fred8033

I see BSA and scouting at approaching the same cross roads the YMCA crossed. Faith versus community. When I was young, our local YMCA had a big cross at the entrance and crosses in meeting rooms and other significant places. The YMCA was very very much a Christ based organization with strong ties to local churches. Now, the crosses and ties to local churches are all but gone. Still in the title, but the rest is mostly gone. Most customers of the YMCA saw the YMCA as a local organization for exercise and community. It was created and supported by the churches for much of it's life

Ask for it to be re-signed using the original dates of review and signature. Scouter's should be friendly and help. It's a whoops, not a circumventing processes. If you don't get help, take it to the next level. Even if not signed, I'd still submit it with an explanation. ANOTHER VIEW comes from BSA Nov/Dec 2017 Advancement News talked about signatures on the proposal. The topic is "Jumping the gun." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/advancement_news/2017_Nov-Dec.pdf Their view is the advancement requirement is to develop, plan and lead a project. Paperwork

$20,000 !!!! Are you sure that's not the cost for a NEW version? Old boats lose value quickly. If it is worth $20,000, that is a ridiculous asset for a troop to carry. It sounds like this is a nebulous position on whether it's a personal vehicle (titled to a individual, used mostly for personal use) or a troop owned asset (not titled to charter org, used once a year). New motor boat engines for a 20+ foot boat is worth more than $4000. Often, the engine is worth the same as the boat. Perhaps this is an in-board motor that is really a car engine mounted in a boat. See if yo

Good comments so far. Here are a few of my thoughts. It's hard to judge this sort of thing from the outside. A 21' motor boat is a big luxury for a troop to use once or twice a year. Depending the age and features, a $4000 repair could be 20% of the value or 120% of the value. I strongly question continuing to hold that asset. Broke due to misuse? ... How? It would help to have context ? Boats are pretty durable generally and hard to break. On the flip side, using boats have common accidents like running into docks, losing anchors, hitting rocks with

I may have missed some posts from the original scoutmaster that may influence my view. It's the challenge when the facts come out a bit at a time. I am one who always wants to make the mistake in the scout's favor. But, it is the scoutmasters discretion and there is a threshold where you do say no. It's in the scoutmaster's discretion and boards will hold it up in those cases. I wish this scoutmaster the best.

Experiencing repercussions is natural. We just don't need to pile on more. The scout already has repercussions at school and home. He will have probably some minor follow-on in the court system with a juvenile diversion program. He did not commit an offense in camp, at meetings or at a scout activity. My view is that we should not penalize him anymore than the school would if he shop lifted from the local Walmart. I was not inferring either. I was just confirming it's the exact reason the Scout Spirit requirement exists. It's the catch all. You can't use the

Scout spirit is the one scouters can use as a fallback when the scout misbehaves. It's why many scoutmasters keep it for the end and reserve the signature right on that requirement to themselves.

We need to be careful with labels. "Criminal behavior" may be accurate but it is also strongly biased. In Illinois, the penalty he faces is about the same as a large speeding offense. I suspect most of us at one time or other was speeding at least 10 miles over the speed limit. Probably in our lives, at least once significantly more than that whether intentional or by accident. That is also criminal activity. We are also definitely at a point where we are discussing whether it should be treated as criminal. It is easy to for impressionable youth to get caught up in those dis

Great question ... For the unit to approve, the scout needs to fill out the "Proposal" section of the workbook. If it ain't written, it ain't a proposal. Otherwise, it's like someone asking you to sign a check without them filling in the receiver and the amount. https://www.scouting.org/programs/boy-scouts/advancement-and-awards/eagle-scout-workbook/ The approver can be one person. You don't need the committee to review. We often just use the committee chair. Other troops assign a person. Some troops do have the scout present to the committee.

For me ... The good Patrol mates and refreshing fellowship of being with other scouters who wanted to be there. It helped rebuild my energy for the program. Watching how they ran the program. Marching. Songs. Competitions. Service patrols. PLC. Blue and Gold. etc. I was not a scout in my youth. It helped show me an "ideal" program. The meh... I won't say bad because none of it was bad. Classwork and individual topics. I've been through so so many leadership, management and team development programs that I saw little new and much of it was d

These days this violation is relatively minor. Plus, youth are affected by societal changes. States are legalizing. Current culture openly shows contempt. Youth are bound to be caught up in these changes. I find it hard to blame him any more than a 1950s youth that experimented with smoking when he comes from a home where a mom and dad smoke. Generally, I think your focus is wrong. If he is a member of your troop, he deserves the right to have an advancement path forward. That's part of being a member and one of the core scouting tools. We as leaders do not lay in the weeds wait

I've seen this happen too. Event time is not possible without prep time. We've had our prep time taken and had to re-scope and re-plan. It's not fun to take three hours of prep and do it all in 20 minutes. I feel sorry for the troop. Once the visitors and vendors are burnt by the experience, I doubt they'll invest the time and cost to go again. The troop just lost an event forever.

