John-in-KC

My two cents: Anyone who chooses not to be pro-active in helping others finds paths to success doesn't understand leadership, and does not deserve to be a leader. That applies in industry, the professions, the Armed Forces, Scouting, ANYWHERE.

What I do not see in this thread is "What do the area youth want?" If the HS theater group wants to do Venturing ... then a Crew focused on the outdoors is utterly out of place. Get into the HS. There's an interest survey National can supply. Figure out what the youth want, then tailor the offering to them. They'll show more interest if they are the ones making the most basic decision of "why are we here?"

5 youth is the chartering number for any Scouting program, unless chartered to an LDS Ward. For LDS, the chartering number of youth is 3.

Long story short... My perception from your post is the Chapter and Lodge are unable to sell the added value of the Order to the Troops. That's a red flag that the Chapter will have big problems in 2-3 years, if not now. Stop the email. Get the list of registered Scoutmasters from your DE. Go and have friendly cups of coffee with each of them. Take a DVD player. Hopefully your Lodge has a 5 minute show of the adventurous/fun things they do throughout the year. Use it. You have to sell that the Lodge adds value to the Scout and to his unit, or you won't get your teams in for an election. PERIOD. PS: I hope you have a youth Arrowman who has a passion for marketing; he can do a lot of the sales job under your supervision. Even so, depending on the Scoutmasters you have, he may not get entry to see a particular SM unless you are supplying some adult-adult armtwisting.

Lisa, Challenge him, but at the end of the day, if he wants to age out without Eagle, he's going to age out without Eagle. I will simply say this: When college campus touring his HS junior year, two different professors in two different programs got more attentive instantly when my son said, "I am an Eagle Scout."

Know the faith mix of the families in your Pack, Troop, or Crew. If the faith mix is reasonably homogenous, celebrate. If the faith mix is mixed... - and you have a Cub Pack, do what KC9DDI said. - and you have a Boy Scout Troop, consider not a party, but a campfire where different communities talk about their traditions. - and you have a Venturing Crew, have a roundtable talking about faith. Just don't try to do "one size fits all."

I was not thrilled about TGOL/PD when I took the course. I am not thrilled about it now. I would venture that 98% of Course Directors/Program Directors do not have the true training to effectively manage this Hobson's Choice styled "game." As for Basementdweller's comment: Scouters are not as selfless as they appear on the surface.......this GAME exposes them for the dirt bags they really are. I counter with... Romans 3:22b-23 --- "There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ..." We're all dirtbags.

It's Merlyn. He's stirring the pot. I choose not to play his game. Do not bother responding, Merlyn, I won't even look at this thread again. As Cambridgeskip said, consider the source...

What Beavah basically did was validate the UK Model. I like his plan. Too bad the folks in Irving won't buy it...

What I use: http://tinyurl.com/6m5cjma Or, if you don't trust clicking on a tinyurl, you can navigate to Cabela's.com, go to casual pants, and search on their 7 pocket Hiker II pants...

For me, the issue is parallel completion of basic skills. You cook for the patrol once, wham, bam, all your cooking requirements are done. I remember learning to cook in the field. It took me a while to get it right. In fact, the de facto standard was the Patrol had to eat my cooking and, if not like it, at least not out and out reject it, or get the trots from it. Yes, my Troop used car camping ... with old fashioned canvas Baker tents ... a lot back in 1968-72 or so. We also backpacked. I was capable by 14 of living in a "house on my back" to quote Colin Fletcher, I was capable of bivuoacing at a site for a week. I'm not saying our methods today are better or worse: I like the structure in the advancement plan for S-L-E. A kid who makes first class will almost certainly get Star 4 months later. That's a retention advantage and a motivator. I'm just saying the methods 40 years ago were different, and we might want to look at what worked right in that day, what worked wrong, and what we can use again!

In the Pack and Troop I served, the CM/SM had two emergency checks, pre-signed. He had spending limits on them ... I believe $50 without further coordination, $250 with coordination.

He's a member of the Facebook group ... Message me from there if you can't figure him out...

