John-in-KC

From my experience (and at this point I am simply a working volunteer deep in two different operating committees)... When the District Chairman is a strong community guy, respected in the local Chamber of Commerce, knowledgable about Scouting, and someone who can mentor (often young) DE's about life in the real world of business, Scouting support happens in a District. When the District Commissioner is a strong Scouting guy, respected by the Cubmasters and Scoutmasters, knowledgable about Scouting people in the district, and someone who can support the District Chair and DE in the real world of Scouting on the ground, Scouting program above Troop happens in a District. Even though we are a suburban District, we're blessed that our District Director is "one of us," living in the District. He, the Chair, and the Commish form a very good team, adn life as a volunteer is pretty darn fun these days. That will probably change soon enough, since there's always someone ending their tenure...

Back in the day (1960s), once a year the Pack would have a uniform inspection. Den by Den, our Cubmaster and another adult would look at each of us, using the uniform inspection sheet. If we got a perfect 100, we were allowed to sit on the stage floor of our school auditorium (Pack meeting place), with our feet dangling. It was pretty cool to earn 100 as I recall.

Thoughts: 1) This person used his positions of authority to do kids. Period. It's not just that he's a leader in BSA. He's pond scum, and he finally got found. 2) The Greater Saint Louis Area Council ... Sigh. I hope Vicki finds this thread, that's her Council. She might be able to give us some input on the ground. I certainly hope that Professionals and Commissioner service are engaging to give the Chartered Partner some support. 3) How do we monitor leaders? Darn if I know... This just demonstrates that we must all be accountable for who, when, and how we interact with the youth. BTW, here is a link to the local newspaper article, bylined: http://www.dailyjournalonline.com/articles/2010/01/07/news/doc4b45e061774ac376180591.txt

Ken, Barry, BadenP, and emb have the right of this. One, and only one volunteer matters in terms of District and Council governance, as regards any one Pack, Troop, Team, or Crew: The Chartered Organization Representative. The COR is the interface between the local council and the chartered partner. He has a vote. He can ask for information. Remember, also, there is one COR per chartered partner, not one per unit. To run this matter to ground, start by asking your COR.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

"The safety net is in place for women with children...WIC, Medicaid, health cards, USDA food stamps, cash grants, Section 8 housing." The Nanny-State, which we decry so much in our units (How Many Threads about Adult-Run Troop Method) is epitomized in this comment! This church is trying to get back to where American society should be: Local people, not government, are the safety net. Our Aims are character, citizenship, and fitness. Our program vehicle is the outdoors. Don't confuse the two. Anyone have insights on how the Baptists, with their AWANA organization or Royal Rangers, handle youth working with social ministries these days? I know that one kid in my parish did his ELSP refurbishing the social ministry building on our property ...

Kathy, Since GSUSA uses a centralized management system for units, vice the license/charter system of BSA, please can you expand a little on your post about what GS Troop leaders should do in this situation? TIA

Where is everyone going over the top with all this??? I look at flyingfish's OP. I see a church which has elected an element of social ministry in a small town USA. Their leaders ... and remember, they are the Chartered Partner, decided, I trust in prayer, to meet a need God had sent them. Their Troop, remember, the Chartered Partner is the licensee of record, is asked to step up to the plate. Sounds like that's going to happen. Seems to this retired soldier, and Veteran, and son of a PW who defended Corregidor, that this is all OK. The church is doing what I'd want it to... getting the social safety network away from government and back into the hands of local people. It's wholly reasonable for the SM, CC, COR, and IH to sit down and chalk talk things through. Be Prepared is our motto. Seems to me some folks are forgetting the Scout Law and the Citizenship Aim of Scouting ... for that matter forgetting the Adult Association Method. Who here doesn't think kids can learn lessons from people who're on the tough side of life.

Lisa, Indeed, you are at the right window of opportunity. Good hunting on this!! I see, though, the reason: Our youth are intangible assets. Our gear represents property; it's tangible. Adults can see, touch, feel, inspect and criticize it. You'll need a youth member (or two, nothing wrong with having multiple kids have QM in a larger troop) who is committed to learning about maintaining stuff. When you find him, you'll have a winner.

For years I had my Cub books. Mom and Dad were deeply involved in my brothers Scouting, and my own. Lots (but not all) were signed off by them. The advancement system between Cubs and Boys is not parallel. Never has been. Where Boy Scouts (properly) discourage MBs in Troop meetings, I've gone with EagleSons Den (in the day) to bike ride against the Bicycling sports and activity pin. I guess I'm of two minds about this ... are we going to diminish the Families portion of Cubbing?

I'm one of the early posters, and have followed this thread for months. SSS, I agree with you. If we stop posting to this thread, it will sink below the fold until Ms Summer gets the final word back from National. We never will know the whole truth. We do the best with the information we're given. I believe one thing: If Ms Summer's boy did not understand that actions have long-term consequences before, he certainly does now.

