John-in-KC

THIS THREAD NEEDS A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A GRAIN OF SAND ALERT (he shouts) BSA, from ACP&P says three members of the Troop Committee, all registered Scouters, no ASMs, no youth. You can find it on the scouting dot org site if you are so inclined. Is this a hill to die on? NO BORs are good opportunities to "set the hook" for parents to step up and become Scouters. Some events, the Committee doesn't answer the call. If the Scout has done the right things, unless we really want to impart a lesson of doo-doo happens, the Committee needs to suck it up, insert ASMs to cover the shortfall, and get the kid throgh the wicket Scouts on BORs? What Beavah said. Meet the baseline, and if there is a mature young man, let him learn by doing. I see no problem about T or 2.

Papadaddy is right. Routine maintenance is prohibited. Now, if the building has historic status, preservation of historic elements might fly. My suggestions: 1) Ask SM to have friendly cup of coffee with DAC. The DAC will be the final arbiter. This is not a hill worth dying on if he says no. 2) Otherwise, what OGE and Frank 17 said.

I support my DAC by doing District MB Counselor training. My initials are not on the MB Counselor app, he does not certify the app, does not send it to the Registrar, and through our Professionals, informs the COR/CC/SM the counselor is not yet qualified For 110 or so of the MBs, the only standard is self-selection. If there is a clear problem, the DAC has a friendly cup of coffeewith the Scouter. As I understand it, shooting sports in our council require the counselor to be a NRA range officer if he intends to open a range for his Scouts to shoot on. As I understand it, the proficiency standards in Safety Afloat (Scouter must be able to demonstrate all the skills of the MB to counsel aquatics. MBs. Our Council Advancement Committee, with the approval of the Exec Board, has put a six MB limit per counselor. No one is willing to die o that hill today, there are bigger fish to fry

You can certainly dual register with a Venturing Crew. I'm not so sure about a Varsity Team (if they are used in your area) and I ***think*** it's one troop per council to a youth member. Check with your council registrar's office to be sure.

Neal, Appreciate your perspective. I think the life lesson, especially as Mr Troylet is an Eagle, is valuable and worthy. Given there is time, I think hitting the eject button can be held off a bit. Palms are truly "nice to have" in our advancement system. Eisely, As clarification, if Mr Troylet cannot get things done on his own at the SM/CC level, that's where I recommended parental intervention. To me, the last resort is to change units. From personal experience outside Scouting, learning to work together is vital.

A year ago, when Mr ____________ (I do have the name, it's amazing what a domain whois search finds) did his call for functionalities, I found the following comment from Eagle92: 2) If you offer a competitor to Troopmaster, and Packmaster as well, then GOOD LUCK as it will be an uphill battle. My suggestions would be easier to use, CHEAPER, and able to hook up to SCOUTENT as some requirements off the top of my head. I'm sure others can add can other ideas. Well, Scoutboost was not less expensive. So far as I could tell, Scoutboost does not claim to mate to ScoutNet. Now, this morning, my network is telling me the domain name is no longer recognized. That said, godaddy.com still shows the domain being alive. Oh, well. To Mr __________: Had you gone to BSA Licensing along the trail, had you done your thread title: SERVICE ROLL-OUT, had you actually referred with quotes back to your survey post a year ago, ... you'd might not have gotten the reaction you did from me.

Welcome to the adult world. We should play nice, we don't always don't, and it's often over petty stuff. I disagree with Neal, up to a point: We don't play nice all the time. It's a good learning experience for you to develop tools which help you work through times/situations where others do not cooperate and collaborate in work (in other words, play nice). I would suggest not asking for a Scoutmaster Conference, but simply asking for time to talk. Assuming this happens, lay the issue out calmly and quietly. Avoid accusing language ... offer to compromise on your part. If he defers you (nice words for puts you off/blows you off), ask to visit with the CC. If that doesn't work, you are still a minor: Ask your parents to formally intervene on your behalf with the CC and Scoutmaster. "Please explain why you will not give our son a Scoutmaster Conference?" In other words, work the system. I wish you well.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I hope you all enjoyed your virtual visit to our wonderful Theodore Naish Scout Reservation, here in the Heart of America Council! Huge, huge attaboy to Mr Jim Terry, one of the two Assistant Chief Scout Executives, who at the time (2000-2005) was the SE of HOAC, and who pushed recapitalizing our two Reservations... Naish and H Roe Bartle!

