Gunny2862

Pardon my stepping where I have not trod, and excuse any apparent ignorance or mischaracterization as ignorance please. Isn't OA (Order of the Arrow) a National Scouting Honor Society? And if so in what way can a local authority put restrictions on it, or its elections? I could understand if the Tribe of the Lone Bear or the ?Mic-O-Shay? which I understand are area or regional societies did so, or allowed camps in their local areas to put those kind of restrictions on membership(I would still think they were actually limiting themselves that way), but how can a National allow this?

Still good thinking going on, thanks! I'm learning a lot here. But I also need to point out that the thread has hypothetical in the title, for a reason.

Thanks for posting this!

Not enough experience to say anything truly meaningful, but the cent and a half I have for this one is... The Eagles I have seen fall into two groups, those who appreciate that they did it themselves and were happy they didn't have to rely on external motivation to get there; and those who at first resented the "push" and later over time were gratified by the thought that there were others who cared enough about them to ensure that they didn't miss out on this capstone experience of Scouting. Is one more likely to STAY involved than the other, yes, does the other "Eagle out" not to be seen for a number of years? It seems so to me at this point. I really hope that my Parental experience will be with the first type, but I know that from my first career some folks needed a little push to get an accomplishment/experience they deserved and as an ASM I plan on being a kludge and doing a little gentle guiding.

Sorry, from the Cheap seats! So, there really are troops out there that wear the actual full and complete Class"A" or Class"B" or Class"C" uniform every time and for the full duration of any and all Scouting activities? Haven't seen even a whole Patrol in such (in the full and complete sense) yet. In or out of council. Now I have worn, and my son has worn, and have seen other individuals wear for "Events", but...

You can see it in just the 8 year gap between me and my next oldest brother. And like the article states - is it a reality or public perception that leads us to fear the abduction of our children? I knew never to get in anyone's car while I was still in my limited out and about areas - but I was still out of sight for 2-3 hours at a time. The most my poor child gets is 1/2 an hour to 45 minutes without at least a cell phone check in.

highcountry, I hope your recent troubles haven't left an overly bad taste in your mouth and that now you have reconsidered you earlier frustrated(?) comment about leaving. You seem like the kind of person we need in Scouting. All, as usual, boy I hope I don't ever wind up in anything like this but it's good to see the wealth of wise thinking (and the results of having attended training) that's willing to help out!

True, I would NOT want to do any back country brushbusting with the BS Switchbacks but for almost every other activity we do I think they are an excellent choice! The ability to take off or put on the legs as the day warms up and cools down, or to go swimming is great. And having the cost saving (and weight savings while hiking)of doing double duty as trousers and shorts. I just wish I could use my remaining military utility trousers for the back country w/o falling afoul of BSA rules/guidelines. And being able to do so w/o taking off the boots due to the zipper seems more than worth the effort of doing the length adjustment at the top - my 12 year old is wearing bigger shoes than me, has the same inseam but still doesn't have a 30 inch waist - try buying clothes without adjustments for that!

Hear, Hear!!!

John-in-KC, Cannon Cockers - Bringing dignity to what would otherwise just be a brawl. MarkS, The only things I've ever found in short supply is: ammo when theres plenty of targets, targets when theres plenty of ammo, and chow. I no longer worry about the first two - or at least use other ammo in the academic community , and anyone who has seen me lately will know that I have found the chow line...( yeah, I Know ... I'm working on it.) (On my honor...physically strong...) I gotta say those on the pointy end do in fact appreciate people who supply things that work all the time, every time. Or that at least have the good manners to fail their LTI's(Limited Technical Inspections) before they are hauled out to the field.

I'm seeing some great responses here! Anyone else want to chime in?

Thanks Lisabob! for the clarification.

If your Troop held elections and intentionally voted in bad candidates to SPL and ASPL, would you let them live with the consequences of their mistakes or would you fixit for them? If you would let them find out that elections are no joke by letting them live with it, why. If you would invalidate the election, what would you tell the Patrols about why you did it? Thanks.

1st, new guy...(show me my errors)... 2nd, I'm failing to see where and how the SPL did anything wrong. 3rd, Is the non-challenging scout in danger in proximity to the challenging scout?(para3 of orig. post)

1st point, Scout Law. Frankly, I like the idea of dealing with (insert group here)(i.e. Christians, Catholics, Unitarians, Muslims, Agnostics, Athiests, Anglos, Asian, Hispanic, Nordic, inclusive etcetera here) who ascribe to the Scout Law and Oath. It really doesn't matter what your background outside of Scouting is - if you are a Scout and acting like one then you shouldn't be a danger to anyone. I think we should be able to agree that that is a good thing. And reason to reach out to as many prospective Scouts as possible. 2nd point Why do we feel we must resort to ad hominem attacks against each other, whom we have so much in common with? And for those who are doing it you know that using loaded words is really the same thing. So why not just be civil and not play the nasty, nasty game? A Scout is ...courteous...

