John-in-KC

To drive a stake in the heart of this point, There is not one single word in ACP&P #33088 or Requirements #33215 requiring the Scout/Venturer to use youth from his own unit as his labor pool! The Scout can use friends, his school band, his school team, whoever he chooses for his ELSP. The project may depend on special expertise that the typical Scout cannot achieve without 1-2 years of training! So, don't worry about this. Ed said the same thing as I, but far more simply!

but I think the, visit to a burn center had the most impact. I like that Barry!

What does your SPL think? I ask that in all seriousness... I think making him an instructor, requiring him to earn Fire Safety MB, and then teach the skills of Fire Safety to each patrol in turn over the next year might get the point across...

My Council: 2008 Annual Report (last one on the website): Youth: 35,392 (+10,000 LFL participants) Adults: Not reported My District: 2 Counties 61 Cub Scout Packs 60 Boy Scout Troops 2 Varsity Teams 15 Venturing Crews

You're right, acco... thanks for the catch

Neil, The COR can also be CC. In fact, CC is the one member of a unit who can hold more than one registered position within the unit.

Let's take a look at the youth application for a moment. The burden is not on the youth member. It's on his parents! The Boy Scouts of America recognizes the importance of religious faith and duty; it leaves sectarian religious instruction to the members religious leaders and family. Members who do not belong to a units religious chartered organization shall not be required to participate in its religious activities. Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership. To me, this is not a hill to die on today. SMT224 needs to do his homework with the parents. For all we know, the boy is trying to get a reaction. Let's see how he grows, develops, and changes. There may come a time, 3-5 years from now, where the matter of faith matters towards the youths' Scouting advancement. It doesn't today. Let him grow and develop. The DRP talks to the parents' responsibilities at this point, not the youth members.

Talk with the parents. Talk with his Pastor. The boy is not even 11. He may be rebelling. He may be trying to get a reaction. He may also be serious. You'll have to do the legwork to determine what's going on. If this is serious, then the next step for you is a long talk with your COR. Find out how the Chartered Partner will react to this. If the boy is serious, sooner or later he bumps up against hard walls of the ADVANCEMENT and IDEALS methods of Scouting. I'd ask about this at every Board of Review, but as open-ended, probing questions. When he gets to the point of a BOR for Star, in a couple years, that's when the questions become tough. By then, if he's still believing this, it's time to bring the District Advancement Chairman into it. If it were me, I'd probably advance him to Star, but I think it'd be time to bring the train to a halt at Life. Document your conversations. You may someday have to deal with a rank denied appeal. Your position carries water if you've kept book. For now, though ... it's time for him to have fun, learn skills, and discover himself. Keep him in Scouting ... it will help.

As the COR, he can: 1) Contact the District Chairman and the Chair of the District Activities Operating Committee and ask for details, to include training, safety standards in place, and so on. 2) If the District Chair and Activities Chair are unresponsive, he can ask the DE ... or move up the Professional chain, as he sees fit. 3) Sit down with the SM, CC, and SPL and say "In the interests of the Chartered Partner, you will not go." There is a downside risk: The unit leadership walks out. Asserting ownership is the most powerful tool in the COR's toolbox, and needs to be used with great care. As an aside, I know a Scout Reservation that has an axe-throwing yard as an activity ... so there have to be some form of safety standards out there somewhere. Like others, I hope good answers flow Frank's way!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

A great book, if you can find it, is the late Colin Fletcher's first edition of "The Complete Walker": The first one was simple, to the point, discussing both nutrition needs and a concept of managing foods and weight. I'm less fond of his later editions, more words and less content... I've had mine since my youth days as a Scout...

Having contributed in this thread long ago... Are we there yet?

Frequency of outings should not decrease. Location of outings might change. If I was still a Committee Chair, I'd ask the SM to bring his SPL for a burger and a shake at a local burger joint. We'd talk about THRIFTY, and being GOOD STEWARDS. Then, I'd let the SPL and the PLC, under guidance of the SM, revisit the annual plan. The issue is the cost of gas impacts both program and support. The program side needs to show some maturity by being sensitive to the wallets of the support side.

My Walter Mitty dream... 1) Consolidate every single federal program to educate kids into a single fund line in the Federal budget. 2) Apportion the line to the several States on a per capita basis for grades K-12. 3) Let the States run their own education programs. Justice can take care of any discrimination claims and any fraud. Of course, the other option is to terminate all mandates from Federal level, close down the Department of Education, lower the tax rate by that portion which goes to education, and let the States do it. That was how we did it in the US for a long time...

