John-in-KC

No, it happened in the Viet Nam protest era of 68-71, at least in California. In spite of the fact we were backpacking 50 miles in the high Sierra every summer, we were ostracized for being junior military. Uniforms and structure were not wanted, thank you.

Beavah wrote, in part: Buddy system vs. stupid convoying. Balance and prudence, eh? Balance and prudence are what make for safety, not policy. I like this idea, a lot. I also like the concept of prepping for a trip, especially the first drive to a new location. The other Godsend of the modern era is a cell phone. If someone gets between a rock and a hard place, the right-seater can call another car in the unit. I also believe in Tail-Gunner Charlie. He or she is the designated back end of the unit. The task at hand is to make sure all other unit wheels are not left behind. That other car in the unit from the paragraph above? Tail-Gunner Charlie is the car to call!

www.weather.gov National weather service website. http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/simpletime.html US Naval Observatory master clock www.biblegateway.com The Holy Word in multiple, multiple translations www.scouting.org www.facebook.com www.google.com No one has shown me a better search engine yet www.schwab.com No one has shown me a better online brokerage yet

1) I think you and your DE (or your DC/ADC) need to pay that "Annual Service Call" on this Crews' IH/COR. No matter what the Advisor says, there are things which are charter related. In your Council, training of direct contact leaders is charter related. Explain to the IH/COR that unit visits are part of Scoutings' service to the charter agreement! 2) That said, the UC is supposed to be a friend of the unit. If the principal direct contact leader (Advisor) doesn't want you around, it's time to kick the visitation level up a notch ... to your ADC or even the DC. Maybe you're just not a fit for the unit. Lord knows I've seen that happen in my District often enough. 3) If this unit is conducting business in such a way that activities are not safe, then your DE has to decide is this charter worth the effort? That decision belongs to him, his FD, and the SE. What your Council does not need is a rogue unit which risks a lawsuit (and the defense costs, and that first $M of self-insurance from the liability) against the chartered partner and the Council after something bad happens. 4) OTOH, if the unit is conducting safe operations, then maybe best to let the sleeping dog lie. 5) As others have said, no requirement for the unit to have co-ed leadership. G2SS has requirements for activities (particularly overnights), but not a charter requirement. Now, while as Oak Tree says, co-ed leadership is part of the self-assessment, it's not part of the centennial quality contract: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/513-190-2_wb.pdf It's all a judgment call ... work with your ADC/DC on this. I'd specifically not recommend talking about this unit in public at District Committee. This is time for quiet, businesslike conversations over coffee, brainstorming an approach that might work.

Gunny hit the key point: Local artwork. I understand there are no more copyrighted logo BSA stuff ... but there are lots of individual troop pieces of artwork out there. Just run googleimages to find them. On and off, I've had a couple of BSA polos. I just can't imagine being excited about what National can produce as opposed to Councils and units.

To answer your question, this one is not local lore. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss12.aspx In boldface, thus BSA program guidance: Do not travel in convoy (see "Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings," No. 2). Makes further reference to: Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings 1) Two-deep leadership: Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities, even those including parent and child, require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. 2) During transportation to and from planned Scout outings, 3) Meet for departure at a designated area. 4) Prearrange a schedule for periodic checkpoint stops as a group. 5) Plan a daily destination point. A common departure site and a daily destination point are a must. If you cannot provide two adults for each vehicle, the minimum required is one adult and two or more youth membersnever one on one.

Thoughts: 1) If I saw scientists in Copenhagen right now instead of diplomats and politicians ... with a report-out which politicians agreed to listen to in their offices, I'd be more comfortable. What I see is a lot of posturing by politicians instead. 2) There are ways to displace carbon in the energy cycle. Geothermal (this old rock underneath us is pretty hot, and can heat lots of water to spin lots of turbines), solar, and yes, wind ... all can do something to displace carbon. 3) Nuclear? Who is drinking the Kool-Aid here? Have we all forgotten Chernobyl and Three Mile Island? http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm I know there is debate about how these pictures got taken, that they were taken is indisputable. There are consequences to nuclear energy ... and those consequences will take millenia to resolve, even in a safely operated environment.

When the Government of Japan, over the signature of the Emperor, publicly offers reparations to its WWII prisoners of war, my father will stand down. The die-off of his generation is 85% or more complete, and the above has not happened yet. Compared to what Japan did, what Colonel Robert SS Baden-Powell did is again, "So What, Who Cares?" I for one do not.

BDPT000, We agree to disagree. My father earned the Bronze Star and Purple Heart in captivity. To this day, he will not buy Japanese auto brands. To this day, his use of the term includes two different seven letter words as adjectives. He's delighted Little Boy and Fat Man were used; he'd not have minded if all Japan had been turned into glass. Other men from his era were my SM, ASMs, Committee Chairs, and so on. They felt this way about their enemies, period. They told their war stories at campfires as we backpacked through the Sierra Nevada.

Two items: - SM conference with ASPL on the meaning of BRAVE ... he needs to know it's important to come forward over things like having his car vandalized. - Otherwise, it's time to remit any monies on deposit for this youth, notify the Council the Chartered Partner will no longer accept the youth member under their charter, and then ... send a letter to the parents of the former member ... bar him from your property. There is something way out of whack if a kid does not understand vandalism is not even acceptable conduct in polite society, let alone Scouting.

