OzarksOsage

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I agree that the Centennial shirt's collar does not fit well over a neckerchief. But, with the smaller collar, it would be easier to wear a neckerchief OVER the collar, with the collar in the normal position, as many Scout associations around the world wear theirs. With the BSA returning to larger-sized neckers (thank you!) the fit of the even-larger-necker under the smaller collar will become even less desirable. I wonder if the BSA is going to move to neckers over/around the normally-positioned collar? That would be a good thing.

My biggest issue with the new shirt is that the length is too short. If you raise your arms up once or twice, the bottom pulls out. The new pants look OKAY as pants, terrible as shorts--they're too darned long. The bottom of your shorts shouldn't hit you -right at- the knee. Also, with so much elastic in the waist, my pants always feel like they're going to fall down. There aren't enough belt loops, and the loops are tight for a Philmont-sized belt.

I'm not sure when the first Raven patrol became part of Gilwell order in the Greater St. Louis Area Council, but now, when a course has eight full patrols and a Raven is on the course staff, the SM often exercises the option to substitute the Raven patrol for the Antelope patrol. When there's a gathering of Wood Badgers and the Gilwell song is sung, we do nine verses to include both Antelopes and Ravens. OzarksOsage

In my council, a lot of Scouters still wear the red jacket. However, most of those jackets are "vintage." (You can tell by the round-topped buttons.) I've heard lots of folks talk about getting a red jacket--some day--but it's hard to swallow the price. When I got mine, seems like it cost less than $50.00. I also have one of the plaid Boy's Life promotion versions from the 60's, and that gets a lot of attention when I wear it. It's also heavier wool and has slash pockets for my hands in addition to the two patch pockets. OzarksOsage

With the general confusion over the "trained" patch, now might be a good time to do away with it and bring back the short-lived trend from the 70's that designated trained leaders with a fully embroidered POR. OzarksOsage

I just got back from our monthly roundtable meeting, and the new uniforms look so much like the current uniform that it took me a moment to realize that our DE was wearing one. The overall look is VERY much the same. The shorts look nice. The bellows pockets are. . .okay. The "Boy Scouts of America" strip appears to be embroidered directly on the shirt. Our DE said he didn't like the sleeve pocket, and said he had sewn it shut when he put his badge of office on it. Everyone was already joking about the "cigarette pocket." OzarksOsage

FireKat: To answer your questions: What about the boys' parents? How do they feel/act about what has happened? --One family is in denial, the other thinks there is some problem, but not necessarily with their son. Any input from district/council/camp personal? --Last year they asked me (I'm on the district committee) just what the heck was going on with the troop. This year, they've turned the problem back to us to resolve, which I think is standard procedure. Any signs of changing attitue with any of the boys? --None that I can see. What about the new scoutmaster? --He's a great guy, but does not hold the troop members to the level of personal accountability that I would. He does see now that last year's "punishment" wasn't taken to heart, and acknowledges that far too much time has been lost that should have been used teaching and mentoring the other boys. He's ready for the two to be gone. Are the boys' parents on the committee? --No. As parents they are welcome to attend any committee meeting, but rarely do, and are not involved enough to become registered scouters. How does the COR feel? --The COR wants the boys out because of potential damage to the CO's reputation and long-term health of the CO's scouting program, but has been advised that while she has the authority to remove an adult, that to remove a boy there really should be a majority vote of the committee. She has called for that vote to be taken at the next regular committee meeting. What rank and age are the boys? --I believe both are 15. One is Star, the other Life. The Life scout is four merit badges and project from Eagle. OO

I'm seeking advice here, or perhaps support for my position. Here's the story: Last summer, the troop with the same CO as my pack (and for which Im an ASM) went to an out-of-state summer camp. Four scouts from the troop trespassed on clearly-marked property of a neighboring religious retreat and stole a prayer flag. There were also incidents of destruction of camp property, a search that mobilized the entire camp to find one of the four scouts who was "lost" only to find out later that he was playing a game and was actually evading the searchers, bad attitudes, disrespect, etc. The behavior was so bad that the professionals at the other council contacted the professionals at our local council. The troop will not be attending that camp again. One of the four boys quit upon return from the trip. The Scoutmaster resigned. The troop committee was split on what to do with the other three boys involved, some wanting the other three scouts out of the unit. After much discussion, it was then decided that the three remaining must write letters of apology to the offended parties, be suspended from troop activities for four months, then, if they wished to return to the troop, they'd have to present an apology to the troop and then a condition of future involvement in activities was that a parent must also be present. Ultimately, the troop leadership (without notifying the other members of the committee that helped create the requirements for remaining in the unit) watered down the stipulations. The boys were coerced into writing the letters of apology (if there was any true remorse, I dont think theyd have had to be coerced), but were back at troop meetings after two months, never had to apologize to the troop, and didn't have to have a parent present on outings. Fast forward to this summer. At summer camp, two of the boys involved in the previous years unfortunate events were at it again. The third boy reportedly behaved himself, or at least did nothing criminal. Two of the boys went to another troops campsite and stole fuel. Later, when seen using the fuel, they insisted that they had brought it from home, and only later confessed when they discovered they had been found out. Now the troop committee is meeting again. I say its high time the two boys are separated from our troop, and most of the committee agrees. The committee chair does not agree, and is pushing for another set of requirements the boys must meet in order to stay in the troop. Given past history, enforcement is unlikely to happen. There is still hope for the troop, but not much, and its hinging on what consequences the boys will face. Good scouts have transferred from the troop, and the next few years of Cubs are looking for other units. So, what does the wisdom out there say? Is it too harsh to remove those boys? If they do not leave, it will certainly do even more damage to the troop. OzarksOsage

My NCS Day Camp Administration certification, granted in 2006 from the Central Region's NCS is good for five years. My range safety certification must be renewed every two years. OzarksOsage

Thought I might as well throw in my two cents worth as well. I've staffed seven camps, three of those as director. Comparing notes, our council charges $47 for five days of camp. For budget, we are given $9.50 per scout, and not only do we use every nickle, we have to account for it at the end. Only registered Cubs may participate in the daily activities, and we do have a tot lot for the non-scout children of staff and walk-around parents. Aside from the DE who is assigned to our camp as general advisor and gopher, the staff is 100% volunteer. In fact, at minimum, it costs the staff vacation time to volunteer, and many supplement their area budgets from their own pockets. Rental of the park is the biggest expense. We have a lot of fun at our camp, and the boys keep coming back for more. Word of mouth is great, and we've nearly doubled the number of attendees in the past four years. OzarksOsage

Proud PPL of Baden's Misbehavin' Ravens C-39-05 OzarksOsage

With the Boy Scout shoulder loops going to green, it would be good to change the Venturing loops to red. Back in the day, red was the "accent" color for Explorers, and green for Boy Scouts on the garter tabs (gold for Cub Scouts when wearing the knee socks). The red would look fine on a dark green shirt. The current green on green for Venturing is nearly pointless because they blend in so well. Webelos and Cub Scouters in the tan shirts would still wear the navy loops. OzarksOsage

For my den, I've always used the toploading sports card holders for awards. The presentation card stays clean and neat, and there's room in the holder for rank patches and arrow points. Anything else is handed out individually. We avoid the baggie and a handshake method whenever possible. OO

Regarding neckerchiefs, they only look too small when worn under the shirt collar. With the collar turned under, the fit is more traditional, but turning the collar under is a bit of a hassle. In the UK, there are both Scout- and Leader-sized neckerchiefs. There are different sizes for OA sashes, so why not different sizes for neckers? OzarksOsage