fred8033

I fully agree. I'd also suggest developing your own plan for camp. Such as ... bring two or three large books to read. Or bring wood carving supplies for yourself. Or work on your schoool lesson plans for next year. Or a sewing kit. Or take lots of naps. Create a plan for yourself so that you are busy. Maybe there are courses at the summer camp for adults to become trained adult leaders. I've seen that too. But make your activities boring for your son so that he goes off on his own with his friends and grows.

I had this and several other issues with the centennial uniform. I did returns and received new only to have similar issues. It really killed my excitement for uniforming sharpness. It's hard to be enthused to show a quality uniform when the source doesn't provide a quality product.

Voting only helps if that is the personality of the unit committee. Otherwise, it's best done by consensus. That's my experience. Your mileage can vary. Leave details to those taking responsibility for doing the work. I'd practice a few ways of politely saying that in the committee. I'd ask the questioning parent ... as relaxed as possible ... something like ... "is that a show stopper or can we leave the details to the blue and gold chair?" ... "are you volunteering to help the blue and gold chair?" ... It really depends on your personality and whether you can say it politely with a smile and not upset the other person. I've found that one or two problem parents can often ruin the tone of unit committee or unit leadership.

Sensitive subject to me. I've had three Oscar de la Renta uniforms. One for pack. One for troop. And one that flip flopped. Worked well for ten / twelve years. Then came the centennial uniform. I was enthusiastic. I bought four to switch over to support the update. Then, the pants tore (never had trouble with the previous pants ... in fact previous are still good). The new belts all broke. Never had trouble with previous belts. Letters fell off the shirt. Seams gave. etc etc etc. That really really broke my enthusiasm for investing in sharp uniforming and definitely broke my faith in BSA's supply division. ... Lost enthusiasm doesn't come back. Many of my uniforms wore out after lots and lots of use. The Oscar de la Renta uniforms were thread bare. The centennial uniforms failed because they were used instead of displayed on a hanger. So at this point, I have one well worn uniform that I use. I use it for district activities, troop activities, camp outs, etc. Sometimes I wash it on long camp outs and hang it to dry. I have one uniform. I'm debating about buying a new one. I'm not sure when though.

I fear BSA's writing is a feedback reflection of the common reality. It's not the best practice, but it's a common reality. I've seen the details of five local troops. All those troops brag about how they are boy-led with the inference the others are not. They all brag and argue about how to ideally structure patrols. But all those troops only created troop level plans for camping, activities, skills, learning, competitions, etc. ... except my first two or three years in 2005 to 2007, I never saw any scoutmasters encourage patrols to create their own activities or camp outs or unique ideas. Sadly, I do see BSA's statement as correct. Most patrol activities take place in the context of troop activities. Most "patrols" are not real autonomous units. They seem more like a sub-team to divide a big group. IMHO, if you want a patrol to be a patrol, you need to create regular unique activities and goals for them. Maybe they go to the movies together. Maybe they go on a ski trip or a canoe trip. Maybe they have game night. Maybe ... So I really can't blame BSA. Even troops that boast of "patrols" really don't do patrol method.

I don't understand the issue. BSA's 404 error reflects a web-site with content changing with re-writes to for gender. And, it's not going smoothly. . Nothing I've seen indicates patrol method is at all being eliminated or slighted. What I do see is BSA's literature is largely unchanged. I like the 1950s wording better, but it's largely the same concept adjusted for after 2010 youth protection. But, the concept has not changed. Looking at the 1950s Boy Scout Handbook, the description is largely the same. https://archive.org/details/officialboyscout71967boys/page/82 .... page 88 ... "The Scout patrol is the finest boys' gang in all the world. The patrol is the unit that makes Scouting go. It is a group of boys, usually six to eight, who pal together because they like to do the same things." It's also right up front in the BSA's Troop Leader Guidebook. Chapter three. The words are a little less clear, but pretty much the same. https://www.amazon.com/Troop-Leader-Guidebook-Vol-1-ebook/dp/B07N92GJ58/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=Troop+Leader+Guidebook&qid=1552603046&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull ... "A patrol is a a semi-permanent group of compatible Scouts who elect their own leader. " Semi-permanent? Compatible? Group? I like the 1950s wording better. IMHO, the reason it might not be clear or we might not be happy is we all have different opinions how to make the patrol method work and what a patrol should be. For me and mine, I want a patrol to be friends that want to do things together. My view is a healthy troop drives from that. Others want the patrol to be a mentoring structuring leaving the tight friendships crossing patrol lines. Other debates about mixed-age versus same-aged patrols. Others about permanent or re-structuring patrols. Others about assigning boys in or letting them choose. Scouting is supposed to be simple. ... Side note ... I really wish my sons could have used an older style handbook. I like the 1950s one. I'm sure there are others that would be nice too.

Cool. I never knew that. That helps understand the details. Thank you ! I never understood that. Thank you.

That sounds consistent with our troop of mostly 16 and 17 year old scouts. They've done the advancement thing. It helped drive them when they were 11 to 13, maybe 14. Now, they just want to hang and do some cool stuff and do it together as friends. Ski. Camp. Game. Explore. IMHO, their adventures have kept them together.

I agree. LDS needs to be split out. Are they already leaving or mostly still there or ... Data analysis is really hard to isolate cause. When I see those numbers of only down 14,000 (approx) cub scouts, that's great news. I'd expect much worse with LDS stepping away. I'd expect LDS wards to immediately not recharter (units or individuals) as the program is imminently ending. Rechartering is thousands of dollars for large units. We need four to five years to see how the numbers work out.

Sad. Give it time. People will come around after realizing it's mostly a non-issue. Most scouters in my area are glad to support scouts who are girls. I don't see the issue at all.