There's a ton of education for both Troops with this. In case of BSA unit, SM/CC should visit with COR/IH and discuss any needed safety issues. Simple prudence.

Coals of the campfire, Stosh... On winter camps, 2 adults rotated through the night keeping a heating fire going ... we're a tad south of you, and for our kids, 10 is cold, and 0 is **** cold.

One time a patrol left the cast skillet out overnight (this was a COLD winter's camp, I think the overnight was +5 or so. Next day, they try to do sausage. That skillet never got hot enough under their LW stove; we finally let them use the one big burner we grownups had brought after we saw one of them trying to eat raw pork. Appropriate food, appropriate gear.

One quick thought... Something the youth will have to develop in this conversion is an ethic of initiative. When the adults are giving away the ownership, the youth have to be willing to accept it. Expect to use "thorns and roses" a LOT...

"A Scout does a Good Turn daily." Every Good Turn has elements of helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, trustworthy, loyal, cheerful and obedient in them. Now Brave, Clean, Reverent and Thrifty may need some thinking, but part of why we're here is to work on minds full of mush. We're making Mount Everest out of a little hill here, folks. Talk with the kid. Have his handbook in hand when you do these particular SM conferences. Whether you jot down T, L, H, F, C, K, O, Ch, Th, B, Cl, R or 1-12, jot down something so you and he have a memory aid. The requirement doesn't call for the Spanish Inquisition ... take a couple youth aside every meeting, talk to them about this. When they've hit 4 that you've bought into for T or 2 or 1, sign off... If you're a big Troop, have the ASM keeping a weather eye on the particular Patrol do this. If you give it to SPLs, ASPLs and TGs, you're going to have to train them on your expectations first.

Well, Guy, you asked ... So here's a thread for you to share where you are, and what your vision is of your destination... One decision you'll have to make is how far the autonomy of the youth runs. There are elements in making the program happen which are adult in nature. So, go for it...

Guy, Nothing wrong with your events; the trick is to put the bug in your SPLs ear so he thinks it's his idea...

Oh, by the way, from collective painful experience: Couples should not be combinations of: COR+CC COR+CM/SM/ADV CC+CM/SM/ADV COR+Treasurer CC+Treasurer CM/SM/ADV+Treasurer Nothing in writing, but keeps appearances of conflicts from raising their heads.

You work to bring more parents in, by asking them to help with things. Start with small stuff ... snacks to the den meeting, or driving to an event. Then ask them to do slightly bigger things, like coordinate a Pack visit to the fire station, or maybe participation in the Memorial Day/Independence Day parade. Maybe Mary is an IT professional, and you ask her to do systems maintenance, or help with online recharter or internet advancement... Then you set the hook and ask them to join the Committee or the leadership side. It's all about people, relationships , and friendships aborning

At the same time, I've had Eagle BORs where one of the topics of the Scout Law meandered around to dating and relationships. It might not be a bad thing if you know the makeup of the board to go "Think about what you'd say in a BOR if you're confronted with 'How do you think the Scout Law will apply to your intimate relationships as you move through college and think about marriage?'"

You're current. If I read this thread correctly, there appears to be a battle of bureaucracy. Why does that not surprise me?

Welcome to life in the land of liability insurers and litigation attorneys driving business methods. While I see a need to train us volunteers, I also see much of this training as "protecting the brand name." What I don't see is any rigorous learning analysis to tell folks "how we got here." I've been an adult trainer since 1987, when I certified in training instruction for the Army. I had access not just to my syllabus, but also to all manner of support materials, including notes from the Course Author. We don't have that in Scouting. My current observation is too much training is done at a drone, without passion for the subject. The trainer has to care about his material. Finally, as so many others have said, now training has to make it into ScoutNet. Period.

There are registered positions for folks in units. For that matter, there are registered positions for folks at District and Council level. If you happen to be on the Committee side, you are either a member at large, or you and the Chair have agreed that you will do some things to support the youth program. Of course, back in the day, they weren't PORs. There were PLs, ASPLs, SPLs, and holders of troop office by warrant.

HiLo... Someplace along the way, faith became a key tenet for membership in BSA. That's why the Declaration of Religious Principle is now enshrined in the documents of the Corporation that is the BSA National Council. The VFW and the American Legion have been willing to pick up dropped charters, indeed their National bodies tell the local posts to be Chartered Partners when other folks drop Scouting. That said, they are also strong on the values of America, and that includes faith. BSA opens the door, this support may also evaporate. Within the National Council, there is a major Committee of Scouting: The Relationships Committee. These are the folks who tend after the Chartered Partners ... the Religious Relationships Committee is a subset of this. Senior level professionals and volunteers work these committees; I've met some of them at PTC. I'm not smart enough to know which way things will go.

E92, I have friends who have commercial green woolens which they've applied the patch to. My next jacket will be from the folks who supply Northern Tier. I've no objection to offering both, but discard wool, the most practical warming material God created, for coke bottles? NWIH. Wool is renewable. Plastic uses petroleum.