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@@NJCubScouter, that seems to be the case. However, most of these (service hours, camping nights) would be part of an average scout's experience. (E.g. swimming and canoeing at summer camp, plotting a course to an event, sorting through cooking utensils.) Hopefully the boys won't be discouraged by the extra hurdles. On the bright side, most of you second class scouts (who ranked up last year) should already be use the new reqs anyway. So, now that everyone is on the same page, expect things to go smoothly.

@@violamom3, welcome to the forums, and thanks for your service to the boys! I can believe you did this. Happens all the time. That's why there are three parts to the MB application: the one that stays with the boy all the time, the one that goes to the counselor, and the one that is turned into the unit. The unit and the boy's copies have the counselor's signature. So they are of equal value when ordering MBs. Let the boy know you made a mistake and ask if you can make a copy of his sections of cards for the MBs he completed. If he doesn't have his copy, ask him again who his counselor was, and if he doesn't remember that, where he earned it. If he remembers earning his badge at camp or at a weekend event. Camp staff might have those cards on file.

Looks comfy. As I mentioned in another thread, dimensions, esp. length (or lack thereof) are a big deal for some of us. So specs would be nice.

I think the age difference between these SM's and the regular forum members is showing.

My line to the kids: "We approve of flawless execution." If the made A's and one B: "Sorry you flunked. we love you anyway. better luck next time."

The scout who E-mailed me to say "thanks for the backpacking trip, it was fun". In this age of social media: images of erstwhile scouts/venturers taking their friends/family camping/geocaching/climbing/sailing. One lad, who could never connect with our Seabase trips, is now working a tall ship in the BVI (pics of rigging at sunset, enough to melt an eye-splice-lover's heart). Just having youth like these to brag about to my international friends (hint: the average Saudi's winter camping is when it gets below 100). Son #2 on his last day as a Boy Scout, in uniform, helping an elderly lady to her cab.

Welcome! Thanks for your all you do for the boys!

That sounds similar to what we've done in the past. Sometimes a troop will waive expenses for essential leaders/drivers, etc ... When they to that for me, I try to bring some treats, etc ...

One suggestion from the tall guy: In your specs, I can't find the length of the bag. I don't have a problem with pad shift in my hammock. Perhaps because I sleep diagonally in a square bag + square pad? Good luck!

We often underestimate how much youth value tradition ... be it a tradition of "visit a different camp every year" or "visit the same camp every year." The annual pencil-whipping you describe is part of that tradition.

It typically refers to the trails between campsites and program areas. For example, Heritage Reservation is mostly granite, sandstone, and roots. So, injury rates are proportional to the average speed at which youth traverse the grounds. We just try to slow down that average. The one time I didn't tell a youth to slow down (because I was on duty counting boaters at a venturing summit) she promptly fell, and I was then radioing the medic to come to the aquatics area. Nobody yells at someone on a morning jog down the road, or cross cross-country run on the fitness trail, or the athletic field. (E.g., to condition for football Son #1 and his buddies would run the campsite garbage on a heavy cart through the main road of camp to the dumpster -- no problem.)

Sorry, no reply worth typing wont be promptly deleted by moderators.

How about from Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops? (Spoiler: currently no instructions on having the students refer to the handbook.) You could have settled this two posts ago by saying "What? Don't you read {Insert official BSA publication here} where it says {insert quote about being sure to use a reference wherever possible here}."

it's allowed. But in some places, folks have to recognize burn bans. But this is nothing new. While those scouts in those old movies were being filmed in their flint and steel contest, somewhere in this country scouts were being asked to limit the starting of fires.

This is where you talk to the SM (and maybe older boys) in the troop you're visiting and describe your religious convictions and if they will support you in that. For example, our troop is sponsored by a church, but the church expects us to be welcoming to every youth regardless of religion. They expect us to request the boys say grace at meals and that's about it. Other churches have expectations for boys who call themselves Christian, and they expect leaders -- even if they themselves are not Christian -- to make sure the program allows for those expectations to be fulfilled. The only way you'll know is by asking. It's a hassle, but on the flip side, all that talking to adults you've never met before will prepare you for things like your next board of review.

Whoever taught them? Like maybe the scouter who takes his cues from Scouting? Go to the OP above, follow the link to the article, generate a word histogram, and let us know the number of synonyms of handbook, reference, literature, or reading you find. (I could tell you how many I found, but my count may be biased.) To be clear: if you have boys who are teaching other boys more efficiently than their counterparts did ten years ago, we all would benefit from hearing about it. It's just that from what I've seen, the emperor has no clothes.

Well, get your scouts who know the acronym, ask them to tell you what each letter means, in their own words. Determine what percentage of scouts mention a book, manual, or even online app. That percentage will tell you how often "reference" is understood to be part of the method. If it's not the "end all, be all," why bother requiring it?