#1 Deck of cards #2 Cribbage board

I like your idea. IMHO, it sounds like a great concept. IMHO, troops should offer a similar program for boys.

Nice write up. As the father of multiple sons, if I knew what I knew now, I'd skip the Lion and Tiger years too. They are just not ready and our family had enough stress starting the kid out in school. Also, my sons have no recollection of those years in scouts. Their memories really started when they got their pocket knives and started working with fire. I also agree. Parents have a hard time seeing the value of scouts when viewed from Lion and Tiger. Especially when compared to baseball, music, or any other highly structured program. As such, scouts is often the first to get cut. I really think that scouts would have strong recruitment if not stronger recruitment if started in second grade.

True. It would be interesting to learn. Another view is that kids can try baseball and other soccer and other things when they are younger. But then when they want something fresh, they can start with knives and fire and archery and bbguns in second grade. I'm not sure the right answer. But I do strongly question the idea of cub scouts in kindergarten just to avoid losing the second grade recruiting.

I think Barry has hit the real issue on the head. Then add X% of Lions continue to Tiger. The simple fact is the Cub program is long and repetitive. Scouts and families burn-out before reaching Boy Scouts. I fear we could predict troops hurting with the addition of Lion and Tiger. . If you assume the best annual retention rate of 85%, you need 100 cub scouts to feed a health troop size. If you assume a more real retention rate of 75%, you need a 210 cub scouts to feed a health troop size. If you did not have Lion and Tiger ranks, troops would be much more healthy. You would only need 72 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 85% retention You would only need 118 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 75% retention Of course, this all begs the question of the same number of families wanting to be part of the scouting program. I fear this is heresy, but not all ranks are equal. Scouts grow far more for each year they are in Boy Scouts than any year in Cub Scouts. We are bolstering membership numbers with younger ranks at the cost of having health troops where we can have the most impact on their lives.

8000 after just a month is pretty good ... especially considering a new troop had to be created. 77,000+ cub scouts last year. That's pretty good too. I was hoping it would be higher, but it's still good. This will take years to shake out to see the real effect. I would not stress or argue over the numbers at this point. At this point, the numbers are more curiosity than a useful fact.

SURPRISE: I've seen this occur before. Scoutmasters have lots to coordinate and are often not sure how to announce who's going to be on the ballot. Instead, the ballot can be a surprise to the scouts and they are surprised by who's on it. I've also seen scouts surprised by not being on it and the reasoning was the person who made the ballots didn't think they had enough qualifying nights. There was no chance for scouts to correct that. All the issues appear at the moment of the ballot. QUALIFYING: A good troop should have enough program to allow scouts to qualify for OA at the end of one year. A good troop will camp two nights a month and at least one week in the summer. Even if they take two months off, that's 25 to 31 nights of camping. I remember one year one of my sons had 34 nights of camping with the troop as we had two extended campouts that summer. FIRST YEAR: I assume the original poster meant scouts that were just finishing their first year or had just finished their first year.

No "gift". Accomplishments reflected on plaque or arrow.

We never charged for attending. B&G cost was covered by earlier in the year dues and fundraisers. B&G would be geared up or down depending on pack finances. I've seen the blue and gold cost the pack $1500 to $2000 for a really cool event. I've also seen it cost the pack $100 to $200 for a pot luck.

Divide what you are trying to do into categories to see if you have coverage. You could even look at the features of the above tools to create categories. Here are some common categories Communication ... Email, Texting, Calendar management ... Printable, subscribe-able, etc Document storage .. Forms, Pictures, Other Social media Advancement ... purchase orders, awards, rank Membership Finances ... Budget, dues, accounting This is what we use Scoutbook ... Default for all units ... Advancement, roster ... it's the official BSA data. Anything else is double work. Facebook ... Default for all units ... social media SOAR ... communication, email, document management Google documents / spreadsheets ... finances

My view is .... Personal growth ---> Introducing new experiences. Stretching comfort zones. Opening eyes to broader, more challenging experiences. Made up example --> Last year, we canoed for an afternoon on mild calm river water. This year we are taking a two day overnight river trip. Next year, we are spending a week canoeing the Lewis and Clark path. Our goal is two years from now to do a white water Colorado river experience. Leadership Development --> We structure the program for the scouts to experiment with leadership and for the adult scouters to back off into the shadows. I absolutely view those as equal to the other six. I guess comes from one's perspective.

Every year I repeatedly see GSUSA uniformed youth selling cookies at BSA activities and events. It has always seemed like one directional relationship.

Much harder for all scouts period. I'm always surprised by the major difference of difficulty of the eagle merit badges. Some are significant work. Some are almost automatic.

My gut feelings... Swimming over Hiking Swimming MB is 9 times easier than hiking. Absolutely true ... I'm surprised cycling isn't more popular than hiking. Cycling MB is fun and can be a great troop program. ... But there are many back-packing troops. Env Sci MB over Sustainability Env Sci MB is not exciting, but a "sustainability" MB sounds duller than dull. I can't believe a scout would ever choose it. Troops have a history of pushing Env Science MB. Sustainability MB is newer. Emergency prep over Lifesaving I'm always surprised Lifesaving is not chosen more. If you have Swimming MB, Lifesaving MB is just a little bit more ... aka easiest path And Lifesaving MB is useful ... aka something to boast about And Lifesaving MB is in the water ... aka fun. And Emergency Prep MB can be very dull ... aka painful And Emergency Prep MB has parts that are just out of date / old / not useful.

I agree. But open the communication channel and find a way to manage the scouts and their commitment. IMHO, the original poster's situation is like popcorn in reverse. Buying popcorn is really a donation with popcorn as a thank you. In this case, the church is is donating $1000 to the unit, but they want 250 hours of free labor in exchange. At that point, you can't call it a donation or gift.