John-in-KC

Our standards are nothing more than than a long sheet of plastic film. They're designed to provide transparency. It's us: The volunteers, working with the professionals, who package the sheets into smaller, resilient windows and window frames. Like any man-made object, some of those frames will fail now and again. Constant awareness, constant vigilance are the only true answers. Thanks for your thoughts, B

Ann, Ticket Counselor is a volunteer trainer, someone who is part of a Wood Badge course staff. At the 50,000 foot view, a ticket is a commitment from a student to him/herself and a mentor about a specific Scouting project ... one that will improve the person, the unit, or the Council.

Moose, What is your personal, and your sons', relationship to this Chartered Partner? To pump up Tigers, Wolves, and Bears, you need a CM, 2 DLs, a CC, and 2 other Members of Committee. You don't need 1 committed person, you need SIX. That's the minimum it will take to recharter this unit next cycle. You've already said many leaders are paper ghosts. To quote Colonel Sherman T Potter, "Hooey!" You need folks who will engage and give. Otherwise, you're asking the one person who will step up to burn out by the numbers. Isn't this stuff part of what your WB learner needs to be doing for her ticket item? BTW, are you a Commissioner in your District? What's your District Commissioner say?

Moose, This is one of those times where the unit and the Chartered Partner need a lot of support. - When was the last time the DE did a business call with the head of the Chartered Partner? What was the assessment of the unit/Partner relationship he got at that time? - When was the last time the District Commish, ADC, and/or UC visited the unit? What does the Unit Visit Tracking system say about the unit? - The key question in the two above: Who is looking in on the unit? How did they get here? A bit of backstory is always helpful. FIRST KEY ISSUE: - Recruiting. This Pack is 1 year away from failing to recharter. District Committee and Commish staff have to combine resources to offer this unit lots of recruiting assistance? -- Recruiting youth: This Pack needs more youth. Gotta have 5 to qualify to recharter. Depending on when the Web 1 crew crosses, this Pack is less than 20 months from closure. -- Recruiting adults: It's about sharing the work. 1 person will find this effort superhuman. The lady needs help. Even if that help comes from Commish staff giving a year as Den LEaders etc to get the ball rolling, no help ... 20 months to shut it down. SECOND KEY ISSUE: - Program? What do they have planned? What have they done recently? Pinewood? Blue and Gold? Day Camp? Webelos Camp? Summer activities? It's been said again and again: PROGRAM, PROGRAM, PROGRAM. Kids want to do stuff. If they're not out in the community doing stuff, they're not going to come back, and the Pack is going to fail. THIRD KEY ISSUE: - Money. This Pack needs some budget funds to do stuff. Even craft supplies cost a bit. Moose, take a step back, and help this lady figure out how to eat this elephant one bite at a time. Trust me, this elephant is HUGE.

Beav, emb brought a point to the fore. We do have honors and recognition for adults in Scouting. It cannot be fully altruistic "We are only here to serve the youth." That doesn't work in any volunteer supported organization. We're human. We have egos. Of course, the honor that is youth membership is open to debate since the kids can elect any they choose to, without regard to a quota. I'll tell you that I did feel special when I knew that I had made the cut of my peers back in the day. I know Scoutmasters who talk with their units before the election, publish the eligibles list, and say "If you plan not to vote for someone on this ballot, I want to know about it in advance." As for the First Class requirement, that is a house of straw, and we all know it. Outdoor Bronze? Ranger? Silver? They're all more than BSA's standard First Class. Mark my words. The day will come when a co-registered male Scout/Venturer is elected, his just as qualified friend in the Crew side is not elected, and she sues for discrimination. Even if it gets only to summary dismissal, BSA will have to spend $$$$ to defend the issue.

Beav, I am speaking as an elected youth member of our Order. Granted, that was almost 42 years ago, but I am an elected youth member. SP is right. We are operating on a double standard between the terminology of youth election criteria and adult selection criteria. For youth members, this is an honor. For adult members, it's an easy way to obtain seats and seatbelts for the youth. The unit serving Scouter in the Order is typically there to drive youth to events. Remember youth member Scouts aren't allowed by G2SS to drive themselves to events. Honor can kick in, if the Scouter is engaged by the chapter/lodge, works long and hard enough, and is someday called to the Vigil. That is an honor, youth or adult alike. We make the adult go through the identical Ordeal as the youth. Even so, we don't call the adults' selection an honor. It's a matter of pragmatism: Can he/she support the intentions of the Order? We have a problem. Of course, we have a second problem: We have youth members of BSA who are unconditionally disenfranchised from the Order: Youth member female Venturers. Some day, that's going to bite us on the fourth point of contact, hard.

E732: With that kind of Committee, I'd say EJECT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIz5z9VoLJU(This message has been edited by John-in-Kc)

What papadaddy said.

As with any software, save early and often...

Terry, as always, thanks for a long history of a free (and mostly technically clean) site. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

It's not the product; it's being dedicated to serving the youth by keeping up with the things they do! As far as BSA is concerned, the only database that matters is ScoutNet. Making sure that what you input to ScoutNet, by paper advancement reports, by internet advancement, by internet recharter ... that's where the Advancement and Membership coordinators on a troop committee earn their volunteer smiles and thank yous. Been there and done that, and done well, you have few problems year to year with youth member management. CAUTION: Audit your unit on ScoutNet at least annually! Your DE can help you get a data dump. If a paper advancement report goes in, and the staff secretary keys in the wrong member number, your Scout doesn't have Lifesaving MB, and Bobby Smith in Troop 141 does! Your unit database is the first secondary source. These days, it helps provide the info for tour plans, advancement, and membership. You could choose to use an OpenSource spreadsheet ... as long as you keep up with the information. My thoughts. BTW, I used TM2000. It was a non-distributed product. I pulled data, formatted reports as they dumped off in text files, and got them to the SM/CC/trip planner. I'm personally a TM fan.

