MattR

The scouts love jokes like that. It's just spice to aid their imaginations.

It depends on the temps. "coffee is a block of ice" only means it got below freezing. How cold is cold? We can easily get below 0 and the lowest I've seen is -20. Others have seen colder. That said: I have a Coleman 4 season tent I got half off. It does a good job in the wind and shedding snow. I put a lot of effort into insulation on the bottom of the tent. A wool blanket on the bottom of the tent and padding with plenty of insulation. I currently use one or two thick closed cell foam pads with an insulated thermarest on top. I used to have a big agnes 3" insulated pad, which was great, but it sprung a leak and there's nothing worse than that. It was very cold that night. I have a Holubar down bag from way back when. It's wonderfully warm. There was a time when I used synthetic bags and the problem is I'd get tight spots when I slept on my side that let in a lot of cold. One solution to that is a second bag that's used as a blanket. If it's really cold I'll put an insulated nalgene with boiling water in it down around my thighs. Always put on dry long johns before going to bed (that means you need 3 sets). Don't wear anything more than long johns and socks in the bag. Put extra insulation on the outside of the bag as you need to warm the entire bag up. Clothing is the usual 3 layers (wicking, insulation, shell). Pay special attention to wrists, neck, and ankles (neck gator, long mittens, gators). I added a better foot bed to my snow boots and it makes a lot of difference. Obviously a hat. No cotton. Food is important, too. A mix of quick energy simple carbs as well as long energy fats and protein. I eat all the time but I do have 4 big meals (breakfast, lunch, and dinner at 4 and 9). This is one campout I frown on pancakes for the scouts. Too long and hard to cook and not much long term energy. Don't sweat it. Literally, do not sweat. Stay comfortably cool. Last item: positive attitude. So, the gear hasn't changed much. BTW, for you old guys, rather than take 20 minutes to put all this clothing on at night when I have to pee I bring an extra bottle. I know it was cold when that freezes by morning.

You can take just about any outdoor skill and wrap it up to be any type of event. Pioneering to make a catapult. Map and compass to save the prince and princess. Start a fire to "boil pots of oil" (don't really boil oil, though). Knots to storm a castle. It's all about imagination.

It depends on the scout and the scouts doing the electing. In my troop the scouts doing the electing are usually good about it not being a popularity contest so a scout not getting elected is not deemed the best scout. Then the question is why? Is he shy and quiet? Is he a bit too goofy and not quite mature enough? I've seen some scouts that had very different personalities when adults were not around. It could also be that the scout that won was just flashier and sounded more confident. I have seen this work against scouts that I thought would likely do a better job and making sure things get done. Anyway, this is a discussion to have with the scout to get him to think about to see if there's anything he needs to work on. Once in a while I have also asked other scouts why someone didn't get elected and I'm usually in for a surprise about the scouts' view of the one that didn't get elected. There are other ways to show leadership. Den chief is great for any shy or young scout. The cubs will look up to him. As @Eagledad says, find a way to lead his patrol or troop for a single event. Do that a couple of times and people's opinion might change for the next election. Ideally his PL should be helping him with this but usually not.

@TheFlyingMum, welcome. The CC kicked the autistic kid out of the troop? Why? What was the CC doing to the scout with Bell's Palsy? And who did what to the autistic scout? This just sounds over the top. I've had scouts on the autism spectrum in my troop and the other scouts were really good with them. So I know it can be done right.

It's all good. I can move it if you'd like but it really is a good message to the scouts. They can relate to this a lot more than talking about spokes in a wheel and teamwork.

The two dads that want to take their daughters' patrol camping but can't because no mom wants to join. The whole reasoning behind two deep leadership is that at least one of those adults will be, well, an adult. How about 3 deep leadership in this case and we'll just hope at least one dad will be okay. The BSA has never worried about two men being pedophiles with the boys but now they're worried about two men molesting girls. To me, this sounds odd.

I'm not sure if or why it was moved to Scoutmaster Minutes, but you have to admit it's a good story to tell a scout. There's nothing wrong with asking for help. There is something wrong with just hoping a problem will go away on its own. Swallow your pride and just ask. I do this all the time when I misplace my glasses, my keys, my phone, .... and my wife is more than willing to help me out.

We're talking about the same thing. I assumed it was under venturing. Anyway, it's like a crew only they focus on water craft. If you can find one that's we'll run then it sounds like your son might enjoy it. He can still be in the troop.

Do you mean a venturing ship? Could be the ticket.

@qwazse, what's the cost? For us, any Bechtel Jambo is North of $3500 so I won't even consider it.

I'm not sure what you mean. How does a business directly benefit any unit? Is your CO the PD? If so, go ahead and ask and just let them know you're fine if they say no. They may have money set aside for making donations and they might think it's a great idea.

The guy in our district did that and the scouts really enjoy it. He chucked all the MBs that were school work. They had welding and stuff like that. Some parents freaked out but the scouts enjoyed it. I don't think they went quite as far as what I think you've talked about before.

@gblotter, congratulations to your son. With 57 MBs he clearly enjoyed it so it was the right thing for him. I'm not saying advancement and adventure are mutually exclusive. There's just an imbalance. Advancement, as it stands, was an adventure for your son and that's great. It's not for most scouts. I'm suggesting either the advancement be modified to be more adventurous or that advancement have less emphasis. It's a challenge to fry an egg if you've never done it before. I hate to say this but I know plenty of scouts that have completed cooking MB and still can't cook a pancake. But they have described and discussed the food plate. My son was okay with MBs that involved doing things. The worst were the citizenship ones, mainly because he already saw it all in school.

