emb021

Building on what John-in-KC says, the first step is being knowledgable about what Venturing is and isn't. It does help Venturing when its self proclaimed advocates themselves don't fully understand the program. (not speaking about you, but have met others out there). The second, as just as important, is being aware of the WIDE range of Venturing Crews out there. Too often all people think of Venturing is Outdoors/High adventure crews. You need to be aware of examples of arts/hobbies, sports, religious life crews, and explain these to people. Even better, if such exist in your council.

Actually, the Jamboree Division invested in a registration software package, in the hopes the other divisions will pony up and use it. They hope the same system will be used for NOAC, PTC, High Adventure bases, etc. John didn't say they were already using it for the National Meeting registration. From what he said, the registration part should be good to go. So not sure the delay.

I know John Alline (the National Jamboree Director, ie, the pro at National in charge of the Jamboree) told me this past weekend they had the site 'ready to go' and their webadmins wanted to take it live. Frankly, in looking over it, most seemed there, but there was still some missing or outdated info (ie, stuff from last year). I guess they jumped the gun in putting it on-line. I think they are waiting until everything is a go with the on-line registration stuff, which they should be done with. That should be up in June, so hopefully between now and then it will be back.

"Is there any reason the toten' chip badge could not be placed on the left pocket flap?" Because it doesn't belong there? Very few items go on the left flap: Ranger Bar and the Emergency Preparedness, BSA pin are the only ones I know of. "Our council TCB is a flap patch. Our troop has it on the left pocket flap, which leaves the right for the OA patch and is a nice balance." The fact that your council created a flap is up to them. Your troop, however, should follow insignia policies. 'balance' isn't a good justification for wearing it where it doesn't below. I suggest you get a copy of the Insignia Guide. "Temporary Patch, Council Special patch? Why dosn't BSA just standardize it and give us a definate answer?" Because BSA National didn't make it? What difference does it make if its a 'temporary patch' or a 'council special patch'. They all go in the same location: the right pocket. It's up to the scout/leader which patch they put there. Else, put it on a patch vest, jacket, or blanket.

"Nowadays, a BSA venture patrol is a permanent patrol for boys aged 13-17. Surely folks here can offer plenty of ideas about doing a super-activity. But let's not describe a 2008 "venture patrol" as a loose temporary collection of boys from other patrols." 'Nowadays'? AFAIK, the original concept of the Venture Patrol still stands. I would have to pull out my SMHB and other materials and re-check it, but Venture Patrols are NOT permanent patrols. The page on Patrol Leaders at the National website says there are 3 patrols: 1. New Boy Patrols for 11-year olds 2. Regular patrols for those who are first class. 3. Venture patrols, which are OPTIONAL patrols for those 13 and up who do "more challenging high-adventure outings" Otherwise boys would only be in regular patrols for one year until they turned 12. Kind of silly, don't you think? And its clear the purpose of the Venture patrol is to do more challenging stuff.

">>Your description of your "temporary activity patrols" is basically Venture Patrols.

Varsity Scouting still exists. Today the LDS Church mainly uses it. The idea of using 'varsity scouting' within a troop was only around for a short time, and was merged into Venture Patrols. This is why today, Venture Patrols can do both High Adventure (which is what they were solely for) or Sports (which was the in-troop Varsity Team for). So its incorrect to say you can use Varsity Scouting in a troop. And who claim they do so are behind the times (by, oh, 15 years or so). John-in-KC gave the link to the Varsity Scout Fact Sheet. Should answer all your questions.

Eagledad- Your description of your "temporary activity patrols" is basically Venture Patrols. The only difference would be Venture Patrol members must be atleast 13 years old. That's about the age limit of the high adventure bases.

Ah, the Venture Patrol. Keep in mind that the Venture Patrol is NOT solely doing high adventure stuff. Venture Patrol are an opportunity for the older boys (13 and up) to organize into their own little group to plan and carry out their own activities separate from the rest of the troop. The idea is they re-org about every 3 months or so, for the duration of the planning and carrying out their own high adventure or sports activity. Those boys who choice to be involved in the Venture Patrol can (and should) remain in their regular patrols. They only form up with the VP for planning/carrying out the Venture Patrol activities (basically the planning and preparation for their activity and the activity itself). This means that for all regular troop activities, they are still part of a regular patrol and doing stuff with that patrol. This is why the venture patrol does NOT have a patrol medallion, but a Venture strip. (this strip is NOT a reward, but an identification of being part of the Venture patrol). The Venture Patrol elects a new Patrol Leader each time they re-org and work on a new activity. For instance, all the older boys would gather together to form a Venture Patrol. They would work on what they plan to do, and who will be the patrol leader. There may be some boys who decide to opt-out of the patrol for this activity, which is fine. For instance, maybe they decide to do a backpacking trip. So for the next 3 months the VP forms to plan and prepare for this trip, culimating with trip itself. Now the cycle begins again with the VP re-forming and deciding what they will do. Again, some boys will opt-out of this new activity. Maybe this time they decide to be involved with the local bowling league, leading up the league finals. So this time the VP activities are them participating in games for the league. And so on. As to equipment. A troop should only invest in group equipment for high adventure stuff, such as stoves, pots/pans, tents. Personal equipment, which includes backpacks, sleeping bags, etc, are the responsibility of the boys. Frankly, you can use a lot of this same equipment for regular troop trips, too.

"The reference to the picture refers to the 3 awards that are not square knots, and have no distinguishing color to show which the top and which is bottom. " If you get the latest editions of the Insignia Guide, most of the knots are shown in color on the back cover, so there is little excuse to not wear them correctly. The illustration that is used in the on-line version shows 4 knots being worn, the 4th centered.

