John-in-KC

It's not the training: It's effective oversight of adults, by other adults, and by the youth, that makes YP effective. I'll cry now, for the young men of this Troop. They've come to maturity early, by default.

This looks far more transparent than many of the camp closures we've seen on this list. Bottom line: You have to take care of your property and keep it in code. That looks to be the single biggest challenge here.

gwd, Let him be him. There's nothing in ACP&P that says you cannot do this. Now, you cannot be on his BORs... but you can't anyway One of my best Eagle Palm boards as a member was at camp, in the later evening, just talking under the stars. I opened the board completely backward from the usual method. Two simple questions: What's going on in your life? What's on your mind? Katey Bar the Door!! There was a bunch of pent-up questions he'd not asked ... I don't think we adjourned until midnight; but when we did, he had some better tools to find his trail. I look at Palm boards differently than I do T-L. (Eagle is a completely different beast). My experience, as shown above ... lots of young people need some space to ask some tough questions of the adults.

B, That's what the Troop Scribe is for. I cycled each Patrol through on a 2 week turnaround x N patrols in the Troop. I used the second side of paper that had hit our office recycle bin. He'd get with the Scout, pencil the changes, and give them to me. Events? He gave me the checkoff list he kept at departure assembly (or upon arrival), and after poking the event in, I used the databases drop-downs to update it. Took me about 30 minutes most weeks. Didn't worry about uniform inspections and some of the other stuff. I've really had Scouts with bad records at Council. Because of some of the things our Council does, knowing a kid had made Star or Life MATTERED. I'm glad to be out of it, but I was glad to be doing it! Hope that makes sense.

As long as I am... 1) Dressed in wool 2) NOT DRIVING I truly enjoy winter and snow. Don't enjoy ICE, though. Had a crash landing a couple years back where all my body weight landed on 1 sq inch of my knee. The recovery reminded me I'm not 20-something anymore.

Eagle92, You've not seen some of the advancement abortions I've seen from our Council clerical staff in the past decade. ScoutNet may be the BSA database of record, but G-I-G-O applies, and if my unit is keeping accurate local records, I can reduce the garbage. Troopmast has a place in the stuff a Troop uses.

What I'd like is for everyone in Congress, on both sides of the aisle, to stop using their ideologies... ... and instead, start using their heads ... Want to reduce the amount of "drive-by" malpractice? LOSER PAYS. PLAINTIFF MUST GO TO TRIAL. Want to spread the risk? Single National Actuarial Pool. We're all in it, and make it the only pool health insurers can use. Want to spread the risk? Require States, as a condition of receiving Medicaid funds, to implement MUST HAVE health insurance. I've said enough on Afghanistan in other threads.

To go on any trail at Philmont you will need to do the full Trek version of their physical. There are height/weight guidelines which are ironclad. Philmont is 6600 feet at base camp. Oxygen is much less than at sea level; we lowlanders just are not used to the delta. As you noted, there are specific trails you can go on at PTC. Two things: Even in the height of summer, the overnights can dip down to 40F. Your down bag is not inappropriate to take! Also, like most BSA mattresses, the ones at PTC are sanitary supportable. Bring plenty of mattress pad stuff if you don't like your body sweating on plastic.

First, Direct flight options to Denver or Albuquerque are possible. Amtrak? Fly to Chicago, take 3/4 (the Southwest Chief) to Raton. Book yourselves, if you can afford it, a Deluxe Bedroom (wide lower, not horribly narrow upper, 6 foot sofa and an easy chair, essential facilities (including a shower) in the room. With Amtrak sleeper, meals are included. I've done 3/4 KC-LA, but my most frequent use is 5/6 (the California Zephyr) Omaha-Reno. The other Amtrak option is NEC Boston-NY Penn Station, then 48/49 (the Lake Shore Limited) to Chicago, then 3/4 to Raton. Allow yourselves slack; there are motels in both Raton and Cimarron. I've driven KC to Philmont twice. Both times, the only use I had for the wheels was storage. There is plenty to do at Philmont. I tend to spend my time in the craft shop, tooling belts. I've done two for my son, and two for me. Cimarron isn't bad, and there's always just kicking back in a camp chair and letting the world go by. Enjoy PTC.

Update: Polanski Is Transferred to Undisclosed Location http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/arts/04arts-POLANSKIISTR_BRF.html Polanski moved from prison to undisclosed location for 'security reasons' http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/polanski-moved-from-prison-to-undisclosed-location-for-security-reasons.html Polanski to Leave Swiss Jail, Head for House Arrest http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aHzcOjS0gHsE Roman Polanski's release secured by Nicolas Sarkozy: Sister-in-law http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/11/28/2009-11-28_roman_polanskis_release_secured_by_nicolas_sarkozy_sisterinlaw.html ( cynicism ) Anyone care to wager on how long it will be before Mr Polanski is again safe in France? ( / cynicism )

E, Understood, and that's part of the reason I'm looking at moving the planned giving to the scholarship endowment instead of the general. I also have some significant plans for memorials when the time comes for my folks. They have a broader focus than just Scouting.

Reading through all this, the common sense message to me is "If in doubt, visit with your COR and with your Chartered Partner's CPA/attorney." I've successfully deducted trips to Philmont Training Center, including my mileage ... but I didn't claim EagleSon's Mountain Trek. I've successfully deducted my mileage to and from work weekends at Scout Camp ... but not the hand-drill motor which sees as much use at home as at camp. Dad WAS an IRS agent and a CPA. More than once, he's told me that the computer takes your numbers and audits them. Your return is scored. If the score is high enough or a particular area shows interest, you're going to be audited, either in whole or in part. Vicki, good to see you. Will email you!