Having been a membership/advancement coordinator... The information demanded by BSA for Tour Planning, recharter, advancement borders on the inane. Have you noticed the database of ScoutNet now all but demands middle names vice initials? Have you noticed that a kid called Bill, who wants to be known as Bill, must be called William (or whatever the legal name is) in ScoutNet? (If it's not that way before Eagle, it sure is afterward). Advancement management itself is not difficult. The primary record should be the handbook and/or the merit badge application, however the troop generates an app. The Scout gets his book looked at by the Troop Scribe, who updates something (the wall chart comes to mind). The advancement person then can update the unit records from the wall chart. Then, regularly, the advancement person sends reports to the SM. Helps Mr/Ms SM keep informed on the boys. This allows Mr/Ms SM to have a quiet SM conference with a Scout who is "stuck" ... and maybe some peer help can get him unstuck. The same report can go to whoever will run the advancement BOR. It's a snapshot, no more, no less. Finally, the feature I would insist on is that any advancement software be compatible with ScoutNet internet advancement: Connect, upload, update. At least then the matter of my son having the (he never earned it, but the Registrar won't remove it) Oceanography MB on his youth Scouting record will finally go away.

I hope you've licensed this product with BSA Licensing, because I've already contacted them. It's amazing what a domain "whois" search reveals. BTW, don't even think about removing the Universal Symbol aka the Tenderfoot badge after the fact. I have a screenshot, and I've told BSA Licensing I have it. As far as your pricing, you are way overpriced compared to TroopMaster. Makes the decision easy. As Elizabeth Robinson once said: "You are the Weakest Link. Goodbye!"

One set of data points: http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html For tax year 2008 (last available): Percentiles Ranked by AGI AGI Threshold on Percentiles Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid by this population group Top 1% $380,354 38.02 Top 5% $159,619 58.72 Top 10% $113,799 69.94 Top 25% $67,280 86.34 Top 50% $33,048 97.30 Bottom 50%

If this is the Council Advancement Committee policy, then the appeal would have to go to National. Sigh. It'd be interesting.

What I see is what we called in the Carter years STAGFLATION. The economy is not growing. Inflation is here. 50 cents an ear of corn? Hello? $3.48 a gallon for gas, down from $3.89? Hello? If we had the rising economic tide all of us desire, it would float all the boats. We don't. We further have the problem of debt service and entitlements. I'm not smart enough to fix the problem, but I know this: It took America 70 years to tie the Gordian knot. Slicing it, as the House proposes to do (but not attacking the entitlements), is going to generate pain and risk. Untying the knot takes time. We need a bunch of Scouters in Congress, who can say the Pledge, recite the Oath and Law, listen to a prayer, and then in friendship and courtesy work through the problem. That's a sad pipe dream.

Bnelon44: May we ask what your Scouting position is? BTW, what are you going to do about the Councils who now use computer driven databases to manage MB apps during the summer camp cycles? The card is a program item. No more, no less. It has a price with a profit component for Supply Corporation. Given the number of clone cards out there, I suspect the cost/unit can be driven down substantially with local reproduction. Tell me again how the National Council is going to mandate a program items' use in the field ...

Now that Calvin seems to have been run off If I were sitting a BOR and a boys patch fell off between the time he got to the meeting and the time the BOR happened, I suspect I'd use that as an icebreaker, to say life happens in real time Now, if the boy showed up for his Life BOR with Tenderfoot on his shirt, I might have a question or two ... not about uniform standards, but about how much he cares about Scouting... I think a Scout should be able to take care of his Council patch (the old community and state strips, for those of us who remember those), his unit number, his rank, and his patrol. Everything else is bling. ... I also suspect if I'm sitting a BOR, I probably know enough about the Scout that if he's not wearing a uniform at all, I probably have an idea why.

