum if he wants advise beyond his ASMs/MCs to sort things out. And one more ... treat the boy like the patch he claims to be. Have him demonstrate his skills to some tenderfoot.