Relax I personally don't like the term advancement chair at unit level. You're not chairing anything, especially if you have and on the ball CC. Even so. Biggest job, as I see it, is to have a stable of trained committee folk capable of doing boards of review. I'm not quite of the "on demand" school, I think a Scout should ask and then adults should promptly schedule. We owe it to them as part of Adult Association and Ideals: We're modelling proper behavior to them. Yes, if a youth is not advancing, hold a BOR. Find out why. That's in the Scouting literature. Administratively, you're the person who (if your unit uses it) does Internet Advancement and gets the information into ScoutNet. Coming from just a few years ago, where the clerical help at Council was not great, being able to control our own destiny in accurate input is a pretty good thing. If you have a good SM and strong youth leaders, you may be able to use the Scribe to get information from the Patrols to you. Saves your running around and chasing down the youth. Reporting. That's really, really important, believe it or not. Helping the SM, the SPL and the PL know where a boy is can help put some challenge on him to keep moving forward. It also helps the SM, that if a boy is ready (and he doesn't know it), Mr SM can give him a quiet nudge to start the process of rank advancement SM conference and BOR. God bless you for doing this! Enjoy the ride

One of the very hard lessons I've learned in life is that collegiality and collaboration work most of the time. Dysfunction doesn't work most of the time. My read, moose family, is that this Troop is in full-fledged dysfunction. Here is my question, for you to answer only in your hearts: How much emotional reserve energy do you have? From my read here, much of the energy that should go into the youth of the Troop is instead going into the dysfunction of the grown-ups. There's a simple remedy for dysfunction: Thank everyone for the good times you had, say your farewells, and walk out the door. There will be other days and other youth to serve. Save the energy for them. From what I read here, this Troop is a recipe for burn-out.

Call your DE and your Registrar.

In my District we use Scoutreach dollars to assist when a new Scout has a true need. Committee Chairs coordinate quietly with their UC and/or the Profesional team. We also have several true Scoutreach units. There is a pack, troop, and crew inside one of the area counties' juvenile jails. There is a troop in a particular part of the district that is economically in real trouble. A neighboring District has a true inner city area. There are several Scoutreach units there. Unit leaders are drawn from other elements of the District; they get a token honorarium to serve in addition to their other Scouting duties.

This is why CORs make leader selections. This is why we follow the staffing policies. OK, this isn't a runaway train anymore. You're looking at the end of track, and a wreck is imminent. Somebody needs to take the IH and COR aside, train them, and have them each muster their moral courage. Simple to say, tough to do. I wish you well, moose, on this. It's gonna be ugly.

The problem Gov Brewer had, herself being a former Secretary of State, was placing that authority and responsibility into her sole discretion. Now, what I think she was really saying in her veto message was: "What goes around, comes around." "Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it."

My two cents: - Needs to be back under the National Camping Committee. - Needs to return to being "The Honor Camping Society of the Boy Scouts of America." - Needs to be open to all Venturers, given Outdoor Bronze (or Ranger, they can pick) and other camping standards. Drop the gender matter. Then, each Lodge needs to understand it and it alone is responsible for generating an exciting program that causes youth to want to come attend events. Those events need to be service laden with fun.

First, the Chartered Partner is the owner of record of the unit. If the IH, the COR, and the SM are friends, then you have a strike against you. You do need to develop a working relationship with the COR. Period. You also need to develop a working relationship with the SM. My suggestion for the moment is a working breakfast amongst the three of you, offsite. It sounds to me like there either is not a vision for how this Troop wants to function and grow, or the visions are on different lines of sight. If either of those assessments is true, there's gonna be problems. The SM and the CC have to be on the same wavelength and have each others back. It's that simple. If you think you cannot get on the same vision as the SM, or he cannot get on the same vision as you, it's time to call it a day and head for greener pastures. We all have a limited supply of emotional energy, and it's best spent helping the youth!

Run away if they ask you to do this again. Now, if they ask you what you need to get it done, and how much of a partial you can give, well, then you might want to participate. We say ... don't add to, don't take from ... so that the advancement awarded (a merit badge in this case) is pretty uniform, no matter whether the Scout is in Kansas, Idaho, Alabama, or Vermont. At the end of the day, it's how well you can look at the Scouts who get your signature on a MB app and say "I gave them my best."

http://www.campfireusa.org/ Their national HQ is here in Kansas City at 11th and Walnut.

Ann, Welcome to the forums, and what ScoutNut said! There is not a single word in Scoutings' literature requiring a sole relationship between a Pack and a Troop of the same Chartered Partner. In an ideal world ... yes, the Troop would be the first choice for reach forward from the Pack, the Troop would be the first recruiting choice for the Pack, and the Pack would be the first reach-back choice for the Troop. OK, so much for the ideal world. We live in the real world. Contact your COR, as a courtesy. Inform him/her that the Troop cannot meet your support needs and that you're going out and seeking support from other Troops. Make sure, once you get a Den Chief, that the DL and the Den Chief together attend Den Chief's training: It's a great way to develop common expectations and vision. Oh: Seek an ASM as well, to come to your committee meetings, and be able to dovetail your program needs with the program resources a Troop can provide. That kind of relationship building is a blessing.

It's a tool for training. Drill Sergeant shouting is a tool. Wall to Wall Counseling (Field Manual 22-106) is a tool. Follow me and do as I do is a tool. A couple of those tools would not pass Scouting muster, but they are still tools, and they are still used in the real world. The point of all this is teach the trainer a way to teach a skill to a learner. So, Rick and Beavah, I'm going to ask you: Describe the cognitive and physical skills you would use to introduce training/learning techniques to a 13 year old who in turn will train a physical skill to an 11 year old, please.