John-in-KC

In the meantime, now that we're discussing this amongst ourselves, where is the OP? How have you all actually handled the (we presume) real youth member behind the hypothetical?

Frankly, as a UC myself, I'm more concerned this Troop cannot get three Members of Committee together for a BOR. Now, granted, if I was a CC I'd also not be scheduling BORs during Memorial Day weekend in the first place. I think there are some questions to be asked of Troop leadership, and to be batted around with other commish.

OGE said it. Shortridge said it. BTW, no, you do not have to GIVE him a POR. Here's my question: How does his Scout Spirit measure up out in the community?

Title IV? I've been reading it, in some form or other, since 1974. Flag Courtesy is part of Drill and Ceremonies, once Field Manual 22-5. ROTC cadets get it from week 1 of MS-1.

36 USC 301: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301 36 USC 301 - National anthem Current through Pub. L. 112-90. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) (a) Designation. The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem. (b) Conduct During Playing. During a rendition of the national anthem (1) when the flag is displayed (A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and © all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

4 USC 4: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/4 USC Title 4 Chapter 1 4 4 USC 4 - Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery Current through Pub. L. 112-90. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all., should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.

Scouting should be a journey, not a race. Relax, Dad. Watch him learn outdoor skill basics. Set a tent, stay cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Watch him get better at swimming. Watch him learn to cook. If he has hobbies, in time, let him pursue his hobbies through the merit badge program. Take a step back, enjoy his journey

I can think of lots of ways to have a dignified flag ceremony without doing an indoor flag raising. - Have the kids research the Presidents of the Boy Scouting era... - Have the kids research Medal of Honor winners who were Scouts... - Have the kids research local government officials who were Scouts... - Use the Red Skelton interpretation of the Pledge (have them do it). There's 4 ideas right there. Want more? I'm not saying an indoor ceremony is wrong, I'm saying there are better ways to get the point of citizenship development (it IS an Aim of Scouting) across...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

In my council, we've gotten an agreement with area YMCA's. They will do the swim check in town to BSA standards, and our Scout Reservations are accepting the test. The Troop I serve as a UC JUMPED on this!

Merlyn: Do you want to use one of your lifelines, or is that your final answer?

There is a particular National Chartered Partner of the BSA. That Partner has more units under Charter by a factor of 4:1 than any other Chartered Partner in the Nation. When they change their point of view on this issue, BSA might, might mind you, have room to change. Until they change though, the existing position won't change. So, Merlyn, there's the person you have to influence: The President and the legislative body of BSA's single largest chartered partner. Otherwise, we're pole vaulting over a mouse turd.

This is not a youth protection issue. This may become a matter of membership in the unit (not BSA) under the supervision of the Chartered Partner. For now, do nothing, unless you like being sued for defamation. If a restraining order is issued, that is a proper matter for the CC, the COR, and the IH to sit down at the office worktable and have a businesslike discussion. The outcomes can range from "When you are with us, ensure you comply with your restraining order" to "We're sorry, but you can no longer serve our unit." Membership within the unit is a Chartered Partner matter.

Scout Spirit is living the Scout Oath and Law in a young man's daily life. If a Scout is a discipline problem, he needs lots of Adult Association, working on instilling the Oath and the Law. It might even be worth a friendly cup of coffee between Mr SM and the principal of the kids' school...

I think the actual difference was $47. Right now I will bet every other Agent wants to have a blanket party with the guy. Of course, with Big O's new rule about max $500K for conferences, a lot of his trips shouldn't happen. I don't think you can get the President in motion for less than $1 million. ;-)

Read what Barry (eagledad) wrote! Do it! No more need be said.

My thoughts: Like Beavah, I think it ok for a MBC to set a floor for who he/she will work with. The Scout has to demonstrate fundamental first aid (T-2-1) to move foreward anyway. Remember, the MBC is a volunteer too! Honor his reasonable requests. I'm also ok if a Personal Fitness Counselor wants to meet with the Scout during the 3 months. The Merit Badge Program is as much about Adult Association as it is about Advancement. As long as the Counselor keeps YP in order (no one on one being the guiding rule here), it's according to Hoyle. To me, the Counselor is working to instill an ethic of commitment from the Scout. That's a good thing. Now, the part about if they miss it ... yeah, he's pushed the envelope of his discretion a tad too far. If the Scout leaves for a funeral, if his parents send him to basketball or music camp, and the 8 week visit falls just then. The guy needs to slip back a bit. BTW, I'm the MB Counselor trainer for my District.

Where is your COR?

A couple comments: - IMO, the Internet Advancement module of ScoutNet should be able to provide a purchase order to the Scout Shop: Barcode for quantity, barcode for unit, barcode for person who will pick up/pay for them. It's ridiculous to require a physical copy of an AR to go to the Scout Shop anymore. - I get the point: Rank/MBs are program items of BSA, and should only be bought by folks who are members. That's part of protecting the brand name of BSA. Got it. Now, let's find the right middle ground between customer service and protecting the brand name, just as Beavah implied. - Finally, again IMO: If you think about point 1 above, it's not that difficult to package the badge and a card and mail it directly to the unit. Land's End/Wisconsin Cheeseman/REI/Camp-Mor/Burgher's Smokehouse/Joseph A Bank and JR Cigars can all fulfill your order almost before the phone hits the cradle. Why can't BSA Supply Corporation?

China actually falls outside the Far East Council service area. The Council support for PRC comes from the Direct Service Division of the BSA National Council: http://www.directservicebsa.org/ Right now there are six Packs, four Troops, one Varsity Team but no Venturing Crews within the PRC supported by Direct Service. The information is old, though. Contact the Embassy. Surely someone there has a youth involved in Scouting. In the meantime, I'm going to make a comment about the page at a facebook page of the BSA National Council

Like so many other things, the current BS Handbook is cheaply manufactured. I have my 1967 handbook still. Its still in great shape. Well used, yes. Usable, yes.

There's a reason the Fortune 50 corporation I work for pulled the corporate HQ, and 10,000 employees, out of the Peeple's Republik of Kaliforrny!

In the Council I serve, the public MB Counselor list is no longer a printed item. It's an online database, part of the Council website.

Agree with shortridge. Also, all need to look at the new Guide to Advancement, the replacement to Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. There is new and different guidance from the 2007 answer "Active=Registered".

DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD! THE BERET IS DEAD! THE BERET IS DEAD! There's a reason the Army went back to patrol caps for most uniformage. The beret is without a doubt the single most impractical garment ever invented by man. Give me an all-around boonie hat, Campaign Hat, or woolen watch cap any day (weather dependent).

Reading this thread was more fun than reading Merlyn in I&P. Some sketch comedy troupes have great material right here. I'd be busting a gut for hours ... if it wasn't for the fact the folks on the National Council are true believers in this hokum. Mark my words, the day is coming: Mandatory tour plans for any service project.