I'm in absolute agreement with Lisa and Beavah. Have the adult do his app. He needs to have a businesslike conversation with the Committee Chair. That's the first sign/no sign gate. CC doesn't endorse the app? DONE. He needs to have a businesslike conversation with the Chartered Organization Rep and/or the Institutional Head. That's the second sign/no sign gate. COR/IH doesn't endorse the app? DONE. If he gets through the COR/IH gate, submit it to Council and see what the background check yields. Council will either accept his membership or not. Either way? DONE. Stop talking about the circumstances in an open forum. Do the process.

US Scouts has a copy. Get blue cardstock and voila! http://www.usscouts.org/advance/docs/34124.pdf

Billy knows how to push Grandpa's and Aunty Beth's buttons. Trust me on that. Sooner or later, he has to approach Mr Smith and ask for a job. Let him learn how to meet and interact with strangers.

In the District I serve, Eagle Leadership Service Project Reviews are available every month except July at District Roundtable. A Scout is either given District clearance to begin the project, or he is given specific elements to work on, and deferred from approval. The Advancement Committee member gives him contact info, and the Scout can close the loop anytime the two can get together. As far as completion, the question asked of the Scout is "If you were injured tomorrow so badly you could not do anything more on this project, could another Scout in your Troop take your book and be able to lead Scouts to execute the project?" A few projects have been outright disapproved, generally, they do not meet BSA's minimum for ELSPs.

Rick and Beavah's answers say most of it for me. I would submit, given the high prices of fuel, the Committee Chair, working with the SPL through the SM, needs to help the PLC understand money does not grow on trees.

First, the adult needs to have a talk with the Chartered Org Rep and the Chartered Partner's Executive Officer. They have to be comfortable with this man serving. I've been a COR. I'd want to have a friendly cup of coffee somewhere with him. I'd want to closely check his references. Then it's time to visit with the DE. I don't know if the adult wanting to serve will be accepted. I wish him well.

If presented this in a Scouting clinic I had paid to participate in, my critique of this training would not be friendly. 1) What is your knowledge goal for the learner? Knowledge, Comprehension, Application or Synthesis? To me, it looks like you are trying to do application level training for folks who need knowledge level training. You do not have to cover the waterfront, get the most important 2-3 points home. 2) Lose the graphic from your slides after the title slide. It adds no value. See slide 40, it actually interferes with legibility of the slide. 3) Way too wordy!!! Do. Not!!! READ!!! THE SLIDES!!!!!!!!!! Cut 70-80% of the words from the slides, move them instead to the script. The slides are there to get key ideas quickly into the mind visually The bulk of the information should be listened to or given as a handout. 4) Continuing 2, the speaker notes on Slide 19 infer you are going to read the slide. Give your audience credit that they can read, add value instead. 5) Make sure each image used supports the point of the slide. Slide 17 is a perfect example. Your photo of youth canoeing is completely unlisted on the words. Slide 37 is another. How many tornadoes happen in Arizona annually? Would not a flash flood be more appropriate an emergency? 6) If you have to below 24point font, you're cramming too much information on a slide. Simplify, simplify.

Tales and lessons: Tale #1: A good friend, in another Patrol, asked me to count the ballots at their permanent patrol selection during the campout weekend. This patrol was so dysfunctional (8 x ueber Type As) they could not agree on a PL. It took 3 rounds of voting, and even then, one dropped the F-bomb as I left. Tale #2: Be careful when an idealistic 20 year old encounters grizzled 40-somethings, who are somewhere between realistic and cynical. Our 20 year old tried to press his youthful idealism "Guys, you have to play the game. Be 12 year olds again." We all thought otherwise, and told him so in plain language to his face. He didn't come to the inter-session meetings, didn't bring what he said he would to the campout, just completed weekend 2, and never finished his ticket. Tale #3: Like so many, the Game of Life can be a disaster. Plan it. Brainstorm it. Have someone keeping an eye on it. Do not allow it to spin out of control. Breaking faith with other adults is a very bad idea

My number 1: I'm away from the nitnoids of the rest of my life.

I'm with eisely. Program principal (CM, SM, Coach, Advisor), CC, Advancement person, and Treasurer should generally be from different families. From my experience, there are fewer perceptions of "Billy is your son and you are favoring him." It's bad enough for one Scouter parent of one child, it's worse for two. There are times and families, though, that can do it and do it well. My hat's off to them.