WAKWIB ... IMO there will come a point where something happens. Sadly, it'll be after an accident or incident where there's been loss of life or limb. Because of that incident, BSA will be involved in a liability action. BSA will pay its claim, as it traditionally does, but then it'll drop that Chartered Partner like a hot potato. What can the local Council do? Not a heck of a lot. If there's something serious with a person, it can revoke a membership and tell someone not to darken BSA's door again. We've both seen that happen. If there's something serious with a Partner, it can drop the partner. Let's be honest: BSA relies on people of integrity self-policing. They're called VOLUNTEERS. Even there, BSA picks and chooses what it considers important to police. Think about advancement: Lots of volunteer resources go to advancement. Think about the Outdoors method: Lots of volunteer (and professional) resources go into our properties. Think about uniforms... not so much. Does that make sense? You coming to RT Thursday? We can talk more there.

My process would be... CM should contact the head of the Chartered Partner and the COR. Hopefully, the CM already knows the Partner's own position on alcohol. I suspect it will be NO. I've seen my churchs' liability insurance policy, the perils of coverage denied are many. The CM has a quiet, friendly, firm word with the parents in question: We do not accept or support your having adult beverages at our Packs events. If the parents continue, tell them their child is welcome, they are welcome at meetings, but they are not welcome on events. If that response meets with resistance, give them their money back and wish them well.

This is Issues and Politics. You don't have to enter here. There's a specific caution that the content is not "of the program" of Scouting. In other words, you take things with a grain of salt here.

SP: No. Lodges are Chartered in a similar manner as Councils. There are terms and conditions to be met, that are in various OA policy documents. BSA program materials are designed to promote a standard product across the Nation. Swimming MB in NY is the same as it is in MO as it is in CA. The basics of the order are to be the same wherever you go.

TCD: In a word, yes. From the National website, the Order will join JTE in 2012. For 2011, Quality Lodge is still the program. Southern Region published the OA Quality Lodge guide on their website: http://southern.oa-bsa.org/lodgeresources/Quality%20Lodge%20Guidebook%202011.pdf(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Calico, As Beavah mentioned, if those bonds were being sent to me, and I could only cash them in at age 65, and they had a 7.2% rate of return, I'd believe in Social Security. I paid my late Dad's. My son will pay mine. One of these days our Chinese bankers will call the notes ... by telling us how America will do business. We are surrendering our sovereignty with each dollar of debt going someplace else. Meanwhile, the Savings Bond? It gets such a pissant rate of return it's not worth investing in.

What irritates me is that for a decade, we've fought long and hard. Has anyone, outside our troops in battle, sacrificed one iota to provide the wherewithal to the US Government? No. Yes, there's been sacrifice in the current Depression. That's not national sacrifice. Thank you, Bush and Rummy.

Pack, See my post in I&P, on Party of No. I'm at the point in my life where I can be a complete and utter cynic. You're seeing the remnants of my youthful idealism. Of course, it'll take someone remembering what Goodman really meant to do when he created the Order to bring it back, so you're probably right

Lisa, This time, i'll disagree with you. This cut should never have happened. It only made the Ponzi scheme worse. Yes. I've called Social Security a Ponzi Scheme. I've got an idea to fix it, but it'll never happen ... our politicians are addicted to their power to tax. It's their crack cocaine. Yes, I am fully cynical today. A pox on all their houses, all 536 of them.

I like what Desertrat and E92 both said. Since I'm a former youth member from the era of the 1965 OAHB, I can say that. Oh: Yes, bring back the TAPOUT. Oh: Revisit the guidance on who may attend the actual ceremony. Leverage the access to information through the Staff Adviser. Get rid of the non-members. That said, a professional and an adult, not members of the Adviser team, should provide independent oversight of Ordeals to the Supreme Chief of the Fire.

Oh, boy. Death by PowerPoint! :-( You need about 5 slides, one of which covers that the BOR is not a retest. The rest of this, as modified (with Beavah's edits), needs to be in a pamphlet you give the learners. Otherwise, here is what you will get from your students.... Slide 10: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... If I approach my boss with 50 slides in my slide deck, I get sent back to my cubicle ... simplify, get to the point.

Social Security is running on fictional IOUs from the General Fund of the US even now. Medicare is on a glide path to relying totally on the General Fund for its budget. What bloody fools of 536 National Leaders (President, 435 House, 100 Senate) ever voted this bloody idea into play in the first place? I've heard all manner of bad ideas on SS/Medicare. Letting this particular bad idea (cutting the inputs to the fund streams) die is the first good idea I've heard in some time. My two cents.

No matter what OGE says: DING DONG THE BERET IS DEAD!!! THE BERET IS DEAD!!! THE BERET IS DEAD!!!

There is only a recommendation on the Venturing uniform. A ***Crew*** (that means youth members, not adults) can make any decision they want on a uniform. Of course, having worn overseas caps in Scouting and in the Armed Forces, they are the most impractical headgear imaginable, UNLESS one is travelling and has to have headcover (they are compact) or one is trying to conserve the cloth used to create the hat (an overseas cap uses less material than a Service (bus driver) cap. As for me ... in the summertime in the field these days I prefer a boonie hat... At one point, Propper (one of the Armed Forces uniform manufacturers) made a Mil-Spec boonie hat in just plain khaki; here's one in the now obsolete desert camo pattern: https://www.epropper.com/site_images/product_images/color_images/Boonie_Sun_Hat_3-Color_Desert_114.jpg In the wintertime in the field these days I prefer a black wool watch cap: http://www.rothco.com/showpics/index.cfm/item/2267