What patch are you speaking of? The oval "where tradition meets tomorrow" or the new BSA 100 logo, which I wasn't aware they had made patches for? Frankly, there really aren't any patch companies making patches in the US. Every does them overseas and has been doing so for some time.

Yes it is. I have to say its yet another dull design, as have the last 2 jamborees. Let's see. Throw in the american flag, check. Throw in the BSA logo, check, throw in the BSA 100th logo, check. All done. National really needs to send some of their people to Rick Obermeyer's patch design course at NOAC... They seem more excited about the manufacturing process they are using then the design. It's similiar to the process used for the BSA-WSJ contingent back patch and the Centennial Unit award patches, but 'better'.

"Could that be the patch in the upper left?" Yes it is. I have to say its yet another dull design, as have the last 2 jamborees. They seem more excited about the manufacturing process they are using then the design. It's similiar to the process used for the BSA-WSJ contingent back patch and the Centennial Unit award patches, but 'better'. Doesn't appear that the registration site is up and running. Should be up in June.

I have to agree with OGE. I don't like the attitude I see from some unit scouters who think that if you are not a unit scouter, you are useless and don't contribute to scouting. There are many people who don't have the time or don't have the ability to be unit scouters, but who can and do contribute. I also don't like the attitude that if you want to be part of some of the higher levels of scouting (council, regional, national), that is more important that you can contribute financially (either out of your own pocket OR you have the connections that can contribute) then that you bring knowledge and expertise to the table.

Actually, I read the original article about the kid that ran in "Outside" magazine. (even saved the article). I never bothered getting the book or seeing the movie. I read a recent article about the whole thing that ran recently in NatGeo's Adventure magazine. Getting away from it all is fine, but putting yourself in danger is just stupid. I am reminded of the guy who recently (about 5 years ago) got himself in a bad situation and had to cut off is arm to get free out in the wilderness. He wrote a book about himself, and some have tried to tote him as some kind of inspiration, etc. etc. However, I read other comments about him from people who know him, that he has a history of basically doing stupid things that put himself in dangerous situations. I don't find that impressive or inspiring.

"Look out everyone. They are using subdued patches." No they aren't. Most scouting associations have fairly colorful uniforms and colorful patches. Heck, some groups have bright red, bright yellow, bright blue, etc uniform shirts. What is different about their patches is that most are much smaller then ours and are woven instead of embroidered, making them much thinner. But some are just as colorful and with as much stuff as ours.

This is not specificly aimed at Gunny2862. One of the big mistakes that people make when they interact on-line is assume that on-line interaction is just like interacting in person. This too often leads to people getting bent out of shape over said on-line interaction. Don't expect on-line conversations to be the same as in-person conversations. Don't assume the tone of the others message. Its usually better to have a thick skin with dealing with on-line communications. And if you do get bent out of shape, the best advise is to not respond immediately, but to wait atleast 24hr. There is a reason newbies are pointed to documents on netiquette and advised not to just jump into on-line conversations, but to read over them for awhile before contributing.

Only individuals may be presented with the James West Award. An individual may donate $1000 and get the Award. OR a group may donate $1000 to honor someone with the Award. For instance, many OA lodges routinely present 1 or 2 James West Awards to a member of the Lodge. The entire lodge does not receive the award, only that particular honoree.

Interesting site. Hope it grows as people give them info for it.

I'm still waiting for haiku.

AFAIC, a belt/buckle made by a BSA camp, BSA council, OA lodge, etc, is just as much a "BSA Belt" or "BSA Buckle" as the items sold by National Supply (scoutstuff.org, etc). In fact, I bet many of the belts/buckles sold by BSA camps, councils, and lodges came from National Supply. What is the big deal?

"And there's even Key 3 at unit level" In all my years of being involved with the BSA, I've never heard of any 'unit level key 3', either on-line or in-person. The term "Key 3" has always refered to either the OA or district/council leadership.

"- Do we go back to 3 or 4 years ago and count all the camping nights, bike trips, hikes, etc. and credit toward this MB?" I would. I would count from the day the boy became a Boy Scout. If this wasn't allowed, the requirements would say so (something like 'within the last 2 years' or the like). When I earned Camping MB as a boy, I sat down and figured out how many days/nights I had camped. "- One of the choices for a requirement is 15 mile or 4 hour bike ride. Is the 15 miles cumulative or all at once? Also, if they just go on say a 4 or 5 mile ride, but stop several times for POI's and it takes them 4 hours will that suffice or should it be 4 hours of actually riding a bike?" A bike ride to me would be a ride done in a single day. Stopping several times for POI is little different then stopping for a break (rest/potty) or stopping for lunch. I think it unreasonable to expect the ride to be continuous with no stops at all. I would, however, NOT count this non ride time in the '4 hours'. To me, the 4 hours must be ride time.

"What positions are these Key 3 people?" It depends on which Key 3. In the OA, the Key 3 are the youth officer, adult lay advisor (volunteer) and adult staff advisor (professional) at a particular level. There are Key 3 at chapter level (Chapter Chief, Chapter Advisor, usually DE), Lodge level (Lodge Chief, Lodge Advisor, Lodge Staff Advisor), Section (Section Chief, Section Advisor, Section Staff Advisor), etc, etc. In the BSA, the Key 3 are the commissioner, elected leader, and professional at that level. You have Key 3 from the district level up to national: District Commissioner, District Chair, DE; Council Commissioner, Council President, SE; etc etc

The Guide for Officers and Advisors (pg 21) gives the information on adult selection. Further, the FAQ section of the National OA site also gives info: http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/ As I recall, the troop committee selectes the troop adults to put forth. A troop can nominate 1 adult for every 50 youths selected for OA membership. Troop adults must meet the same camping requirements as the youth. Adults who work at the district/council levels can also be put forth for OA membership. They don't have to met the camping requirement, but am uncertain who puts them forth.