I'm sorry you had to make this kind of decision. As an older scout with some leadership experience, you should have a say in your troop's program. At the very least, your patrol should be a set of friends who would help you generate the variety you are looking for. Sometimes adults get in the way of that. But also, sometimes, youth don't invest in training (from reading their handbook cover-to-cover to going to an extra week of program like NYLT during the year), and as a result they aren't "holding up their end of the deal" in delivering the promise of scouting to their community. So, given that you asked your question in a very good way. I'll try to respect you by giving you a little "tough talk." First, think about how much you may be part of the problem. If you could have helped your patrol plan a weekend, find a location to go, line up the adults, then maybe you need to talk to your SM about doing a better job, and give your troop another year -- this time with you doing everything you can do to really lead and generate an awesome program. If, on the other hand, you tried to do that, and adults kept shutting down your ideas. Then, maybe you should visit another unit. If that's the case, start finding out which troops are in your area and paying visits. You are also old enough to join a venturing crew, and venturers, if they have been awarded at least first class rank, may work on Eagle until they are 18. (The crew advisor takes on the role of SM, but the council still manages your paperwork just like it would for all other Eagle candidates.) A venturing crew is a lot different than a troop. So, you will have to talk to each advisor to see if they share interests you'd like to try. But, a lot of boys, in joining a venturing crew, continue being members of their troop. As a result they bring back ideas for activities that scouts enjoy. So, you have lots of options, and a lot of things to think about. Good scouting to you!

My argument has always been that EDGE reduces the process of instruction too far. Stosh's 7 points are excellent, but they, too, miss the referencing step. It could even be a step #8 in his paradigm: show where in a book or article your students can look up the material. Although, I would prefer it be towards #1 or #2 and involve actually having a student read the source material out loud. I'm not wasting this thread re-explaining why I think your teaching is incomplete if you haven't offered at least one good source that a student could call upon in your absence. I'm just reporting my observations. Obviously I have biases. Thus, in this case I'm quick to highlight the negatives, and cynical about any perceived positives. The one positive I could think of was our previous SM, who avoided public speaking until he had to give a minute at a court of honor, really became much more comfortable teaching the boys once he learned to remember those four steps -- plus my admonition to have some literature (even if it was the warning label on the box) for them to read.

The behavior in question is very rarely explained by gene expression. That's probably a good thing. With abortion on demand, well-meaning parents could attempt to "solve" this problem by a misguided application of eugenics.

So the second link says we're past the deadline. Do you have knowledge that the date's been extended?

You mean the method that we ranted about 6 years ago: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/6887-to-edge-or-not-to-edge/ http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/7204-edge-why-dictate-it/ http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/9495-if-edge-is-badwrongpoor-how-do-you-teach-youth-to-teac/ Well, our boys merged with a troop who had learned, taught, and lived by this method. My anti-EDGE disciples since graduated and have had no influence, in order to focus on my crew advisor position, I've had no skin in the game for a year. I'm not being critical. The boys are at troop meetings and activities with smiles. My point is, they are learning the EDGE method without enduring any rants of mine such as I've posted in the links above. This month the committee decided to use BoRs to test boys' ability to tie bowlines.* None of the scouts reviewed (5 I think) could tie them. One Life scout (who I mentioned in another thread), once he decided to actually master the skill, looked up the knot in a book. He read a reference, did what he just read in the handbook, then showed what he could do two days later for some adults. And, for fits and giggles, showed the crew what he could do and got a bunch of teens having fun tying knots. Now, I'm looking forward to what he'll do with some cooking references for his next merit badge, YUM! So, I continue to recommend scouters abandon EDGE and teach boys that their first step in mastering any skill must begin with a reference. *Those of you who are tempted to post about the "no testing during BoR" lecture: consider that, for all intents and purposes, these adults learned to convene BoRs via EDGE.

Well, I am indeed a wonderful scouter: introducing my youth to fire, water, ropes, tarps, magnetic fields, shrimp scampi and fettuccini Alfredo on a bed of fresh lettuce, Islamic philosophy and Christian orthodoxy, and tales of psychologists who don't like when the p-values I compute for them soar in the face their hypotheses. Yep, the kids - and no small number of parents - wind up wondering a lot about me. And I call on all of that, including conversations with folks far outside of mine or the youths' bubbles. Thus I read this forum. And thanks for posting. Nothing's off the table. I first learned, in detail, of gender dysphoria years ago from a clinical psychologist on behalf of a friend of a friend. And I moved from a place of "This guy wants to have his cake and eat it too." To "He's rolling the dice on a really costly bet, wish him luck." Through the course of everyday life I've since talked to a half a dozen young adults in similar situations, and. I've also talked to adults who perpetrated hoaxes. I'm pretty sure the two groups don't overlap much. I have also learned, from my profession, that psychopathology that was once defined for adults can, at times, also apply to children. E.g., once upon a time kids didn't get depression diagnoses, then when the symptoms and time course in kids was mapped out, it behaved exactly like the same disorder in adults (with some exceptions, like a higher risk of suicide attempt among depressed kids vs. depressed adults). Surprisingly, kids are people too. Now, with regard to an 8 year old who has a decade ahead before settling on sex transition or not, I don't have clear answers. Should an organization bend for such children, when it hasn't bent for others (i.e., girls/athiests who identify with boys/theists when it comes to hiking and camping)? Can BSA be that organization for boys, even the minority who may eventually want to become women? If so, Why can't GS/USA be the place where the minority of girls who want to be boys learn how they can be young women at the same time? On a larger scale, is our country helped or hurt by "making space" for such people? Is it helped or hurt if that space is exactly the space of the role to which they aspire?

Thanks, TT. I drew on ancient history to show that these sorts of people who defy the categories of reproductive roles are nothing new. What is new is the effort to give them the full fraternity/sorority of the role to which they aspire. @@Adamcp, if you don't want to use a bridge, feel free to shout from across the gap.

And that's even if we may think they are not worthy of the privileges of the sex they are trying to emulate.