fred8033

Cool. I never knew that. That helps understand the details. Thank you ! I never understood that. Thank you.

That sounds consistent with our troop of mostly 16 and 17 year old scouts. They've done the advancement thing. It helped drive them when they were 11 to 13, maybe 14. Now, they just want to hang and do some cool stuff and do it together as friends. Ski. Camp. Game. Explore. IMHO, their adventures have kept them together.

I agree. LDS needs to be split out. Are they already leaving or mostly still there or ... Data analysis is really hard to isolate cause. When I see those numbers of only down 14,000 (approx) cub scouts, that's great news. I'd expect much worse with LDS stepping away. I'd expect LDS wards to immediately not recharter (units or individuals) as the program is imminently ending. Rechartering is thousands of dollars for large units. We need four to five years to see how the numbers work out.

Sad. Give it time. People will come around after realizing it's mostly a non-issue. Most scouters in my area are glad to support scouts who are girls. I don't see the issue at all.

#1 Deck of cards #2 Cribbage board

I like your idea. IMHO, it sounds like a great concept. IMHO, troops should offer a similar program for boys.

Nice write up. As the father of multiple sons, if I knew what I knew now, I'd skip the Lion and Tiger years too. They are just not ready and our family had enough stress starting the kid out in school. Also, my sons have no recollection of those years in scouts. Their memories really started when they got their pocket knives and started working with fire. I also agree. Parents have a hard time seeing the value of scouts when viewed from Lion and Tiger. Especially when compared to baseball, music, or any other highly structured program. As such, scouts is often the first to get cut. I really think that scouts would have strong recruitment if not stronger recruitment if started in second grade.

True. It would be interesting to learn. Another view is that kids can try baseball and other soccer and other things when they are younger. But then when they want something fresh, they can start with knives and fire and archery and bbguns in second grade. I'm not sure the right answer. But I do strongly question the idea of cub scouts in kindergarten just to avoid losing the second grade recruiting.

I think Barry has hit the real issue on the head. Then add X% of Lions continue to Tiger. The simple fact is the Cub program is long and repetitive. Scouts and families burn-out before reaching Boy Scouts. I fear we could predict troops hurting with the addition of Lion and Tiger. . If you assume the best annual retention rate of 85%, you need 100 cub scouts to feed a health troop size. If you assume a more real retention rate of 75%, you need a 210 cub scouts to feed a health troop size. If you did not have Lion and Tiger ranks, troops would be much more healthy. You would only need 72 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 85% retention You would only need 118 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 75% retention Of course, this all begs the question of the same number of families wanting to be part of the scouting program. I fear this is heresy, but not all ranks are equal. Scouts grow far more for each year they are in Boy Scouts than any year in Cub Scouts. We are bolstering membership numbers with younger ranks at the cost of having health troops where we can have the most impact on their lives.

8000 after just a month is pretty good ... especially considering a new troop had to be created. 77,000+ cub scouts last year. That's pretty good too. I was hoping it would be higher, but it's still good. This will take years to shake out to see the real effect. I would not stress or argue over the numbers at this point. At this point, the numbers are more curiosity than a useful fact.

SURPRISE: I've seen this occur before. Scoutmasters have lots to coordinate and are often not sure how to announce who's going to be on the ballot. Instead, the ballot can be a surprise to the scouts and they are surprised by who's on it. I've also seen scouts surprised by not being on it and the reasoning was the person who made the ballots didn't think they had enough qualifying nights. There was no chance for scouts to correct that. All the issues appear at the moment of the ballot. QUALIFYING: A good troop should have enough program to allow scouts to qualify for OA at the end of one year. A good troop will camp two nights a month and at least one week in the summer. Even if they take two months off, that's 25 to 31 nights of camping. I remember one year one of my sons had 34 nights of camping with the troop as we had two extended campouts that summer. FIRST YEAR: I assume the original poster meant scouts that were just finishing their first year or had just finished their first year.

No "gift". Accomplishments reflected on plaque or arrow.

We never charged for attending. B&G cost was covered by earlier in the year dues and fundraisers. B&G would be geared up or down depending on pack finances. I've seen the blue and gold cost the pack $1500 to $2000 for a really cool event. I've also seen it cost the pack $100 to $200 for a pot luck.

Divide what you are trying to do into categories to see if you have coverage. You could even look at the features of the above tools to create categories. Here are some common categories Communication ... Email, Texting, Calendar management ... Printable, subscribe-able, etc Document storage .. Forms, Pictures, Other Social media Advancement ... purchase orders, awards, rank Membership Finances ... Budget, dues, accounting This is what we use Scoutbook ... Default for all units ... Advancement, roster ... it's the official BSA data. Anything else is double work. Facebook ... Default for all units ... social media SOAR ... communication, email, document management Google documents / spreadsheets ... finances

My view is .... Personal growth ---> Introducing new experiences. Stretching comfort zones. Opening eyes to broader, more challenging experiences. Made up example --> Last year, we canoed for an afternoon on mild calm river water. This year we are taking a two day overnight river trip. Next year, we are spending a week canoeing the Lewis and Clark path. Our goal is two years from now to do a white water Colorado river experience. Leadership Development --> We structure the program for the scouts to experiment with leadership and for the adult scouters to back off into the shadows. I absolutely view those as equal to the other six. I guess comes from one's perspective.