I love it , especially the last 8 paragraphs. My boss doesn't really care about how I feel about my work but whether or not I can perform it's duties. It's great to be and to feel appreciated and worthwhile in your work but how many of us get that every day? It's the performance and the paycheck that brings us back tomorrow. I think it would be great if my child could get all of the feedback the feminist perspective thinks people deserve from their jobs but the reality is that employers discriminate good employees from bad based on performance. Just like most of the rest of society.

Well said! Look the truth is that any uncontrolled substance, water, air, boys, can be dangerous when it acts outside of a system with boundaries. And our current method of dealing with them as a society is to say that they have the right to be left alone, to find their own path - an idea I really don't have much of a problem with. Except that is has always been done before within a framework of acceptable behavior, guided by adults who let them fail and then offered 1)guidance about how and when they crossed any boundaries (if applicable) 2)advice about fixing the problem only when asked or when it was obvious that the boys had exceeded their capability 3)if they had erred and just were stumped that is a part of learning too. B-P said that "boys will naturally form packs" and run as they will, isn't it better that we promulgate Scouting and programs like ScoutReach to these and all kids? I don't think I'm dressed if I don't have my pocketknife in the same way as when I don't have my watch. Remember the first/ only time you handed you knife to your dad with the blade first? I still do.

You can also use size modifiers to indicate youth helper(Poquito)sp? or adult (Patron). i.e. The Senior Adult Leader Could be "Patron Senor/Senorita muy macho Grande Chile Relleno" shorten as required. A youth helper could be "Poquito Senor/Senora(sp?)Taco".

jblake and epalmer84, excellent answers - imagine going and looking up sources. Well, we still haven't come up with a definitive answer..., does anyone have a Venturing handbook?

Also, to avoid rot causing leaks for as long as possible make sure that it does get Underline completely Stopunderline dry before storing it for your next adventure. It's okay to bring it home wet if you must but ensure it is dry before putting it away. This will also help stop some funky tent odors that will make it unpleasant to sleep in before noticeable damage (rot) is done. Followup newbie question - do other people actually see these leak problems? It has never (find large piece of wood and knock) happened to me. Canvas, nylon, Goretex, new, old. Tent, Bivy Sack. CONUS, Overseas.

I don't know the Venturing rules and quite frankly I am just happy that you are concerned enough to want to do the right thing. As far as I know the right hand, finger and thumb are in-line, straight and held with the index finger of the hand at the upper right corner of the eyebrow - hand slightly tilted, hand and forearm in-line, arm at right angles to the body - parallel to the ground. And all of this from the position of attention in the military salute. For the Venturing salute you will have to go to your version of a handbook. Now, in order to avoid unpleasant discussions with cranky veterans you may wish to use the hand over the heart at public forums, ballgames,flag ceremonies, etc., unless these situations are covered in your handbook. Especially if your uniform doesn't look so much like a uniform which indicates that you are in Scouting. Also, if they (cranky veterans) do approach you and you are directed to salute as Venturers simply tell them that you are in Scouting - that this is a Venturing uniform, and that you performed the prescribed Venturing salute. And then walk away quickly. They will have to admit that at least in the ballparks now most adults don't know or won't do the right thing.

I haven't been around long enough to comment on the funding of AED's but... How many of us have used a fire extinguisher in an emergency? How many Fire extinguishers do you pass within 50 feet of in any given day? Usually a fire extinguisher is there to preserve property because only very rarely are they a means of escape or accessed quickly enough to kill the fire before it is past their capability. An AED is lifesaving equipment, and no amount of physical exercise or annual physicals precludes a heart attack - if you could I'd say ask Jim Fixx. That said, the AED as lifesaving equipment does still require some (simple) training and a daily battery check. So who would hold it and what degree of availibilty would it have? Even where I work some are locked in offices or in file cabinets - frustrating.

Camp Arrowhead, Marshfield, Missouri was pretty good this year. There were problems, but the staff was responsive, took criticism, responsibility and fixed issues, very valuable commodities at any camp. And I think there are probably always issues during the first week of any camp.

Welcome!

Scoutldr, well said.