I hugely agree. We focus so much on teaching leadership, but we often don't do as well teaching what it means to be a team member or to support the leader. It's one thing that our troop historically did well. We often had the attitude that when one scout is working, then other scouts should be working too. You don't get to just sit and watch because your own job is done. I remember being on a camp out with another troop and having an epiphany that it was not the example I wanted my son to learn. My son and I arrived two hours late because of conflicts. My son and his tent mate sta

This sounds more like I'm accustomed too seeing. Within a patrol, one guy has a title: the patrol leader. Maybe the APL too ... maybe. But the rest of jobs and responsibility. In advance of events and activities, someone is developing the menu and buying the food. Someone is also getting special gear needed for the camp out. For during activities and events, the PL makes sure the patrol work is spread out and shared. Assignments for cooking, getting water, etc etc etc. I always fear when I hear things such that everyone needs a job that it will get too formalized such that we ar

I briefly remember that from Woodbadge and I remember having a hard time matching that Woodbadge example with BSA teaching materials and past habits I've seen from my troops. I fear this is one of those where BSA teaching is not consistent and probably reflects internal differences of opinion of the BSA professional staff. At some point, we just need to make a program that works for our own troops. My troops don't publish a scout published newsletter for use by the scouts. Scouts text each other or chat face-to-face. The newsletters have been for parent consumption and are for coord

I agree. I've seen troops that have multiple ASPLs as those ASPLs were assigned different responsibilities. But sometimes it seems like titles are being created to give people a patch. For example, eight quartermasters ? Do you then have a senior quartermaster patch and then patrol quartermaster patches? At some point we are teaching the bureaucracy of middle management instead of leadership. It's scouting. It's supposed to be simple and structured around outings.

At this point, I can agree. I've often described it differently, but I think it's similar. I've viewed it as when a team is working on something whether it's setting up individual tents or cooking dinner or ... Everyone works. When cooking, some get water, others start the fire, others find the ingredients, etc. You don't just do your part and then sit down. In another case, ... if your tent is up, but your patrol mate's tents are not done, you help your patrol mates. It's part of being a team and not just individuals. A good leader helps the individuals on his team find their p

My question is why? Can't be for advancement. "Strictly speaking", only the patrol leader job counts for advancement. Why does each patrol member have to have an official job? I think this gets to the philosophy and personality of the troop. Is the troop advancement focused or focused on teaching the kids responsibility, etc ? Focused on creating the ideal, perfect troop ? From my last few years of experience, I'm done with troops that are intensely focused on how things should be done exactly. Rather, I'd rather find a troop that is doing things. Camping. Hiking.

I fear I can see both sides of this in that scout troops are often chartered by churches as extension of their youth program. As such, their Eagle scouts are poster children for their values. But, the focus is lost here. The EBOR should not focus on the fact that he fathered a child. That's the past. The question should be how is he fulfilling his new role as a father. Accepting responsibility. Pursuing opportunities to be a better father. Working to be a leader / mentor in this new person's life.

Slight correction. Alternative only applies if troop has pre-established expectations and the scout does not meet those. If the troop does not have pre-established (i.e. written), the third test is passed. You only use the alternative if the scout fails to meet documented written pre-existing unit expectations. "Alternative to the third test if expectations are not met: If a young man has fallen below his unit’s activity oriented expectations, then.... "

Buddists not believing in God? It is a simplistic misguided question. Using it to say BSA is inconsistent is weak, at best. The Buddist answer to the question of God depends on the branch of Buddism. More importantly, Buddism is less about answering questions about God and more about a path to enlightenment and Nirvana. But clearly, Buddism is about spirituality, faith, transcending our physical existence, etc. I remember reading "Religions of Man" by Houston Smith 30 years ago, Buddism is a core religion. If anything, celebrate that BSA has long been a uniting force bringing many

I'm generally a fan of SOAR because of the strong and stable user interface. Rich email capabilities. Good calendaring. .... I contacted the owner recently and he indicated a lot of good features coming. I'm not involved with the company. Just interested in it's success as I've got about 15 local units to adopt it for their packs & troops. Good package. I tried TroopWebHost recently, and had trouble with buttons that were invisible on some browsers and menus that did not immediately expand. The web interface is flaky.

Ya know ... I'm pretty happy with our solution. ---- SOAROL.COM - for web site, email, calendar, sign-up, auto-payment, automatic newsletter, etc ---- TroopMaster (PC version with data backup on internet) for general records and tracking "IN WORK" (i.e. to be awarded) advancements - We've really gotten away from recording that much in Troopmaster anymore. - We just don't see the purpose. ---- Boy Scout Handbook for real advancement tracking with the scout. ---- BSA ScoutNET for official tracking

Agree with the not-so-fine line between conduct disorder and autism spectrum. BUT ... if a parent won't come hiking and camping ... that's not the solution either. There is a fine line here. Scouts need to work with scouts. Parents and adults need to be kept at arms length. Our troop has been very flexible and parents have helped greatly when the kids are autistic or other "ability" issues. But it's very different to need the parent to attend because you anticipate bad behavior and the scout being asked to leave camp. IMHO, you've got a bad situation. Scouting is about independence a

Well said.