This is a tough one. I'm single again. I've allocated a portion of my estate, via a trust plan, to the Council general endowment. I may move that in the coming years: Our Council does a superb job of retaining camp staff through giving them higher education scholarships. That's an area where the money is being set aside for the future.

gwd, Now comes the tough part, which is actually finding the replacement. That's the Committee's job, but they do need to be about it.

Our District: The parent has to be ON STAFF ... OR... The parent has to be a walking leader and on-property. Period. Our District has run as low as 600 registered youth this decade, and as high as 800. We run either a 4 or 5 day program. We allocate our Tot Lot 2 adults and two J-staff, to care for about 20 youth. If the parent is STAFF, there is no fee. If the parent is a walking leader, the fee is equal to one day of camp.

In general, I'm in broad agreement. I've seen bullies in action though. This has a potential for life-long behavior. It needs to be worked, hard. After talking to the young man, ask to visit with Mom and Dad. They need to know what you're seeing. They need to be part of the solution. Remember, in a typical month, a SM has eyes on a young man 56 hours or so... Parents, around 200, and teachers, around 200. I specifically agree with SR540Beaver: The young man has to buy in. That isn't always easy. Talk with the SPL, talk with others who attend his school. Make sure you have a good snapshot of the complete young man ... I don't think it'll be different, but this is a time to be sure.

My only comment is if food and going hungry are issues, then maybe SPL needs to be encouraged to move menu deadlines earlier in the process, with a quick PLC after the menu deadline to review menus for nutritional sufficiency. (in other words, no comments about "that's not how I would have done that" ... but comments "hey, you're shy on fruits and veggies here" or "are you sure this is enough calories to get your patrol through the day?" Mind, this is other youth saying this... SPL, ASPL, QM, and PLs... not the adults.

Kevin, there's gonna be a lot of people thinking about you on your EBOR night and ECOH day!!

A startup from my experience takes a strong Scoutmaster. If possible, it should also beg, borrow and steal some older youth for the first year or so. These youth need to be part of the startup process, and should receive fieldcraft and leadership training before receiving the first youth. Then, bring on the first class of Weebs inbound, such they have some leadership to role model after. I've seen a Troop do 11 year olds on startup with no older youth. The learning curve for those kids is huge, and there are lots of tears of frustration, because generally they don't have the skills or the maturity to to fully cooperate in a small society. My thoughts. Brent, I wish you well in this endeavor. If nothing else, get a strong TG and a strong QM to start things off.

I've learned that half-full is the better approach ... still allows room for the service/conservation projects, but just a more upbeat approach.

H Roe Bartle, Scout Executive for Kansas City and later Mayor of Kansas City: "If you give them great program, they will come." That was uttered over a half century ago and it's still true today. Our Lodge has a year-round program at the Lodge level: Winter is Banquet season. Spring is induction weekends (2 of them), but there is crackerbarrel Saturday night and COPE/Climbing, black powder shooting, and other activities Sunday. After the camping season there's another induction weeekend as well as Fall Fellowship ... and the only work done then is cooking! Chapters need to be active as well. I've seen chapter bowling nights, chapter campouts, even chapter clinics on various subjects. I've seen a chapter organize its own Scouting for Food drive. Encourage the youth members to plan and do stuff. The more they plan, the more they do, the more fun they'll have. The ethic is Cheerful service ... not chained service

Ed, it'd be real simple: One advancement report, moving a youth through 2 or more ranks on the same day. That's a simple software user warning in Internet Advancement, and a "don't accept this" for paper copy advancement reports submitted to the Registrar. That's the technical stuff. As far as advancement itself goes, if National includes a line in the 2010 ACP&P or in Requirements, it's a done deal. Period. Hal, I'd ask three questions: - What is the National policy this procedure implements? - If you get the deer in the headlights stare, then Q2: What are you going to do when the first appeal for rank denied by the Council rolls in? - If you still get the deer in the headlights stare: What are you going to do when Billy Jones, whose Dad is Jack Jones of the Washington Times, writes an article about the Scout Council denying an advancement for bureaucratic reasons? If he can answer Q1, the other two are moot. Shortridge, back in the dark ages of the late 60s, when I was a youth member, I remember T being about knots, 2 being about hiking, and 1 being about camping. You could not get things signed off for 2 or 1 until you were T, ditto 1 until you were 2. You did learn camping and cooking though (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I said a couple things earlier in the thread, and I think I need to go into them a little more: 1) Women as BSA leaders (beyond Cub Scouting Den Mother) came about because there weren't enough men stepping up to leadership. So far as I know, that is true, and it dates back into the early 80s at the latest. At this point, we have a 20+ year history of women serving the adult side of Scouting. There are great women ASMs and SMs out there, just as there are great men. There are weak women, just as there are weak men. 2) Are women good enough to serve? Certainly. That's not even an issue. Anyone who tries to make it one is full of it. 3) Does it matter? Only if we want to be as sexist as GSUSA (see erickelly's post above... if that's not sexist, what is?). Frankly, I don't see GSUSA being much of a model for anything BSA does.

EagleSon will recharter in his Crew as a youth member, and under Venturings rules will remain a youth member to next recharter, but after that, he's an adult... through and through.

Ed, No, it's not forbidden, but a Scoutmaster who lets it happen is forgetting that there are constraints on the citizenry even in the adult population. I do believe a PLC should look at things they do and be supportive of some of the big activities of the MB program (we're going to build our next six months campouts around the long rides for Cycling MB, or we're going to have a campout at the capital city campground, so we can tour the State Capitol for Citizenship in the Nation MB), but MBs routinely as program? Wrong answer.