Sweet mercy. It's not difficult to determine the where the wind is coming from and where it's blowing to. If the wind is going to blow where the audience is, then either don't do the flag retirement or move the audience. As far as flag retirements themselves go per se, follow the normal order of a campfire: High energy and fun early, calmer and more reflective as the evening moves along. That would mean putting the flag ceremony at the end. As far as format goes, there are ways that a retirement can be reflective without being somber...

namu, Yes, we are all volunteers, but if the District promises certain program elements, and they don't come through with them, well ... Feedback is a gift. Talk with your PLC. Ask them what they thought. Ask them to make a decision about next year. You do have a right to take your Scouts elsewhere. Have your COR tell the District Chairman why. You tell your District Commissioner why.

Last winter, here in Kansas City, we had "snowmageddon." Eighteen inches base snow in 24 hours, blizzard winds at consistent 40MPH, actual temps 0F, you can calculate the wind chill for yourselves. The whole bloody metro shut down for two days. If I understand correctly, the TV news teams crashed on cots in their studio buildings. Now, would that have happened in Beavah/Lisabob's necks of the woods? Probably not. Around here, though, this was a citystopping major blizzard. I agree with Beavah's statement about level of training and level of equipping. True story: One time I was maintenance guy at our Scout reservation on a winter weekend. Troops came in for camping, not well equipped ... think "cotton is rotten" and you have the idea. Wet snow brought them to their knees. We got the units inside and under shelter. Hopefully, leaders learned about hypothermia without a major injury

In the Council I serve, it's a not very good summer school. My son had the greatest fun of his Scouting career when he was 16 and 17, and was doing things, many of service to the camp, and fewer of merit badge school.

Are we there yet? Is it time for pie?

Lots of good advice here: 1) SM needs to have a SM conference with each Scout in a POR. Make it universal. Define, in simple words, what you expect for PORs to be signed off. 2) Have a friendly cup of coffee with the gaining SM. Eagle Mill or not, he deserves to know. 3) Tell the parents, politely but firmly, what the standards are. If they aren't willing to have their kids meet the standards, then have a stack of Scout apps ready, and invite them to join that new Troop. 4) Situations like this are why I do not like "Scout Accounts." If the Scout leaves the unit, anything other than deposits/payments for Council Camp or HA should stay with the unit. Period. I can hear the whine of the helo turbines spooling up on this one even here.

How many threads have we worked through where the IH or COR is a toxic person? In the BSA chartering system, the IH and COR are the powerbrokers. If they have a personal spat with person X, one call of theirs to the Scout office and that person isn't a member any longer. No, you cannot vote them out ... Their authority is akin to an Kung of spades in the game of spades ... The only higher authority is the Council SE himself. I am firmly convinced friends of partners are a bad idea.

Thinking about my own life, Learning about serving others began with "required fun" sorts of things ... in the home, in the school, and in my Scouting unit. The first objective is that service to others helps all of us, and if someone doesn't do the (insert task here), no one will. Someplace along the road, the concept jelled in my mind: Service to others brings rewards indescribable. They aren't in $$, but they are rewards. At that point, I got it. I think that's why required service is part of the Scouting program. We have to rely on ages and stages for Scouts to convert service is essential to service is rewarding. Beavah and Gunny, I like the colloquy you two have had

Sweet Mercy. The last time the field (meaning all of us in units, districts, and Councils) decided we wanted a definite answer ... we got one. We didn't like it, either. Keep asking the question, folks. If you keep asking the question, National will decide it's important enough and give you an answer. I promise you won't like the answer! Let me offer a better path: Solve this in your own units, away from the searchlight of Brilliant Idea Fairies from National seeking to solve problems that aren't really problems...

Eammonn, Please allow me to clarify: I will agree with you that individual units would continue to do Scouting no matter what happens to the National Council and the Local Councils. When I said "Follow the money", I am talking to the $$$ remitted to the institution and corporation of the Boy Scouts of America, not to Scouting. That make sense?

OTN: Depends on Council/District policy. My District uses Unit Boards with District Guest. We also are very accommodating of where the young man wants to have his Eagle Board. For most, it's a very special day, and they deserve some deference to their desires. I lament the change in policy which no longer allows the Scout to express desire about the composition of his board. I've known more than a few youth members, my own son included, who put together a challenging board. How many youth would want their Eagle Board to have their Camp Director, their Program Director, and a member of the Council Executive Committee?

At this level, learning the ethic is Quadrant 1 of the leadership model: High Directive, Low support. As our kids mature through their teens, they will move into Quadrants 2 and 3, and with adulthood, Lord willing they get to quadrant 4. That's how I see it, so I'm OK with mandatory service.