Every year I repeatedly see GSUSA uniformed youth selling cookies at BSA activities and events. It has always seemed like one directional relationship.

Much harder for all scouts period. I'm always surprised by the major difference of difficulty of the eagle merit badges. Some are significant work. Some are almost automatic.

My gut feelings... Swimming over Hiking Swimming MB is 9 times easier than hiking. Absolutely true ... I'm surprised cycling isn't more popular than hiking. Cycling MB is fun and can be a great troop program. ... But there are many back-packing troops. Env Sci MB over Sustainability Env Sci MB is not exciting, but a "sustainability" MB sounds duller than dull. I can't believe a scout would ever choose it. Troops have a history of pushing Env Science MB. Sustainability MB is newer. Emergency prep over Lifesaving I'm always surprised Lifesaving is not chosen more. If you have Swimming MB, Lifesaving MB is just a little bit more ... aka easiest path And Lifesaving MB is useful ... aka something to boast about And Lifesaving MB is in the water ... aka fun. And Emergency Prep MB can be very dull ... aka painful And Emergency Prep MB has parts that are just out of date / old / not useful.

I agree. But open the communication channel and find a way to manage the scouts and their commitment. IMHO, the original poster's situation is like popcorn in reverse. Buying popcorn is really a donation with popcorn as a thank you. In this case, the church is is donating $1000 to the unit, but they want 250 hours of free labor in exchange. At that point, you can't call it a donation or gift.

Events need to stay fresh. A fun once a year event done monthly can quickly become a drag with burnt out volunteers and burnt out scouts. Then mix in when the monthly burger night overlaps with summer camp or school break or a district camporee or ... IMHO, it's hard enough to run a healthy troop. I fear someone may have seen the scouts as free labor and thought "hey we give them $1000 per year". They don't realize it costs about $10,000 to $35,000 per year to run a strong healthy size troop and the troop has it's own program to run also. Plus, if $1000 per year breaks down to $85 per month --> then factor in two adults plus a strong mix of scouts so that it's scout led. How many hours? Assuming a three hour commitment (setup, cook, cleanup) for 7 people (two adults plus five scouts), then you are at 21 hours of labor with a $4 per hour return. ... not to mention shopping, etc... It quickly turns the good will donation of $1000 into a less than minimum wage job. I'd argue the scout unit should do it once a year to say thank you to the charter org. It's a good-will connection. Monthly though is a job that pays bad and will quickly wear out your scouts.

This issue is less about the scout and his leaders and more about our country and the strong political divide. Then, add in the online news in-your-face approach. I like the comment earlier about not making a battle of this. IMHO, things like this should be treated just like many other situations in scouting. It's an opportunity to interact with the scout. An opportunity to create a reflection and a lesson. A good scout leader should be able to turn this into a friendly, positive, constructive conversation.

I fully agree. If she gets to automatically count her unregistered time as official time, then we need to go back and retroactively see who else to credit? All venturers? All siblings that showed up at cub scout and boy scout events? IMHO, at earliest, she can earn eagle in 14 to 17 months. But she needs to do the positions and complete the requirements while registered as a scout in a troop. Anything else is just wrong. On a personal note, I did not mind her wearing the scout uniform if she is now registered as a scout. That's fine. Wearing it at a very political event is questionable, but let's leave that as celebrating a huge achievement and a big change. Fine. BUT at best, she should be wearing the scout rank patch. Wearing the life patch was wrong. Period. It's a proud thing to advocate for change. It's right to celebrate when you succeed. A similar case is that I'd also be greatly disappointed in a scout wearing an Eagle rank patch before his EBOR. I fear her troop has misled her. She should not be wearing the patch or have been pretending to go through advancement in her troop. Now, the troop could pencil whip her through rank and just let time pass. But, I'd hope she honestly does the work, earns the rank just like all the new scouts that are newly joining. Give her Silver Beaver. IMHO, she's earned it. Even as a kid I think you could justify her earning it. But not eagle until she completes the requirements as written while being a scout

You are right and I understand your reasoning. It's just sad troops can't have an inventory from which they can recognize quickly.

This is my preferred method. Give them the cloth patch immediately after BOR. Give them the paper card and parent pin at the COH. I'd extend this to merit badges too. A troop that I was involved in had a large cache of MB cloth patches too. IMHO, it's sad that a registered scoutmaster or advancement chair can't build up a stockpile of cloth awards without circumventing BSA purchasing methods. Maybe, BSA should have a rule that a troop can buy some amount in advance. For example, each year able to buy a quantity (25% of their troop population) in any merit badge before receiving the advancement report. It would require tracking a running quantity of MBs, but that's very possible these days.

A registered MB counselor needs to sign them off. The goal is to have the scout pursue and drive his own advancement. I fully believe this is how it is to be done. With that said, sometimes MB counselors will coordinate with the troop and say something like ... If the scout shows you this, sign it off. I've had that before where the MBC works with the scout and the scout has one or two things left. Then, the MBC lets me know that if the scout shows XXX, then sign off the badge. Overall, we're trying to broaden the scout's experiences and we want the scout to have a good experience. As such, sometimes flexibility is taken. But the idea is a registered MBC is the signer of the badge.