ScoutNut... That only applies when the Co-op is local to you. Nearest store to me is 250 miles away, in St Louis. Rest assured neither Cabela's nor Bass Pro (both local) are anywhere as deep into LNT as REI. Now, if you want to learn how to use a deep fry turkey burner...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

One that's always good on a spring or summer evening is the 10 mile bike ride! It's a chance for them to do a qualifying ride for Cycling, and the youth pretty typically are glad to be away from the meeting room. It's even better if there's root beer floats at the end of the ride. Another one I've seen is "Dutch Oven Dessert Chef" competition. Give Patrols an identical hamper of ingredients. 90 minutes later, they share desserts. Patrols cannot eat their own dessert. Ballots determine best patrol (ballots are customized ... the Owls cannot vote for themselves, ditto the Bears, the Foxes...)

Brent, Think about how most of these kids are being educated in grades 5-12: COMPARTMENT ... brief transistion ... COMPARTMENT ... brief transition ... COMPARTMENT ... LUNCH ... COMPARTMENT ... brief transition ... COMPARTMENT ... go home. Their education is not holistic; they generally do not get to describe their day. The thinking of planning hours to days ahead is a skill which has to be learned that is the antithesis of the method of operation they actually use. I agree with you in your description, but I think the challenge is bigger than you describe it

Double post, sorry...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I think Beavah has the right of it. The organization would be decimated by volunteers, donors, and families taking to the exits. The youth, the volunteers, and the dollars would have to be replaced. In an economic up-time, the cycle would be relatively fast to deal with. In a down-time, these boards would see even more sales of property, not to mention elimination of professional staff. In my neck of the woods, certainly the LDS units would say thank you much, we're done. Community of Christ (old RLDS) is also significant locally. I suspect they'd be gone as well.

Except L--->E, a SM can develop and implement any position needed for the healthy running of a Troop. If 2 QMs gets the job done, fine. If 2 Scribes, fine. If a webmaster is needed (before the new HB), fine. I'd be more comfortable with the PLC saying "Following positions will be unfilled at this time." That said, A Scout is Reverent. Please tell me who is covering down on the Chaplain's Aide position, and how he's doing it???...

Frankly, I like unit shirts. Our design for our T-shirt came from the youth. I've seen lots of good designs for T-shirts from units. I've even seen units that used performance shirts for their T-shirts. I'm not sure National needs to be in the T-shirt business...

1) Meetings are only a building block, the youth time in the field (Outdoors Method) is the dominant feature of program. 2) What kinds of skills inter-patrol competitions are you doing? Do an "iron skillet chef" night. Do a first-aid round robin. In better weather, go to the park; use GPS to set up a simple orienteering course. 3) Use PLC as mentoring time to demonstrate putting life into dull boring meetings.

So What? Who Cares? I certainly do not. EagleSon, in the 7th grade, took my Dad's oral history as part of a unit on the Holocaust. Dad told my son about the atrocities the Japs committed regularly on their prisoners of war. I cannot remember where ... there is a note passed between the US and Jap embassies in Switzerland in early 1942, discussing handling of prisoners of war. Japs said they were not signatories to the conventions and did not intend to honor them is the short version. I suspect B-Ps prisoner was executed far more humanely than some of the literal decimations observed by my Dad ... including decapitations by the Japs of American prisoners. War? Civilized? It was a fantasy hundreds of years ago, when a wound was generally as good as a kill (the poor sonofa##### was probably going to lose a limb to gangrene if not his life to same), it's a fantasy now. As Sherman said, "It is all Hell." Sadly, the state of this world means there are miscreants for whom the State using the last arguement of kings is the only way out. I'm with SctDad, E92 (especially his last point), and Ed.

I like your comment in the other thread B, from R&R ... the one where the Corporation itself defines Active. I also like your approach ... work with the young people. Sometimes I think we take Patrol Method and hoist it on the sacred altar ... (just as people do uniforms, Advancement, etc) ... when Adult Association is also a method. Removing a youth member should be the last resort... Lord have mercy. We're talking about BOYS. Our youth need development. That inlcudes have mature, reasoned, caring responses shown them day in and day out. Thanks for the writings, both here and on the other Active thread

Two comments: 1) I like Brent Allens'. 2) Be careful of what you ask for ... you just might get it. Several years ago, there was lots of consternation in the field (meaning us volunteers) about what "Active" meant. Well, the consternation got to National, and in 2006-7, National gave us an answer. Now we have to deal with it. Period. Sometimes it's best to let the sleeping dog lie.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Since I'm a UC in one of my hats, I've made some of the "lost boy" phone calls. Trust me, the Scoutmasters, CCs and CORs in my district would kill our DE team if they signed kids back up without paying unit fees as well as national fees...

If you feel uncomfortable, cc the parents. If you feel uncomfortable, don't trim the email. Keep it intact. What data streams will look like 10 years from now is anyones' guess. I don't text, but I use FB and email. Kids text, a lot!

E92, My point is diluting the Adult Association Method element of the MB program. The youth know Mrs. Smith. Why not encourage them to meet someone new, someone they've not encountered before. The Scoutmaster is the Gatekeeper. He/she is supposed to have some knowledge about what makes the boy tick, and who has the best fit amongst counselors. One size does not fit all. Why in-troop? If a SM goes to District Roundtable, and breaks bread at various OA functions, he gets to know the people in his community. He should know people already, and be looking for folks who may not want to serve Scouting beyond being MBC, but are willing to MBC? So I ask again: Why must it be just the Treasurer?

Personal Management... well... you're gonna have to take that one from our troop treasurer. Knot Head: WHY? Merit Badges are about Adult Association as much as they are advancement. Are you telling us there is NO COUNSELOR in your District who is willing to work with a youth who's not "in house" to a particular Troop? Are you telling me there are no attorneys, CPAs, or bankers who are willing to give time to help raise youth by counseling merit badges?