I think there is a relatively easy way to help the boys. It may sound a bit of a cliche but focus on the patrol method. A patrol of boys challenging themselves is still within the realm of BSA's program. They will do what is natural for them, have a lot of fun, and learn what we really want them to do. On father's days I was talking to my son, who completed eagle nine years ago, about the BSA. We haven't talked about it much since then but he'd fit right in on this forum. His words: scouting should be the anti-school. If it's classwork it sucks, don't do it. Also, eagle is not nearly as important as all the adults make it out to be. Anymore, eagle is just plodding though a bunch of boring merit badges, which are mostly schoolwork. His best memories have nothing to do with advancement. They're about adventure, some legit and some not. They're about friends. They're about doing things. It's not that he looks down on eagle but he would have much rather had an environment where eagle is a consequence, not the goal it has turned into. When I was 16 years old I was one MB and an eagle project away from eagle and I just didn't even care about it. My best friend moved so I quit scouts. I told my son that and he said that's the way it should be. That's what boys want. It's not the boys that push for eagle, it's the parents, the scouters, the council and the BSA. People are worried that the addition of girls is going to wreck scouting for boys but the emphasis on schoolwork and advancement is what's doing it. Eagle has become the koolaid. And yet there's nothing that requires all of this. All it takes are some adults that are willing to support the patrol method, to explain to the scouts the options of what scouting is about, and to defend their decisions. I keep saying that fixing venturing, because it doesn't have the advancement aim, will fix scouts. That's where this discussion about what boys need should go.

Ask them what they want. I'm now our district camping chair. I've been trying to get a discussion going with the SMs to get them involved with coming up with camporees that help support them. I'm pushing patrol method but other than that I just want events that they want to come to. I've gone to troops and asked scouts for ideas. The response has been a surprise, as in they are surprised that anyone would ask. So far it's worked well.

Do I remember the adults garters and tabs? That was 45 years ago! I assume they were the same colors as the scouts' uniforms because the BSA uses the same uniforms for adults as scouts. Where are you in Argentina? My son was in Coronel Suarez, a small farm town North of Bahia Blanca, for a year as an exchange student. BTW, Skip and Ian will get email to read this thread because of the way I quoted their names.

Yes, it sure is a mess. But the tent still works? Here's a different view of this: The gear is not the goal. The goal is the scouts. In particular, the goal is for the scouts to learn how to take care of the gear. What I'd do at this point is ask the scouts how they did and whether or not they had problems. i.e., get them to see that it was not a good paint job. Then work with them to fix the problem, cheerfully. What they learn is that they can fix problems and there are adults that will help them do that. That's a win. As for the gear, it still works. The scouts that use it don't care. It's all good.

Hi @Falconidei, and welcome to the forum. Maybe the best people to ask are our friends from the UK, @Cambridgeskip, @ianwilkins. So, what were the original scout colors for uniforms? When I was a scout we had bright red garters.

Okay, let's all step back a bit. When we start talking about liberals, Trump and Obama we're well past trying to come to agreement. The OP was about parents gaming the system to have their kid be the first female eagle. Here's a solution to that problem: Don't number the first 1000 female eagles. Oh, and call the parents on the obvious gaming.

Those Iowans! They need to come up with their own city names. There are two cities I've lived in with duplicates in Iowa. Waterloo is the other. BTW, my wife is from Iowa and we drive to Dubuque multiple times a year. It's pretty along the Mississippi. Either way, that's a great story. Every scout needs good friends in a troop, or OA, in order to stick around. The friendships that started in cubs are great. An adult pointed out to me that a scout has to make friends by the time they're 14 or they won't stick around.

Something also that's amazing is that scouts in Colorado were reported in a local Iowa paper.

Is it possible to quantify this a bit? How often does a scout get permanent damage on a hike from mishandling a first aid situation? How often does a parent know enough to make a difference in such a situation? What training does an adult need to make a difference in such a situation and how many adults have that training? Standard first aid assumes there's an ambulance 5 minutes away. First aid MB is mostly a joke. If it weren't then I wouldn't have to renew my first aid in a week from now. Wilderness first aid touches on more issues. So how many adults have taken wilderness first aid and how many of the two deep leadership, on a hike, have done this? All of these numbers suggest that, for one, this is a very unlikely scenario, and for two, an adult won't make much difference. All in all, if someone is going to sue then they're going to do it whether an adult was there or not. But let's look at the benefit of letting scouts go on their own. I've had discussions with scouts about what they're going to do if things go bad. This is not a normal discussion with a teenager. They know it's for real. It's not pretend leadership with the adults off in the wings ready to jump in. The scouts take this very seriously. It's one of the best experiences a scout can have. Real responsibility. This is an adventure for the scouts. Every single scout that has led a group on a hike has learned something useful. Rather than a blanket rule about assuming 2 adults will solve every problem I'd much rather see some form of training for SM's on how to ensure the scout motto is applied in this scenario.

It seems there are a few assumptions here about what it means for two adults to be at an activity. If the activity is cooking a meal then does that mean there needs to be 2 adults in each camp site? That's ridiculous. So there needs to be 2 adults on the camp property? That makes more sense. What if the property is a national forest? My point is until someone starts describing in some detail what this means you may as well not read too much into it. It really gets down to trust, as it always has been.

@Sentinel947, you can run but you can't hide. Anyway, good luck and thanks for your help.